freddy333

Considering that 'standard' Newman Daytonas are already selling well into (and above) the 50k range & there are only 8 known examples of this version of what is already the most sought after vintage watch in history, I think pricing would definitely fall into the if-you-have-to-ask-you-cannot-afford-it category. I think Clapton's red Daytona sold a few years ago for around $350k, and that was eons ago in terms of vintage Daytona pricing. I would guess upwards of a half million dollars or thereabouts.

Read the 1st pinned article at the top of the Rolex forum.

Ziggy -- I agree with you on the serial number, but any chance you could post a pic of the model number between the lugs?

I just found this on TZ And another comparing the 6541 & 6543

Nice find. Looks like an off the shelf MBW DRSD. I hope you got a good deal on it.

Good point. I also just realized that 1 of the ways the 6543 (which lacked the lightning bolt second hand) differed from the 6541 was that it is amagnetic, meaning that the critical components of the movement were comprised of anti-magnetic metals. Because of this, the 6543 did not require the magnetic shielding as used in the 6541. These amagnetic movements were then identified with the addition of an 'M', denoting their amagnetic properties. Checking the movement's magnetic properties could prove this 1 way or the other.

That could indicate a gen Milgauss movement, but Phong (and other aftermarket sellers) is more than happy (for a price) to engrave your pillar plate (or any other part of a movement) with the text of your choice. So the 'M', while helpful, proves nothing by itself. If the dial passed mustard, then little details like that would hold more water. But this watch has so many questionable issues that I remain far from convinced it is anything more than a nice franken.

Only the owner (or modder) of the watch knows the origin of the case. I can only guess based on the known sources of aftermarket cases (NDtrading being the most popular). What I do know for certain is that aftermarket cases for these watches are plentiful on the web & the gen watches are not. So, based on the discrepancies, I tend to assume the worst until proven otherwise. I think we will all know more if Ziggy can measure the case & post pictures of the model & serial numbers between the lugs.

POTR -- I think Repaustria was saying the same thing I am saying about the case -- there are alot of aftermarket Milgauss cases available, making the likelihood that this is 1 of those all that much better. Because of the rarity of these watches (very rare), I take the stance that it is a fake until proven otherwise. And based on Ziggy's pictures & description, the only thing I am convinced of, at this point, is that the movement is a gen Rolex movement (which was available in many Oyster Perpetuals of the period).

Dial is $480 from NDtrading right here And here is the $1,100 NDtrading case (click the image for the link) The caseback either came from another rep watch or someone else has a similar case with 6541 markings.

These pictures were posted on the zone a few years ago

Ziggy - I remain convinced that this is a franken (only gen part is the movement). But knowing the case diameter (minus crown) might help. I believe the gen is 37mm.

Ziggy -- I agree. It is a neat watch & I would love to have 1. But if you consider how easily some MBWs & Viet Nam-made cases accept gen parts, it does not surprise me that someone found a gen movement to fit this case (or modified the case (as most DW modders will attest) to make it fit the movement). Seek & ye shall find.

I suspect the case is a standard rep case & the owner (or modder) just spent a bit of time rubbing some end links against it to create the wear pattern between the lugs. The rest of the case did not look genuinely old to me, but I hear that Nanuq has a wonderful collection of coins available for 'aging' a case should it require more 'patina'. This is just a standard franken, like many of us do here. Since the movement was frozen, I would hazard a guess that the owner purchased the watch from someone like Phong or he had the work done for him by an independent modder.

Yes, I have never understood why they do that, but they always get at least 1 (usually simple & obvious) thing wrong. The idea that they do that purposely makes alot of sense when you see 1 of these (or Daytona dials).

Beater Monday

The dial is not a redial, it is a newly made aftermarket dial. Nothing gen about it. Here is the NDtrading 6541 (look familiar?)

I do not have any pictures of a 6541, but here is a gen 6543 From the movement picture above, it looks like the movement is gen (this movement was fitted to mid-50s Oyster Perpetuals) & may be correct for the 654x Milgauss, but the case is aftermarket, which translates to a franken. If you compare this case to Ziggy's, you can see that the cases differ in their thickness & in the way the stem is cut through the side. The only movement described for the Milgauss in Dowling's book is the 1580, but he only shows the inside of the later 1019 version. I have a few other pictures of Milgausses in my archive, but they are all the same as the 1 above. So my conclusion remains that the movement is gen & probably correct for this model, but the dial & case are both aftermarket, which makes this a franken.

To the best of my knowledge the Milgausses were fitted with a 1580, which is an anti-magnetic version of the 1570 with 1 extra jewel (I cannot remember where the extra jewel went). And unless you did a dial & case restoration, I would guess that it is a franken. But I am better with 1019s than this model, so I will check my photo archives to see if I can find a movement picture of that model & update this.

MeisterSinger N

That bench looks like a great find, unfortunately, I'm no longer in Motown.

I guess it is a good thing I checked in here before I made a mad dash out to Columbia this afternoon (I was on the other side of the world & would have had to 'fly' to make it to the GTG). This is the 3rd DC area GTG that did not pan out very well (1st was a year ago at Tysons mall & I was the only person who showed, 2nd was at White Flint mall a couple of months ago, but only DuDro & I showed up and this 1, which was canceled at last minute). May I suggest the next GTG be held at the same location as the 2nd GTG -- White Flint mall, which is centrally located within Baltimore, DC & NoVA. The mall is easy to find/get to (located right on Wisconsin Ave/Rockville Pike/Rt 355), it is rarely crowded (by mall standards), there are plenty of nice restaurants to meet at (PF Changs, Cheesecake Factory, Dave & Busters, to name a few) & there is always plenty of free parking within feet of any mall entrance. I would also recommend posting the initial announcement for a GTG in the General Discussion forum since more people would see it there.

1601 today (currently strapped)

It sounds like the movement is just in need of an overhaul (cleaning, lubing). Many 'new' reps contain used or improperly serviced movements. But what do you mean by 'Winding does nothing'? Do you mean the stem does not appear to be turning the gears when you wind it, or do you mean it winds but winding does not make the watch run? In the 1st case, there is a mechanical problem & the movement is probably not worth repairing (replace the watch). In the 2nd case, the movement needs an overhaul.

No. An appraisal by Rolex is the only fool proof way of determining authenticity. Anything else is a best guess, at best. Especially when you cannot physically open & inspect the watch/movement in person. Others will probably offer additional recommendations, but I would say the things I suggested should be considered the minimum requirements for making an online Rolex purchase when you are buying from a stranger (especially a stranger without any posted sales history of similar watches) & Paypal or some other 3rd party escrow service is not available.