mezzanine

Very nice review. I really like the watch. If it's true that it will run close to $500 with the bracelet, then I might wait on selling mine and see if I can pick up a bracelet once they hit the market.

Thanks- I can't remember the last time I was so excited about receiving a watch. It has surprising size and wrist presence- the Seadwellers are awesome. I'm convinced that the vintage MBW's are one of the coolest things about the hobby. The funny thing about Rolex reps, at least for me, is that they can never be too perfect. Whereas with other brands, there's a threshold of 'enough' that usually doesn't require a ton of gen parts and mods. I'm thinking I can only afford to have two of them.

I know I just posted this one in the other wrist check, but I'm excited about this one, and even if the bracelet's a little tight right now, I'm going to be wearing this for sure:

I'm sporting this one, and probably will be for a while...

I'm afraid I've got the bug. I just don't think I can afford another one of these beauties. This is fresh from twenty minutes ago, a beautiful watch from a member here:

Keep in mind guys that Rob said he is still taking orders for January, so his tremendous work is still available to the lucky folks whose watches he works on. I just wanted to remind people that while he may be gone from the forum, he is still very much an integral part of this community.

I've moderated enough forums to know a banned troll back with a new account when I see one...

I don't know if anyone else started feeling really depressed while reading that, but I know that I did. I had a bad feeling a couple of months back, left for a while myself, and then came back. Hopefully you will be back at some point- there's no question that the community has benefitted tremendously from your efforts on many levels. Sometimes it's about the relationship you have with yourself and your own perceptions or principles, and not anything else. It isn't necessarily about passing judgment, but more about having to step back and take a look at how one can feel comfortable in a particular environment, when that environment may occasionally drift on it's principal purpose. The forum is to prevent people from getting ripped off. It's a very difficult environment to deal in without getting 'caught', in terms of avoiding some of the questionable practices that go on. What is frustrating, is if your honesty and straight-up attitude doesn't get 'priced' into the marketplace. This means that the marketplace itself carries a risk factor that you have to absorb yourself, but that you don't end up passing onto your customer, in terms of how the value of that reliability and basic business ethics gets reflected in your pricing. A very unfortunate situation. I believe this should be a catalyst for a new focus on the need to use this place as an collective alliance against practices that are untrustworthy or otherwise sketchy in the rep world. Hopefully we can re-new our spirit of commitment to the ethical sharing of information about the marketplace in a transparent manner. Maybe we'll see you around in the future, should that happen, and maybe we'll have begun to appreciate the value of what a fair and honest culture can bring out in people of their own free choosing- as Rob has done on this forum since it was created.

Here's a few pics of the crystal, I may end up keeping this- but I'm wrestlin' with it at this point.... Maybe it's a Clark's or some other aftermarket? These vintage Rolex parts are starting to drive me a little insane, I'm not kidding. I was talking with Chieftang about this earlier via PM. Jetsons and tmg, that's helpful- much appreciated...also would need the crown guards to get worked a bit, and the installation of the insert, which I don't imagine is too difficult. It's crazy the price that these things can run- yikes. That's why I figured I should sell it initially, the cost of actually getting these parts integrated into the watch, and the dial/case mods that are necessary- it might be prohibitive.

Thanks for the input guys. Yeah, what's funny is that I enjoy the hunt for the parts, but to not really benefit from the process in that tangible way that goes with having them used to upgrade a watch...well, it's sort of an empty feeling considering the patience and difficulty that can be involved. I wish I could find out about the crystal 100% as well. Maybe I'll post some pics. I'll update the thread momentarily...

Hey all- Right now I've got a MBW 1665 DRSD for sale. The crystal has been modded and is done, and I feel it's priced reasonably considering. It hasn't sold yet...and the longer it sits there, the more of a dilemma I think I'm starting to face. The sale has been precipitated by a situation on another watch forum in which I may be out some serious cash. The plan was to have it modded, and I went about collecting some genuine vintage Rolex parts to try to prepare for the journey. As a result, I'm selling the watch and the parts. But as I was posting the items for sale, I couldn't help but wonder whether I'm squandering a lot of effort and time in assembling these parts. If I passed over: a genuine insert/pearl, a genuine crown and tube, genuine 580 endlinks, an Ubi datewheel, and provided the necessary spring bars, etc...what would it cost to get the dial aged/lug holes drilled, etc.. if I was to get the watch put together? I would withdraw the sale of the parts/watch if I could get the watch assembled- but can't afford to spend a lot of cash at this point. Thanks for any advice-

Interesting, I wish I'd known about Bodo myself-

You have to applaud that kind of effort. I would say that is above and beyond. I think the problem for some buyers is the delayed gratification- for me, it's not that big an issue, but having bought/sold some watches I can definitely understand that this is not the case for a lot of buyers. Sometimes as a seller it can be frustrating because you can't help when the postal service is going to move their inventory. I've only seen lightly modded rolex MBW's to this point, but soon I should have the chance to see one with a ton of gen parts- which will be a better perspective with which to judge their true merit. I have to say, the modern MBW sub, with a simple insert/pearl change, is much preferred to the shallow rehaut that is characteristic of the modern chinese subs. The idea of a modern Watchmaker9 with some easier-to-find-than-vintage gen parts would be intriguing. I much prefer the vintage rollies, but that one has good potential.

Very nice. It's good to a have a watch release to look forward to, and as always Angus is the one to come through with the preview pictures!!

At $300 US Josh wouldn't be making enough money to cover his expenses and the hassle of actually sourcing the watches. It's nice to think about, but the price of the MBW's is more stable than that, as it's controlled by a single source. I don't think there's going to be a better price than what has already been established by the marketplace.

This has been a very interesting thread. I've owned a few MBK watches, not just rollies, and there is a significant difference between them and their chinese counterparts in my experience, in terms of finish, dial quality, etc... I can definitely attest to the quality of the AP dials, at least the one on my Offshore is by far the most detailed and high quality of any rep I've seen. In fact, before I received the Offshore, I was under the impression that the case/bracelet/dial was essentially the same between the Chinese vs. Thai version...with the cyclops being superior on the MBW (and that's it). When I received the watch, my immediate impression was that it was far more similar to the previous MBK I'd had (which was the PP Nautilus Jumbo), as far as overall finish and quality of construction. The dial was off the charts. You have to see macros of it to get an idea of the level of detail and finish- I'm not joking, my first thought was that it was a gen dial that they'd got a hold of, ala the ceramic bezel's on the HBB. It actually changes colour under different lighting. In terms of the current situation- the chinese dealers HAVE started to "borrow" some of the popular MBK models recently, and have them repped in China at a lower overall quality level- so there is an interesting historical precedent. It's easy to follow the logic that TTK outlined, as far as the reasons as to why a sudden, continuous 'sourcing' of these watches to one of the Chinese dealers would strain plausibility. Subjectively, so I'm qualifying this by saying that this an uninformed opinion- but it's seemed that over the last year the MBK's have become more widely produced and available to the rep community. They're certainly not the mystical shadows of the rep world that they were a year or so ago, so the intuitive notion of a major dealer getting access seems somewhat consistent with the increase in mainstream availability. But Josh did say that they're the same or three times your money your money back- that is putting your money where your mouth is- and the early evidence available through pictures seems to be of the 'old' MBW's. How Josh acquired this stock, or connection, if we accept that they're from MBK is open to speculation. I don't know. I'm not too worried about the value of my 'real' MBK watches...which is the direction my collection has tilted towards significantly in the last couple of months. What I'm still curious about is the comment made about a possible submariner upgrade in the works. Are we talking about the modern gen watchmaker9(?) version? Because if MBK was going to be re-designing their 1680 case so that the CG's, lugholes, and all the other little details were corrected, and were to release a new red dial that looked 'right', I would be jealous and wish I'd waited. I only anticipate releases from two sources- the Chinese 'super rep' factory, and MBK.

I could see the maker maybe improving the BCE, but as By-Tor mentioned, it's unlikely that they're going to get the SFSO any better than it already is. And chances are, it would be worse. Instead of improving these two already-released models...why don't you work more quickly on the PVD Skyland!!

Very interesting news. Smart move by Josh.

I don't think it's going to be made with ceramic, but rather PVD coated steel like the bezel on the HBB Lite 'ceramic' bezels. An interesting stylistic change-up...although slightly disappointing to the purists (those who have a gen ceramic bezel and have seen the difference with the real ceramic).

Sweet!! Many of us have been waiting for this for a long time!! The HUGE issue is whether they used actual ceramic on the bracelet. If so, then it is a must-buy...but I suspect if it's of good enough quality to put on this watch, than it's going to be around $200. I know that they've always said that the ceramic stuff isn't going to be available after-market. Wouldn't it make sense that if you can get the genuine ceramic bezel, you should be able to source the gen ceramic bracelet pieces? If this is true ceramic, I'm in heaven...my ceramic HBB is going to be upgraded very soon. The bracelet is awesome!! Exactly what you'd expect with this watch.... *edit: I don't think this is real ceramic. That's just from looking more closely at the pics. It doesn't seem to refract light like real ceramic.

That's the one and only time I will have worn this one.

I haven't owned the Royal Oak, but I have got the Offshore, and assuming they're as similar in quality as I suspect they are- I can understand why you would feel that the MBW RO is among the best of the best. There's something to be said for only going after the best of the best.

This is a mirror-thread to the one that has already been posted and discusses whether there is a rep that has eclipsed all others. Except....this topic is about whether you've had a rep that almost 'broke' you of the replica watch collecting hobby. I'm curious whether any members have ecountered a watch or a project that almost made you want to give up collecting reps out of a negative experience? I think that there are probably a group of folks out there that were probably budding collectors, but may have had a bad experience with a particular watch, and been put off the hobby all together. I know that if a newb was to get burned on his first experience or two, it would be enough to likely contaminate that individual for other purchases. In buying/selling a few reps since starting, I have come to value the feedback and reputation of the person I'm dealing with for precisely this reason. There are a lot of things that can go wrong in obtaining a rep. I don't think a lot of value is really built into the process of buying a watch from a reputable person, and that's what has caused me to soften some of my attitude towards some of the dealers, and the flack they catch for building the fickle-ness of rep buyers into their profit margin. The watch that has almost put me off the hobby is a supposedly fully modded Pam that I was sold that was a scam attempt. If I lose $600 on that one, it might just [censored] me to off to the degree that I become much more careful about where the watches I get come from. I fear there are a lot of those types of experiences that have complicated the nature of the hobby...

Good thread. The closest I've come is the Hublot Big Bang. I would've probably have been smart to have packed it in after I received that watch and was so impressed. The ceramic bezel version, especially. The rep is so expensive, that I think some buyers might actually treat the rep as though it was a gen purchase. Under that scenario, I believe that the # of people who have likely bought that watch, and no other rep, is probably higher for the HBB than for any other model. I'm starting to try to get my collection to the point where each of the watches in my group is worthy of that status. I want to get my collection down to a point where I've got 5 to 7 really high quality reps that would each be considered timeless.

You're right that it's still a pricey watch. I was curious about the Blackbird, being that I've noticed a progression between the quality of the various releases of 'super-rep' as time moves forward. It's difficult to compare between radically different designs. But the unique thing about the Blackbird is it's similarity to the Evolution that has already been replicated. As a result, it's more realistic to test my theory about whether the reps are improving. If the case is essentially supposed to be equal, there might be clues about where things are improved, and where they're weaker. I am fortunate to have owned the ultimate BCE that was the first truly well done Breitling rep in a couple of years. I also owned the classic, Breitling Chrono Avenger Titanium that is still much sought after. The owners of that watch should be in immediate contact with chieftang or Jakub about getting their crystal AR coated. Although the 'legend' of the watch is that it has excellent AR...by today's standards, it's probably not up to uPO standards. I will admit, I would consider getting this treatment even if I was still an owner of a BCE. I don't know about the more recent release, but the more common one suffers from poor quality double AR. It's not necessary, but if I had one from a year ago and it had a few scratches, I would be in line for the high quality aftermarket. Anyways, I'm convinced that the next frontier for replica watch manufacturing is going to be with dial quality. I think a lot of the appeal of the SFSO is the quality of the dial. It's one of the first times that rep makers have been able to capture the appearance of a detailed genuine dial. As the ability to replicate complex/detailed dials increases, I think we'll see the next step as far as obvious improvement in rep quality. I've seen a glimpse of how good it can be, with the dial used on my MBW AP ROO that changes colour. This is the feature that I think most separates the Blackbird from the BCE. The dial quality is higher. It can look graphite under certain angles and lights, and generally has a high-quality finish. Under certain angles, I'm not going to lie, I thought that the BCE dials could look almost cardboardish. The hands on the Blackbird look very thin and a little foil-ish, but are clean and wider than those of the BCE. The person who asked about the alignment of the screw on the 12 o'clock rider tab, you're correct, the screw aligns with the pearl. So they're 'correct' in terms of being aligned with each other- just not in relation to the middle of the rider!?! This may be of concern to those that were hoping it was just a matter of the pearl. That's the thing- if you think it's something that's going to bug you, I wouldn't suggest getting it. For me, and this is only personal preference, but having collected these watches for a while now, I have a relative balance in my mind between the 'finish' of the watch and the fidelity to the original. I find that if the finish of the watch is gen-like, then perfect fidelity is less significant. Everyone has their pet issues, though- and I know how something that bugs one person won't bug another, but on some other problem, it's the opposite. There is an improvement in minor engraving, the stuff that doesn't even necessarily look like engraving but almost stamp like, which I first noticed on the SFSO...but there are far better reviews for this type of stuff. I really like the design of the Blackbird/Evo chrono pushers- they're screw down, but it fits with the propeller-like design of the pusher layout and shows the tight machining of the rep.