coolchu001

I ordered the 16610LV from TC 2+ weeks ago and it finally arrived yesterday.

Who is TC and where can you buy it?

you can contact and visit his blog here:

http://tc-submariner.blogspot.com/

I ordered the 16610LV from TC 2+ weeks ago and it finally arrived yesterday.

It was packaged very nicely. It came bubble wrapped and sealed in a silver poly bag inside a small brown box.

Just for fun, I re-unboxed it in a Rolex watch shipping box.

I have many of these available, if you are interested in purchasing a Rolex plastic shipping box, shoot me a PM.

Anyhow, on to the watch reivew...

*Sorry in advance for any moisture, dust, or lint on the watches

Dial/hands:

The dial printing is excellent as usual with TC subs. The font and color looks great.

The marker surroundings are quite good for the round makers, but there seems to be a bit too much lume for the 12'o clock marker. I have an extra TC LV dial and its also the case with that dial.

The maxi dials have the same width for each of the surroundings whereas the 12, 6 and 9 markers are a bit thicker on the 16610LN models.

The hands are quite good, in these macro shots, you see a bit of extra lume around the edges of the hands. This is pretty invisible to the naked eye.

The dial and hands are superlumed. Sorry I didn't get a pic, but I can assure you it glows like gen!

CG/crown:

This has been covered in other reviews. Gen like CG shape. Excellent cut and finish. The crown is very gen like as well. I had a few gen crowns but I didn't even bother switching it. I think it's that good!

Date/crystal:

RSH pointed out that the DWO (v1 and v2) are a bit left justified. I can confirm that this is the case with both of the TC watches. The LV came with v2 DWO, the background color is more white, but the left justification is present. Its more apparent for numbers in the 20s.

vs

I also noticed at the TC crystal seem to magnify the date a bit too much.

The TC 16610LN has a Clark crystal installed and the magnification is similar to what I see on my gen GMT IIc. There is no LEC at 6'o clock. The crystal does have a softer edge than Clark's (TC crystal is more gen like).

Pearl/insert:

(gen insert on the LN version)

The pearl is excellent on this insert. It's superlumed and seems to have some sort of covering. The pearl surrounding isn't as neat as the gen pearl but its quite good. The insert itself has very accurate shade of green compared to the gen. I did notice that the triangle above the pearl is a bit thin. It has a small crease present. This crease is also on other member's TC LV subs that I've seen. The edges of the insert is pretty clean, but the outer edge is not painted or smooth like the gen (only seen when removed).

(moisture around 35-40 markings)

Bracelet:

The watch came with the V3 bracelet already installed with 1.8mm spring bars. TC also included 2 2.0mm bars. I decided to try swapping the spring bars and it worked flawlessly with the 2.0mm bars. The fitment with the 1.8mm bars had very slight play, its very tight with the 2.0mm bars.

The SEL fitment is excellent. It's even all around.

My only complaint about the V3 bracelet is the clasp shape and operation. I bought 4 v3 bracelets from TC and each of the clasp caps open and close differently from one another. Either its too tight or too loose, but its easily fixed.

I do however think the clasp from the V2 has a more accurate shape. As seen in this photo, the clasp's corners are not "square" enough. It has a tapered look to it. I tried finding pictures of a gen clasp with this shape but almost all of them have sharper corners. The V2 clasp did not have this flaw (although the coronet and swissmade was incorrect).

The backside looks pretty good as well. The next version should thin out the backside of the SEL piece so that its flush with the casing.

Here are some more pictures my TC 16610LN (gen insert, clark crystal, still has the v1 dwo, v3 bracelet & clasp) and the newly acquired LV

This is a stunning build. Great choice with the 3714-82 dial on the stainless case. The SS case makes the dial pop more than the RG version!

I haven't shown my collection to the community since joining. Here's what I currently have. What other watches would be a great addition? I really want a nice IWC ;-)

Top: TC Submariner v4 w/ gen insert; Gen GMT IIc; 292K Ceramic; 380N; AP Diver V3

Bottom: 029M, Casio DW6900 w/ inverted display; Casio GW6900A w/ inverted display; Casio Frogman DW9900; Casio Frogman DW8200

TC Submariner v4 w/ gen insert; Gen GMT IIc (my first gen Rolex)

292K Ceramic; 380N - (H Factory)

AP Diver V3 (N-factory) - My latest addition gets the most recent wrist time!

Casio Frogman DW9900; Casio Frogman DW8200; Both new/never worn! Took me a while to find these in new condition!

Casio DW6900 & GW6900A both w/ inverted displays (simple polarizing film)

029M (N-factory) The dial is just simply stunning on the 029!

Thanks for looking!

wow amazing watch and craftmanship! What's the cost for one of these?

PAM111M Noob is double AR. The Gen is single AR. (PAM111N Noob is single AR)

There are two version of the 111M

earlier ones have the single AR

then the later M series had double AR which is NOT colorless

The newer N series has the same single AR as the earlier 111M

pics?

interesting discussion -

there are only 2 accurate cases available - the one that BK sells and the TC

imho the weak point on the TC case is the bezel - the rest is better than the BK case.

the bezel can be replaced - the lower crown position on the BK case is sadly not fixable.

cheers,

Frank

The first TC I got (one I reviewed) had a bezel that with less deeper teeth (like the Z series sub I posted above). However the 2nd and 3rd one from him had the deep teeth; same as the BK TW (like the M series above, and my franken TC).

Count me in for 4; its a big difference when place side by side next to a BK DWO; difference is minimal once installed.

one thing i noticed about the TC recently that bothers me is that little shelf of metal between the screwed down crown and the bezel ring. if you showed me this watch in person and said it was gen i would have strong doubts based entirely on that.

That shelf of metal you're talking about is what makes it the most gen like sub out there...

Here's a gen M series:

Another from a Z series gen:

Here's my franken TC V series:

hopefully the custom SEL link is coming soon

that looks great! almost perfect!

hope the movement wasnt in it when you did this

Certainly not

Thanks, did you have any issue getting the retaining ring back on over the gen crystal and gasket?

Yes it was much more difficult than putting stock components onto the watch. I actually had issue using a case press since it would never evenly press the retainer in place. I ended up using a case die along with a block of wood and and gentle swings of a hammer. However, it was easier on my first TC watch, so I would say this may also be due to the manufacturing tolerances.

Nice height coolchu. How's the date magnification at this level?

Looks spot on with gen (26):

It looks good. I'm hoping my gen with 2.7 cousins gasket looks ok. How does the Clark crystal compare with gen in terms of overall appearance ?

left has gen crystal and insert; right has clark crystal and insert

Looks very close in front view. Upon closer examination, the gen crystal's top is has a slight curve to the beveled edge.

Does the insert make a difference to crystal height? Rep or gen?

Yes it does, the stock TC insert is a bit taller than the gen insert so it makes the crystal appear a bit shorter.

I've installed several different combinations of Clark crystal with various gaskets. The Clark crystal with Clark's 2.5mm is like the stock TC height (too short). The Clark with 2.7mm is a bit better but still not at the same height as gen. The Clark with 3.0mm is pretty much spot on with the gen crystal and gen gasket. I also have a TC with gen crystal and the TC crystal gasket but this is a bit too tall. The best combo is either Clark with TC gasket, or a 3.0mm.

Here are some picture of a TC with Clark crystal on TC gasket:

I asked the Clark seller on ebay about the crystal height (1.8mm vs 2.0mm). He says that with the supplied 3.0mm gasket, the combined height is exactly the same as a gen 295-c2 with gen gasket. This is because the groove on the Clark crystal is 0.2mm higher so when combined with the gasket it creates the exact height as gen. He also says that in 1-2 months time, a 1.8mm thickness version will be released.

I would go with a TC if you plan on installing additional gen parts such as an insert or crystal.

The TW is better out of the box.

Looks really good to me.

How about installing the gen Insert?

Was it a straight fit?

It looks like it must grind on the upper side to sit recessed on the bezel.

By the way the bezel looks like the TW and WM9.

The gen insert takes quite a bit of force to snap in. I followed these instructions:

http://www.vikbobil.se/bezel.html

Instead of a table, I used a die from a crystal press.

its sure the same fabric that did the WM9s or TWs - i don't understand why no other dealer offers them ?

i find TCs prices too high vs the absence of communication - at least the prices i got (600 for the parts) - sadly Prec Time is not around any more - he sold the watches as PT Supreme for around 350 Euro?

cheers,

Frank

I believe if you buy the complete watch, TC will give you a final price. Mine was $500 shipped in the US.

I got this watch a few days ago. I know this watch caused quite a stir. In fact, BK has dubbed this case as the WM9 v4! I wasn't in the rep game when WM9 was in business, but from the looks of it, this particular case is very well made. I will do some side by side vs the TW. The TW sub needs a DWO and tube at the moment...

Here's the complete watch with gen insert installed on V2 bracelet.

Case:

The casing is nicely polished and cut. The edges of the casing isn't as sharp as the BK TW, but it feels more like my gen GMT's case edges.

The case engraving is correct for the model. The case back teeth also looks well defined. It comes with a protective sticker too just like a gen watch .

Although it has the rehaut engraving (which I really don't mine, barely visible at arms length), which some do not like, it can be easily removed. The serial is engraved at the 6'o clock position as well as between the case lugs. Members also pointed out that the serial numbers are changed from case to case. A member suggests that the last 3 digits are changed.

Here you can see the engraving between the case lug. It's not as deep or clean as a gen, but its much nicer than the engraving than the TW case. No misspelling here .

Bezel:

As pointed out previously, the teeth on the bezel is not as deep as it should for a V series. The TW bezel is slightly deeper, but again it's only noticeable side by side (we are talking about fractions of a mm depth).

The bezel takes gen inserts without mod. At first I found it was a bit difficult to snap in the gen insert, I resorted to using a nylon die from a watch case press. Once in, the insert stay secure without sliding.

The bezel lip is slightly above the insert.

The bezel assembly has gen construction just like the TW sub.

The bezel rotates quite nicely. It's firm but not too tight and has good consistency.

The stock insert is a bit taller than the gen insert. With the stock insert, the crystal appears to be shorter. They both snap in securely. The stock insert is not too bad in terms of printing and font, but the pearl on it is quite awful. A pearl mod or gen insert is a must.

Crown Guard:

I think this has one of the best <acronym title="Crown Guard">CG</acronym> out there. The shape looks very close to a gen V series. The length is correct (covers 1/2 the height of the crown). The cut is very clean and polish does not dull the edges.

Here you can see the cut is more shallow (the crown is further away from the bezel), which is one of the suggestions BK gave to George on future improvements.

Crown:

Here you can see the crown also sits a tab bit higher than the TW. Only a few people would know this! But then again, this may be important to some.

Movement:

This particular watch has the swiss ETA 2824 movement. The winding is smooth, I haven't gotten a chance to test its power reserve since I've been wearing it since I received the watch. You can see this is a genuine ETA, the finish and engraving is very clean.

The movement is also mounted in a way that's different than most reps. There is a retaining ring that goes around the movement and the two screws on the ring hold the movement to the case; by turning it counter-clockwise, it backs out the screw while pushing the movement and dial tightly to the case.

Dial:

I wasn't planning to show a picture of the dial by itself, but the damn keyless got messed up after removing the crown so I had to take off hands and dial to get it fixed. Most say the dial is a copy of or actual WM9 dial. The dial does not have thicker surrounds at 12 6 and 9 unlike the TW dial.

(Gen GMT IIc, BK TW (PBdad), TC)

It is super-lumed and glows as bright as the TW dial (relumed by PBdad) as well as my gen GMT IIc. The hands are also superlumed, but unfortunately my second's hand isn't as bright as the others (TC is sending me a replacement second's hand).

Crystal:

The crystal is 1.8mm in thickness. The cyclops has the correct mag but the cyclops seems to darken the date. On the TW sub with the gen crystal, the date appears brighter. The crystal does not have etching at 6'o clock.

DW font and print looks very much like BK's DWO. I do notice it has a bit more gloss to it.

Bracelet/clasp:

The watch came with V2 SEL bracelet (which so also said its made by WM9 (or copy of) as well). The clasp is very nice, joints are smooth and clasp closes nicely. The crown logo is accurate and clean. The brushing on the entire bracelet is also quite nice. The shine is deeper than the noob bracelet, its closer to the brushed part of my gen GMT IIc's bracelet.

It has the EXACT same engravings as the WM9 clasp in my franken BK TW review.

The SEL is one piece. It's a step up from the noob bracelet that was on my franken TW. This bracelet fits the TW sub nicely (TC's v1 version was too narrow).

The SEL is also stamped. Pretty clean here, a lot nicer than burnt laser etching.

The SEL fitment itself is quite good, although not perfect. The SEL can be a tad wider (if you hold up the watch you can see a bit of the lug springs). The spacing isn't really an issue when worn. This is definitely an improvement to the SEL that was fitted on my TW sub in my previous review.

Conclusion:

IMHO the TC sub has a lot of potential since it can take mostly all gen parts without mods. The stock pearl on it is quite bad, so a gen insert or pearl mod is a must. The stock insert is also a bit taller than a gen insert making the crystal look shorter. The printing and font of the stock insert looks quite nice, its just missing a proper pearl. I can't be too picky, but the SEL can be improved, but until then I would say it's very acceptable. So far the movement is working quite well, and date changes occur within -/+ 5 mins at 24hr time. So in short, this would be a perfect rep if a gen insert, crystal and better SEL is installed.

I do like to comment on the service offered by TC. TC definitely needs to improve on communications with members/customers. Perhaps its due to the overwhelming response from the rep community but he has not been to responsive to questions for members including myself. I'm sure this would improve once TC irons out his supply and building process. The watch arrived a little over 2 weeks from the time I made the payment.

Here is a pic but not great as it is on my Iphone.

Looks pretty good. I think I'll do it when I get tired of the engraving. I like them for now

I have removed the engraving today from my tc sub case. They are not deep and no harder than removing from any other case.

Used 220grit and then 180grit and a bit of polish. Will take a pic when possible

have you check your dial the opening is not too big, after removing the engravings

Any pics of the shaved rehaut?

My TC sub arrived also, and looks identical to your's. The difference I did notice is the serial number. Your serial number is V 689055, mine is V 689060, and the serial number on the case that TC did his gen vs. his rep comparison is V 689092. I wonder if the factory is engraving sequential serial numbers on their cases? Overall I'm very pleased with with the watch. Thanks TC!

Mine is V 689083 Maybe they do

that's great to know!

looks very nice! is that a stock crystal? the mag looks clean almost look like its got AR. What was the base watch?

Very nice...How do you think this compares to the TW.

can't say much on how it compares to a stock BK TW. My BK TW has gen crystal at the moment (moved the gen insert from TW to this TC). The magnification is definitely noticeable on the TC vs the gen crystal. It's more crisp and appears to be brighter with the gen. I will do a more in depth review this weekend.

just installed a gen bezel insert:

Initially I thought it wouldn't fit, but it needed much more force for it to snap in.

Followed these instructions:

www.vikbobil.se/bezel.html

You can also look at this thread that was started yesterday:

http://www.rwg.cc/to...-fit-pic-added/