TJGladeRaider

I think most of us are honest, law abiding people, yet we are looking at a situation where gen manufacturers are having their trademarks blatantly infringed upon in violation of laws that most of us probably support, and we choose to buy these things. This is a very curious and fascinating subject for me. To me, and speaking just for me, I would never pass off a rep as a gen - that's not what this is about for me, and the exact opposite in fact. I buy these things as a sort of social/political statement, and the point I feel that they make is that the manufacturers of the gens are engaged in a grand, collossal, fraud. I wear a replica as evidence that the gen is a ripoff, an example of a carefully orchestrated scam perpetrated by the watch cartels (the government's term, not mine) who have manipulated the marketplace thru an illegal system of price controls. I say, "Look at this Pam 28 with it's 2892 movement and sapphire crystal and tell me why the gen cost fiteen or twenty times what I paid for this?" If someone could say that the gen has a real Swiss movement, the gen is waterproof, or the gen keeps better time, then they would have a legitimate defense, but virtually indistinguishable differences in crown guard or crown thickness are no justification for the price difference. The fact is, the gens are better watches - I do not dispute that - but the difference is more like twenty percent than two thousand percent. The rest is blue sky, empty marketing hype and price controls - a fraud that I like to see exposed. Why do you buy these things? Bill

I take it that you bought Joshua's "perfect" SD and you like it. I like mine too - I have a couple of them and the one I am wearing at the moment has a black genuine stingray band with a stainless steel deployment clasp. This is one of my consistent favorites - I cannot say that I have just one favorite as that tends to change from week to week. This particular SD is always in the top three. Bill

It looks like a nice watch, but you should compare the CGs to the "perfect" Sub Joshua is selling - Joshua's are milled down and the case is recontoured too. I can tell mine with my eyes closed just by the fel of the case and I have a few subs. Bill

Be aware that it isn't simple. The 2893 is not the same size as the 2836 and the people I have talked toi about this have not been able to do it for me. Bill

"Waste" $200? I think you are missing the point, but I think that is understandable if you're not a lawyer or a cop. By, "deliberate," he is suggesting that the whole thing was deliberate. Someone bought a watch and, unlike the anonymous complaint" that you reference provided authorities with all the evidence they need to pursue EL without making it clear that this was set up. If it was a set up, this would be smart because it allows law enforcement to explain having all the available evidence, while making it look like the guy who did it was just stupid - thereby leaving him clear to snag some more dealers. The facts certainly do not prove it was a set up from the start, but it is a possibility to be considered - especially since common sense says that investigators must be aware of these lists. Bill

Funny you should mention that Ken - your post mirrors my e-mail to EL. I think these forums should have a system whereby dealers report odd situations to one of the admin people. Chances are, if someone is working a dealer, they are also working the other dealers, which would not be clear to any individual dealer, but would be OBVIOUS to someone monitoring reports. For example, if three dealers report that a new buyer named ABCDE has asked for product return information, that would be a very red flag indeed. Bill

Prognostication is an inexact undertaking at best, but I'll share my predictions since you asked. I think the Guangzhou watchworks folks will continue to produce better and better product until the politics are such that China shuts it all down - and when they do, it will shut down because no government that I know of gets things done like the Chinese. To put this in perspective, I think we are in the same situation as we were in a few years ago when we were all having a wonderful time with Napster, WinMX, etc downloading all the music we wanted Peer-to-Peer. One day, we all went to sign on and it was over - the difference is, nobody we liked a lot got shot. That's my only real concern - I can take the replica thing or leave it, but I don't want to see anyone we do business with running afoul of the Chinese justice system (oxymoron). Bill

I use Brasso - but DO NOT use a power buffer. Brasso on a cotton ball will do the job in less than thirty minutes. Just rub hard in a circular motion and it will look brand new when you are done. Bill

Health problems? I think her reason for not being on top of things is a bit more "happy news" than that, but since nobody has announced anything, it's not my place. Ms. King is not going to screw you on the deal. Bill

Have a look I like natural shark, black shark and black stingray the best Bill

What I would like to know is, "How can you tell?" I can tell the difference between the ETA 2836 and the Asian autos I have seen easy enogh, same with the Valjoux vs Asian copy (I think), but I have no earthly clue how to know whether the Unitas handwounds are genuine swiss, or an Asian copy. With those, I depend on the Dealers I buy from, but one of the Dealers I buy from tells me that they accept the manufacturer's word s they wouldn't know the difference themselves. What is a true mystery to me is the lack of an Asian copy of the Rolex movement. Considering the fact that the reps are getting so good that a good copy movement would set the secondary market on its ear, I am surprised nobody has made that yet. Can anyone clarify - offer learned comment? Bill

Can you give me a link to the new gen - I like the look of that piece. Bill

If you check past posts, you will find that I argued precisely that same point. In fact, if you find the right post about SD's, you will find that some nutcase, who probably had a few too many beers that evening (or mebbe it was bourbon) made the statement that if someone reading his review of the watch he bought, and bought that particular SD from the same dealer he got his from, and then found it was not exactly what he said it was, he'd buy it from them at the purchase price. LOL Bill

A healthy dose of skepticism -- You're going to be just fine! You are quite correct, the sites you see all over the net that profess to be consumer oriented are generally bogus. The difference you will find here is, YOU can post, YOU can say whatever you like, and YOU will find yourself fielding the heat of stinging remarks in the event you get stupid - and the most common stupid is, "OMG, I have been ripped off, I sent my money to DEALER_ABC two weeks ago and I haven't got a watch yet." One clue - go to the various consumer sites and see if you find open conversation critical of the chosen dealers. Check here for example, identify a dealer who appears to be "In," and then see if anyone says anything bad about them - you will find that every dealer has some complaints. On the scam sites, you will find a far different relationship. Also, on a site like this, you will soon gat a feel for people's very, VERY different personalities. You will see pictures posted that are obviously the poster's real watch on their real wrists, or in some other situation that is obviously something they took. You will see posts of problems, where the same people, over and over and over take their time to try and help. Just read a while, look at pics, read reviews and shop for a DEALER. Once you have made a decision as to which Dealer you want to try, buy something from them and be patient for a few weeks until your watch arrives. This place is legit. Bill

Here is the watch I got from Josh, along with pics of the water drop test. He adamantly insists it is sapphire, and the water drop sure seems to go along witrh that. I wonder if Joshua will get an apology from he that declared that none of these crystals are sapphire. Sorry for the quality of the pics - no time to set up the light box. Bill

All I can tell you is the score so far: TJGladeRaider = 100+ US Customs = 0 When Joshua gets his true 45mm PO done, I am gonna risk it again too! LOL Bill

Wow, am I glad you are here. Not just everyone would proclaim that all the dealers advertising sapphire crystals on these watches are lying, and all the buyers who say they have verified theirs are fools. Since the only way anyone could actually be able to make such a statement would be to have bought a sample of them all, and nobody but a fookwit idiot would make such a statement unable to support it, I must commend you on your incredible investment on our behalf. Naturally, this bunch of slimedog thieves we deal with will try to impugn your credibility and suggest that you are such a fookwit idiot so please post pictures -- I am sure I speak for many of us when I tell you that I am standing by to be amazed. As I am beginning to have a modest little collection of my own, perhaps you could give me a few pointers so I too could be able to tell whether my other crystals are sapphire - absent your guidance and inspiration, I actually believed that Joshua had been honest with me on my Fiddy and the rest of this junk, and the way a drop of water beads up on front and back, like on a freshly waxed car, plumb confused me. I guess I'll just have to send them all back. Bill

Just to clarify - if some of these don't have sapphire, mine definitely does. I would think that having that much domed mineral glass on a wrist would be asking for trouble. Bill

I just got what appears to be that identical watch from Joshua - about like a wall clock with a belt! Awesome watch though. Bill

Today, I got a package from Verbal Kint - I bought his MBW. It was a fascinating experience. Sitting at my dining room table, I tore open the envelope - very bad idea. It turned out to be one of those padded envelopes that are packed with clothes dryer dust or something. What a mess. Inside, I found a mummy of wrapped tape - I unwrapped, and unwrapped and unwrapped . . . realizing that I should have taken pictures of this and regretting that I did not. Finally, I exposed what appeared to be a washcloth. Inside the washcloth, I found a smaller mummy of wrapped electrical tape - I unwrapped, and unwrapped and unwrapped and unwrapped and unwrapped . . . yes indeed, why didn't I get some pics. Inside, I found paper towels wrapped round a watch. What an amazing way to defeat Customs inspectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL VERY nice watch - thanks Robi. Bill

Oh, I see - you really didn't want to know where his POS came from so you could buy one for yourself - in truth, you were going to steer him to where he could get a better one. That makes perfect sense, but the only problem I have is, why didn't you tell us that to begin with? Why try to sell us on the [censored] story first? In other words Dude, you wanted to be a bully and slap this poor kid around who never did anything to you, force him to admit that he was full of [censored], acknowledge his efforts to lie, and admit the truth . . . To have some total stranger you never did anything to put you in that position really sucks doesn't it? Bill

Truly -- fookwits like that need to be in jail where they can experience a little buggery first hand. Bill

I don't ever try to pass a rep off as genuine myself - I can afford any gen of any rep I have, but I take pride in the fact that I didn't pay $5000 for a $500 watch and the privilege of being buggered by Uncle Rollie. The fundamentalist Pam [censored] who had the audacity to get in my face would be likely to get a spanking. I have no patience for insufferable twits. Bill