mengshi

This is an excellent post and I highly appreciate it. Great Christmas present! Now I see the reasons behind the prices but more detailed analysis like yours is needed (Are they in the reviews here?) especially when the replica bridges are added. Your post put a bit more perspective in the article in Replicawatchreport in which The Zigmeister took an Asian 6497-2 apart (Link: http://www.replicawatchreport.com/articles/watchmasters-corner/new-movement-for-replica-panerais.html). Having reread the above, I think the whole movement may be a complete Chinese replica with the modified bridges given the less than Swiss like finishing although the conclusion was that the clone 6497-2 is quite good. So the question now is does DSN put a genuine Swiss 6492-2 with modified Asian 'Panerai" bridges to make it a hydrid? Incidentally, the movement in mine is a high beat one with the Cote de Geneva engraving but without the Officine Panerai word like the one on the right side. All I need now is to find a friendly watchmaker who will overhaul and properly oil it as well as give it a proper timing adjustment. Also may need to change the dial as I'm not happy with the lume. May just change it to a homage as there is less pressure to be 'perfect' Ha ha.

So your 6497 has a swan neck? How can the burden of proof be on me when I have no physical contact with your watch and you're the one stating yours has a genuine movement? I don't see the logic. Also, how can it be on my expense when I'm haven't spent the kind of money he charges for his watches? There are many more Ti owners here who certainly have bought a 'cartel' case. I'm certain mine is a Ti. Those who are not certain may try scratching and oxidising theirs. I have said several times in my previous posts already regarding DSN, namely: 1) He is making false claims about the source of his 'swiss' movement but somehow this is 'overlooked' as OK. He may or may not have put genuine ETA in his special custom made models but the photos he put up showing his "Swiss" movement are showing the same Asian 6497 with the PANERAIPANERAI engravings or the other one with the engraved pattern. 2) His prices are way too much for something whose value does not increase. 3) I NEVER say he'll take your money and run 4) As you have indicated yourself above, somehow his 2 rights do make a wrong OK! End of the day, it is still a 'market economy' as he'll charge whatever the market is willing to accept, like one of the rep watches he sells for US$820! I once read an interview with a CEO of a luxury watch company who stated that there is really nothing rational about buying a 100,000 dollars watch. It seems this is happening in the rep world as well! Another thing I read is that as a rough 'rule of thumb', a Swiss watchmaking company gets about 1/3 the selling price of the watch at the dealer. This accounts for the advertisement, marketing, sponsoring etc etc. Now, lets say a gen Pam111 is US$ 3800. 1/3 would be about US$1266. If you imagine buying from DSN as buying directly from the watchmaker, and at US$820, he is almost charging the same price as a genuine item, all this without the quality control, water resistance, inherent value etc. This boggles the mind and you don't even get the nice box.

You have a really strange way of justifying things which is not rational at all... Here is my rational take. The rep I got is most likely a so called 'cartel' product. How many cartel Pam rep do you know that are actually made of aluminium? I know of none. I bet the case I got was probably from the same maker who made Getat, JacksonTse and Helenarou cases and I don't see them selling aluminium cases or anyone accusing them of doing so. Even the brushed SS case which most resemble aluminium in texture are never called aluminum let alone the Ti case which has a different feel and color tone. It IS fantasy model and not Pam005 as another poster has correctly pointed out and I purposely went for it BTW, does your 6497 have a swan neck? If it does, I may actually have the last laugh. If it doesn't, it is a US$134 product at Ofrei.

Had another look at the pictures. I think it is the macro mode on my digicam (non-slr) that gave the bezel or whole watch a slight bulging look. (Kinda like the pics on Jackson Tse site).

Very sharp of you to note that it is a fantasy model - just waiting for it to become not a fantasy. Ha ha. I will need side by side comparison of the bezels as I have not paid attention to this. The case back is rather generic and does not have serial numbers. Is there such a rep out there that actually replicate the actual correct model number and serial number ? (eg 009/1000). Is there a detailed review and comparison of his reps? I have only seen the pictures he posted of his reps on one of the sites (can't recall which). The CP were all done right but not sure about the CG. To see any difference, there would need to be a side by side comparison with a gen and a typical similar rep.

I just like to reiterate the point that I think the prices charged for some reps are a lot more expensive than what it is suppose to be. BTW, getting a gen Pam - this has crossed my mind. The Pam111 costs RM14000 here which works out to be about US3800 at the exchange rate of 3.6. Is a rep worth 10% of a gen? I think not. The most is 5%. The problem with getting a gen here is the darn waiting time and the whole country gets a handful a year!

Please don't take me for a fool... There are a few ways to check, one of the quickest way is to just flick at the crystal with your finger nail. The mineral glass crystals will emit a high pitch 'clink' whereas a sapphire crystal makes a rather dull "thud". It is easy to try this out with loads of reps at the sellers booth. The more scientific way is to use a crystal tester. I was wearing my genuine swiss diver and the dealer compared the different reading between his mineral glass reps and sapphire reps and my watch. The sapphire on my rep went to a higher level of red than my swiss diver (don't know what this mean - thicker?). The mineral glass went to the orange level. The last way is to try the water drop test but this is not going to endear you to the dealer.

Clearly you are incapable of reading my posting properly....

There is still much to learn and I hope you don't make stupid comments like this anymore. Are you gonna tell the professors he/she has no more use of the library?

Here you go. No time to take good ones as just came back from work and need to go out soon. One of the shots I try to show the "lens" effect. Some sites say that this is common with reps but I went to try out a 44mm genuine Panerai daylight and the lens effect is there even on a gen. Much less on the 40mm gen Panerai. On mine Only can appreciate it at a rather acute angle perhaps 10-15 degrees. I think the CG pin is nothing to really complain about and from the back it is rather good!

Just frowning on his claims of using Swiss made 6497 with swan neck. Would be OK if he called it Asian 6497. Would you buy a car from someone who claims that the car is using a Mercedes engine when it is not? He also did post a few photos of his watches including the movements in one of the rep forum and they clear show the Asian 6497 movement with swan neck with fake 'engravings', moreover, he kept claiming, at that time, that this movement will soon run out etc, hence justifying his prices. Once the prices went up and the 'market' somehow accepted it, it never came down. Hook, line and sinker. Anyway, being from where I am (Malaysia), there are street markets (tourist area) and even some shops in a big shopping center selling reps. The quality varies and I can tell you that some of them are darn good. You just need to do the leg work and bargain. And read the forums to look for flaws. From what I have seen and handled, having the swan neck movement is very common now and no one charges extra for it. Ditto for the 'engravings'. Options for sapphire are available depending on stock and most sellers will teach you how to test for it and they even have a device to test it. None of them do customization or sell parts as expected. As a measure of the price I paid, I got a titanium rep with sapphire crystal, solid titanium case back, handwind movement for approx. US $72. after bargaining down. The crown guard and pin is done impressively well and tight. I think it even has a tall cannon pinion as it looks nearly flat - probably just needs one of the hands filed down slightly to look right. My main complain is just the lume which is rather poor. The use of the Asian 7750 movement is not uncommon in this pool of Panerais if you know which model to look for. Yes, I know about the Asian 21J movement - Just a tap will stop the second hand momentarily, if you can live with that. The whole issue here is actually the quality control, my major nitpick being the loose crown guard. This is the main reason I'm hesitant buying online unless it is perhaps someone like Getat whom I have emailed asking whether he can ensure the GC is tight. For a price nearly 4x what I paid, I would expect not only a good lume but also a genuine complete overhaul of the movement and timing to make it super-reliable, but logically, buying a Genuine ETA 6497 (only 134 at Ofrei) would be a far better option. Cheers.

New here but has been going around the Rep forum for a while. Mainly interested in Panerais. I have come across DSN frequently and I have not doubt his reps are actually quite good. He was probably one of the first to fix the cannon pinion problem going by his pictures. However, I do find his prices are exorbitant for reps! The most uncomfortable I have been is the claim he makes that he uses Swiss Unitas/ETA 6497 with Swan Neck. As far as I know and have researched, only Panerai makes this mod and such movement is not available from ETA/Unitas. This makes him a crook and once a crook always a crook as he would still be using the Asian 6497 with a Swan Neck. He also makes claim that the display back has sapphire crystal. Has anyone ever confirmed this? Before anyone burn me, I'm not saying here that he'll take your money and not send the goods. No. For sending the goods, I have no doubt. So what makes his rep justify the prices?