DocBotanus

I started getting into replicas last year, and finally got my first- a last generation SeaDweller- from Josh. I actually started out looking for a Sub to make into a "Bond" but that's another story. As you all know, this is an addiction, and I started turning my eye towards other divers, like gen vintage Omegas, but I started to fall prey to the rugged, simple Panerai.And you know where that leads... As a newbie, I am trying to educate myself by reading the forum, but any help would be appreciated. A couple questions- 1)Any recommendations for a particular site(or posts here) or book that would give me a good basic knowledge of the Panerai? 2)Any particulars to look for in a rep? I had tried to arm myself with knowledge when buying my Faulex; the SD I ended up with is (I believe) very nice, but it was also $300. I was looking at some reviews of other Rolex reps here, and found some very nice ones for $100. In fact, looking at the watchesla.com adverts on this site, I saw some SD replicas that look a lot like the one I bought. I'm not worried about what I spent-what's done is done- but can the Panerai reps on this (or other dealer's sites) be anything good at $70? Thanks for the advice, and wish me luck in my new addiction!

...it doesn't have the Brevet crown of the Bond either. As a claimed gilt face, shouldn't it have more "gold" appearance?

Since I haven't won the lottery, this will at least provide some good shots for when I ever do start trying to make my own FrankenBond.

Thanks for the advice- I was originally leaning towards the more expensive rep- assuming that the 316F ss would give a richer appearance than the 316 specced on the less expensive watch. That metal difference is what Joshua touts. I had some respect for his opinion, especially as we was not overly encouraging about a Paul Newman Daytona ( not really down on it, just noting that it is not top-shelf, but a beater that'll look OK- when was the last time you saw a gen on someone's wrist?) If there was a noticeable difference in person, I'd probably pony up for the more expensive one. As far as judging its accuracy, points well taken- to someone very familiar with these watches, a fake is easy to spot a mile away, just because it "feels" wrong. I was just looking for obvious errors. I am not sure what vintage this rep is attempting; I am just not that familiar with the SD. I bought a book on vintage (pre-1980) clones when I was looking for a Bond Rolex, and frankly that's the vintage I'd prefer. Unfortunately, the rep on Josh's site was not as good in the flesh. I assumed I'd end up distressing it, and having the markers redone, but as the pictures in a previous post showed, the whole face was painted in a lemon-cream yellow. Pretty crappy, and Josh has no replacement from another more talented maker. The point about the movement makes sense; I have no need to try to replicate a Rolex movement, since nobody will be looking in there anyway, and anyone of knowledge would laugh their ass off anyway. An ETA, original or knock-off , should be pretty reliable since they are so ubiquitous. On the other hand, the rattling "Swiss" movement in my first clone was DOA. I may very well order the second watch, with the Asian movement that I'd prolly get anyway. One more thought- I was going to get the Daytona for my dad, but how does this Milgauss look? I like it for something different, something more unusual.http://www.perfect-hour.com/000000rlm00102-milguass-green-sapphire-swiss-2836-p-6546.html

I've been away for a while-life and a new business will do that to you- and have been vacillating about choosing a replacement for the watch I sent back to Joshua(last summer I bought a "Bond" rolex from Joshua that was not exactly as pictured and had a dead movement)> I had wanted a replacement to go with the Corvus watch strap, but Joshua tells me he has issues with this watch's supplier. So... I started looking at the Sea Dweller- the watch I fell in love with in college- and had narrowed it to a few on perfect-hour.com. The two I've narrowed it to are http://www.perfect-hour.com/rlsd00089-super-dweller-black-asian-3135-p-7921.html http://www.perfect-hour.com/rlsd10003-super-dweller-black-swiss-28362-p-3585.html I am not exactly sure which style/era SD these are a replica of, so I can't fairly assess their accuracy. I was considering the second watch, with Asian movt at $50 less(my other Swiss ETA was doa after all), but Joshua tells me the 316F stainless of the $298 rep is in a different league. So, I am asking the indulgence of the experts here- which model is this, and is it a convincing replica? Do you think the Asian Rolex-copy movt is a poor choice over the common 2836? Are there obvious flaws in these copies, and which would you choose? Thanks for your help!

I have noticed a lot of the gen Subs out there(along with other watches with painted bezels) have had their originally black paint fade to a kind of dark metallic brown. SInce I was planning to vintagize my 5508 when I get it back from Joshua, I was thinking of some quality time in the sun(or under a bright halogen light might help take the new off the bezel. I would cover the face to avoid too much quick fading there. Has anyone tried that? I did a search, but came up empty.

Contacted Josh- waiting to hear back. Let him know his suggestion to tap watch in my palm did not help.

Bad news- I unscrewed the crown, and deeling slight resistance turned the stem clockwise about 40, then 60 turns. No movement in the second hand at all. When turning I could hear a soft wining noise in watch. Pulling out slightly more, stem turns freely, a liitle more, hands move - so I know I was in right winding position. I guess it's going back to Josh after all. As I've written, I was very disappointed in the face, but I had decided to take that as an invitation to mod. I guess I should have taken it bake as a sign to return it in the first place. Oh well. I'm just disappointed my first venture in the hobby is a dud. By the way, when I unscrew crown, motion pressure on the stem makes the whole face(and movement inside) move slightly, and I can feel the movement click against the inside of case. Not a good sign I take it. I'm unsure of whether to try this style again, or go more recent. I suppose, based on Josh's reputation, this is a fluke. I would also guess that most dealers in the Orient get their watches from a few suppliers, so when I'm shopping, I'm shopping dealer rep as much as anything.

As I have posted in the Rolex area, I am keeping my Rolex 5508 rep from Joshua with future mods in mind. I just don't know how to start it. I loosened the crown, gently pulled on stem to set time then screwed crown back down. I assumed it would start with motion, but no dice. I unscrewed again, after reading about manually winding, but I don't feel a middle position in stem where I am sure I am winding( I felt slight resistance, but was afraid I was at top thread of stem and did not want to strip.) Help?

Well, I think I will keep it. The 5508 from Josh is not exactly what I expected, but I am trying to be realistic. My goal is to try to get it to pass to the casual observer- not to fool anyone here. My intent was to get a Bond sub, and this seemed the closest to the Goldfinger sub.I'll be doing it myself, as I am unfortunately rarely afraid to get in over my head, and I have a very tight budget. Therefore, parts modification is the rule except where replacement is the only option. I am bowled over by the modded reps here so they will serve as my inspiration. I don't expect to achieve anything like bertieng's gorgeous Bond Sub; truth be told, if I had the 4K that cost, I'd probably buy my first gen. I have tried to absorb the knowledge here, but it is massive-if I do not give credit when referring to someone's work it's simply that I forgot where I read or saw it. I am posting some new pics of the watch, with my ideas or observations and questions based on my limited knowledge. Any input is appreciated! "Be brutal, be brutal!" PS With the time I have been spending here my wife is beginning to think I have an online girlfriend-or am avoiding other projects in the house. 1) The case itself- I am not sure how accurate this is- I gather the 5508 should have a thin case, and I measured 6 mm. I understand the lug holes should be a bit larger? The case itself could use some scuffing to look worn. I recall some placing a naked case in a can of pebbles... 2) The crown- It seems proportional to the case, but I understand that a true Bond would have the Brevet crown. Should I leave alone, and any rec'd source? 3)The bezel- Compared to gens, I think that the notches on the coin-edge are light(at least it is not a later type bezel). They don't go all the way top-to-bottom, but I have seen drawings/photos of gens that don't either. Deeper notchin would be a tedious possibility, but a recent thread makes me think bezel removal is fraught with potential disaster. At least the numerals are a proper square font. I see the pearl referred to a lot, but I am not sure what makes a gen look that way. 4) the crystal- It is slightly domed, but I suspect not enough. I gather that is easiest to replace from inside with the guts out and the bezel in place? If I replace it is there a source like the UK's Cousins? and saving the worst for last... 5)the face- As much as I can tell, the 5508 never had anything but a gilt face-correct? But since Josh told be this is the only rep face available, I guess I will have to mod it. I have no prayer of touching the typeface, but I think a repaint of the markers would help a lot. I have many fine brushes, a set of surgical telescopes and a steady hand, so I'll try it. The hands have a more yellow-green creamy color. I would like a more luminous dial- are there any retail sources for Super Lumina? If not, any favorite formulae for doctoring? I should also note that the black dial face looks like a very satiny black paper- it has no real sheen or texture. Is that correct? One last question- any suggestions for a complete basic set of tools should contain? Any favorite sources? Thank you all so much for your encouragement! PS That is still the cling wrap on the bracelet, which I had posted previously, is to be replaced with a Corvus strap(20mm- I felt funny understrapping).

Well, I've contacted Josh, and he says send it back. He ascribes the difference in appearance to the photo on his site; I am assuming that he is merely a broker for these watches, but he says that his source is the only maker of these dials("this is the only one on the market") has no other options. This is definitely a different dial than the one on site, but I am on the fence what do do-just jump in and start modding or exchange for a different model- or return it and save my money for a higher quality rep? The later models with crown guard are obviously more plentiful, but I kind of had my heart set on a 50's vintage no-guard. So if this is as good as it gets in a budget vintage maybe I should just jump in. Thoughts?

Thanks to all for the pix and responses- the gens and the vintagized reps are a huge help, as well as the detailed info. I put the watch away to avoid looking at it, as the perspective of a couple days really helps. I looked at it again, and it isn't as bad as I first felt. Exepting the incorrect bezel, a little scuffing would work wonders, but I think the dial is FUBAR. I don't think an aging stain on the dial markers would help(BTW, nicely done josevancouver- and I didn't think it looked too bad before); the yellow is too candy-colored to mute with stain, the way a bright white or an off white can be made darker like in the pix of the genuine articles(thanks Omega 007). Freddy333, the case looks very similar to the one you show- at the edge the case is 6mm, the crown(measured on the teeth) is 6.6 mm. Where would you suggest as source for a coin edge bezel? From the photos here it looks like there was some variation in the Subs' dials - either gilt or painted, but it looks like all used paint on metal hour markers. I've contacted Josh, so I'll let you know what happens. BTW, I just received the Skeet/Urul volume on Vintage Rolex Sports Models, and I can't wait to dive in. You know you're getting old when you look forward to a new watch book like you did your dad bringing home the new Playboy when he stopped at the pharmacy on the way home. Of course I just read it for the cartoons and articles, just like dad.

I did not expect a rep that would fool an expert (or for that matter the vastly more experienced members of this board)- I was just trying to find something reasonably in line, that would not stand out as a rep. The bezel did not bother me too much- from what I gather, the lettering is not bad, but the bezel on a gen would be coin-edge. I could live with that. What bothers me is the face more than anything -even with my limited experience, it looks "fake" even from 5 feet. I am afraid that even toning down that color will not help. Before I complained to Joshua, I wanted to make sure the color was never a gen color. From all I've looked at. the Subs from that era had either gilt or an off-white( originally brighter white?) markings on the face. ALthough it maybe hard to tell from my picture, I think the lettering seems a bit small as well. The reason I bought this watch was that I felt the pictures on the site looked pretty good(see below), and Josh's good reputation here. PS The bracelet was always on the endangered species list, as I ordered a Corvus "Bond" band at the same time.

Came home late Friday- the watch was here. My heart sank a little when I saw the dial. As I have mentioned in a cross post in the review area, The printing is crisp, and the watch, other than lacking the red triangle at "0" (I prefer this) looks pretty good, except.... The paint at the hour markers is an almost fluorescent yellow- like a 77 Corvette. I was expecting a creamier yellow(looking aged) on metallic markers, or even the soft whitish/green/yellow as in pictures on Josh's site. The lettering and minute ring/markers seem closer in color to a whitish yellow- definitely not a crisp white. The lettering is small and crisp enough that it's hard to say if the large yellow bits are influencing my perception of color. Though he has a good rep for after sales issues,I have not contacted Josh, because I don't want to cry wolf. I've been trying to find photos of vintage Rolex to find out if the hour markers should be gilt and to see if such a color hour marker existed. I have not seen anything other than white (or orange on later military models). It seems that the transition to paint vs paint on metallic markers was somewhere in the 5508 line, but I am confused now. If the coloring is accurate, I can live with it-at least until I crack it open to repaint LOL. I have to say, the coloring makes it seem like a fake to me(which of course it is). Ahhh. One step forward, two back.... BTW, it is still wrapped in the cling wrap it shipped with. This picture is the best I could do, having no macro lens.

Thanks for the warm welcome! I live in the Nothwest suburbs, and the Rolex here is quite common; that's part of the reason I chose to go with the vintage look( that and my natural inclination to appreciate older things- cameras, cars, radios etc). As I've posted in another discussion, I jumped in and ordered my first rep from Joshua- a Bond Rolex, and I've already ordered a Corvus "real Bond" strap. Can't wait, and communication from Joshua has been encouraging. Speaking of old cars, are any Chicago area members going to the Oakbrook car show tomorrow. It's a Father's Day concession from my wife who is bored silly by car shows. I tend to gravitate towards 1930s+ domestics, and 50s-60's in particular. The show in Oakbrook has some beautifully restored autos- an indication what money can buy. A curious phenomenon that I've noticed at a lot of cruise nights is the stand-offish(socially inept) behavior of a lot of car people. It's unusual, because most people really into any hobby tend to be very enthusiastic and friendly(like the people here), especially when you show an interest in and respect for their accomplishments and toys. Anyway, Happy Father's Day to all!

To those who have bought from Josh, did you use a prepaid CC, your regular CC, the Paypal generated CC # or some other method? In regard to the case not having lug holes(which the original obviously did), is that a newer development in these reps? Has anybody else seen a rep closer to the original in overall appearance?

Since the photos are the same, save the digital watermark of the site name, I wonder if in fact both are Josh? Thanks for the encouragement! Even a casual reading of posts here hints at the addictive nature of this hobby. I get the feeling heroin would be easier to kick! I have a feeling when I get my first rep, that will only be the start- I see a future of evenings spent modding. My wife always accuses me of "never leaving well enough alone". My father-in-law likes collecting watches -low-buck gennies- but did make one venture into the world of reps with some cheap Sub from Chinatown. He does have some expertise with watches, having in a younger life, worked on mechanical watches as a hobby. He has jeweler's loupes and a pretty decent set of tools. Hmmmmmm... time to rekindle an interest. One thing I intend to do in terms of modding is making my rep Sub at least shower and pool worthy. I think I have some reading for tonight-

Looks like the same watch here-http://www.jpc8118.com/rlsv10014-vintage-model-5508-black-swiss-28362-p-3285.html

Well, I've been trying to absorb some of the lodes of knowledge here, and I have to confess, my brain is starting to hurt. The encyclopedic knowledge I have seen among posters here- and I'm just concentrating on the Submariner- is amazing! Now , to what brought me here in the first place- the watch I found for sale as a rainy Saturday afternoon viewing of "Goldfinger" rekindled a dormant desire for a Sub. A Bond Sub.(BTW, when I firs saw Goldfinger as a drive-in triple feature bookended by FRWL/Dr No, I realized that Sean Connery/ James Bond was just about the coolest guy ever. That opening scene, where Bond tosses the bad guy in the tub with the sunlamp is the epitome of cool.) http://www.flyingzg.com/vintage-submariner...836-p-2976.html I know it does not exactly match the model numbers often called "the Bond Rolex" but it's one of the closest I have seen. Whoever the original belonged to(Cubby?) I think we can assume it's a genny. The discrepancies I can spot( and as someone else here has quoted, the factory used what they had and some discrepancies exist from the factory)compared to the screen cap from Goldfinger: 1)the crown stem seems small on the rep 2) the red triangle around the pearl 3) the hash marks between the pearl and 15 It doesn't look too bad, but as I mentioned in my intro post, I have no knowlege of the seller. I got a prompt email response when I asked about purchasing an accessory NATO band with the crown on the buckle(intending to transfer it to a Corvus Bond band) but was quoted $80 for a cloth band! It seems even among the best dealers here, there is somebody who has a gripe, and all dealers are like mutual funds- past performance is no guarantee... This watch about fits my budget, but I am leery of paying by CC with someone I have never heard of, nor has anyone else. BTW, does this model normally come with the dome crystal?

I know- not as exotic as some of the other locations, but "Hello" from Chicago nonetheless. http://image.rwg.cc/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif I'm looking forward to diving in, having found this group after a search for reps turned up the archived old group's discussions. I was excited at the prospect of this trove of knowledge here and that fact that there were people out there modding their reps! Too cool. I suspect like a lot of others, I got interested in reps because of an interest in the Rolex, without the funds for a genny. I remember twenty years ago, on the verge of graduation, looking at a SeaDweller at a local jeweler, thinking "When I'm working..." I still am waiting, and with kids, a mortgage on a home and a business property, etc the discretionary funds are still not there, but the want still is. I am a replica virgin- save for a brief dalliance with a really awful gold President a college friend gave me. Its brassing came off in a month, and it's quartz movement was junk, but it fooled a few teachers, whose eyes were fixed on it during an after-class discussion. Like I said, my first real love was a Rolex diver, and a recent reviewing of the Connery Bond movies renewed my love. Now I'm in pursuit of a replica Bond Submariner, dateless and crown gaurd-less. I found a pretty good looking rep on a Chinese site that seemed pretty well done-other than the gushing testimonials on the site that were riddled with laughably bad broken English. I hesitated before I gave any CC number, and decided to investigate further. And that's how I'm here. The site I looked at (flyingzg.com) could be fine, but who knows. It seems as though there are quite a few "matches" made here on the site, and that seems a pretty good way to go. In any case, I'm looking forward to some reading, and hopefully the chance to contribute.