mezzanine

I am definitely screwed now. I already have the SS version of the watch, but I can see now that the carbon fibre dial and the ceramic bezel are going to force me into action. Wouldn't have predicted that. I made it part of my buying decision to get the SS version that I would be just as happy with that one. I really believed it, or else I wouldn't have even got the SS one at the time. Argh. At least my SS HBB is serviced.

That ceramic is indeed hot.

I've been wondering about that as well- the whole issue of the 7750 with frozen(?) subdial reliability vs. the standard 7750 reliability. I like the 008 the best, style-wise, but would go for the 002 if it was a more reliable movement. Also, I would rather these have no AR at all, then just light crappy AR. That way you can get it done right yourself, at least.

Unfortunately I am a chrono-guy, but not only that...a lot of the very best reps are chrono watches. The HBB and BCE are probably two of the best available, and they require the 7750 movement. The Tag Link Chrono was one of the best watches of last year. The Omega SMP chrono, etc... I've tried to focus more on non-chronos, even though I prefer chronos...just because of the movement issue. I've got the Ingy, which is a non-chrono that is very good, as well as the steelfish (don't have) and PO. My understanding is that the 7750 is alright after servicing, and that's why for my favourite and most expensive watch, the HBB, I bought it serviced. Otherwise, I wouldn't invest in a 7750 watch I wasn't prepared to write off after a year.

Good point about the trading forum, Richard. In fact, that's how I got my HBB, and I think there are a number of advantages to that method. In terms of the reliability of the HBB movement, this is a discussion that is spilling over into a couple of related threads right now- but my understanding is that the movement is relatively reliable (how reliable is an asian 7750 in the best of times?), because the seconds are still in their native position. The problem arises with models that try to move the second sub dial to another position with transfer gears. Too much stress. Although The Zigmeister seemed to give the HBB layout the bill of good health...unless someone can correct me on that?

I just lost my long reply, which of course I find *delightful*, but my post was basically an attempt to clarify the nature of the modification made to the 7750 for the HBB. My understanding was that it was a couple of transfer gears that wouldn't really impact the movement that much, from a stress standpoint. A lot of people are talking as though this is a seconds at 6 movemen we're discussing here. BigRedJoe on the darkside who does mods even said that a couple of dealers privately told him to stay away from the HBB, and yet at the same time made a recommendation for the BCE. It doesn't make sense to me. The Zigmeister indicated that the 7750 with the HBB layout shouldn't effect movement reliabililty. Who is right on this? The seconds are still at 9 with the HBB, and I believe that's by far the most critical to the stability of the movement.

You guys should just do it, if you're wanting the HBB. I've tried voting but I think it got screwed up, but I was lucky enough to buy mine off another member who had already done the QC screening. I would wait to see if the more secondary dealers end up getting it for cheaper over the course of the next few weeks- and then if you really like it, get it serviced before hand if any of the smaller dealers offer that. I don't believe Ruby has access to that service, for example. I have a hard time trying to imagine an experienced rep collector feeling disappointed upon unwrapping this watch. It represents a step forward, IMO. I would be interested in a poll of HBB owners, about whether they feel the price is justified, vs. those that are making inferences about it's value without having seen or held it. I know that I was part of the second group, up until this week. That being said, I think a lot depends on what you've already got in your collection. Mine wasn't that big when I got the HBB, so it was still very new to me, the idea of a rep that good. As I've said in an earlier post, it felt more like getting a gen. perhaps that's just the cost But my guess is that IF you've got a BCE and Steelfish, and you're 'used' to the quality of these new reps, than I would avoid the HBB, as you probably would already have it if it was any type of 'grail' watch for you.... or really held interest. I also think you're less likely to be blown away if you've handled reps like the new breity's. I'd had most of the best reps of '06, though. uPO, Tag Link Chrono, Ingy, etc...

That's why I bought mine serviced. I don't see how the HBB is much worse than other seconds at 9 subdial layouts. I agree with you about the idea of buying it without servicing or a swiss movement, though. I don't know if I would do that, either. Even with the uBCE, I'm still hesitating because I don't now if it's worth it without getting it serviced, which is expensive. I feel the BCE is more within the realm of acceptability, though, price wise. I try to avoid asian 7750 movements, but they're not the end of the world if you actually commit to owning one. Either you wait until it's a low enough price that you can justify the potential loss (as I'm going to do with the BCE), or you get it serviced and realize that this is part of the reality of buying a rep chronograph. The HBB is a 'grail watch' for me, so it was worth it...for you, it might not be. But whatever the case, make your buying decision based on the proper criteria. Not things like "build quality" which I heard TTK mention in another thread, which I feel is unsubstantiated. The build quality is better than other reps, but the quality control has been lacking from some dealers and especially with earlier stock.

For me, the HBB was worth it. Along with the ROO, it's my 'holy grail' and as such I can justify it.

Hey Marco, I just got it and I hadn't had a chance to send off a thank-you. Excellent job with the packing and I only hope we can do business again, as you're a pleasure to deal with. Now, what you were thinking selling the watch in the first place? I don't know. Maybe you were wise to the price drop!!! j/k Wouldn't bother me a bit- as I really feel the watch is that good. Neil, I can understand you not liking the design of the watch, and even ripping on it a bit because of that- but now that you're talking about the build quality (which I would suggest is different than QC), I believe that you're incorrect. What is it about the HBB build quality that you feel is a rip off? Do the dealers have a much larger margin on this watch than we are aware? It would seem to me to hypocritical to trumpet the virtues of the new Ferrari Pams, and yet not acknowledge that- even if you don't personally like it- the HBB is a high quality rep.

I'm going to be very interested to see what happens with the HBB pricing. If the SS version drops down to around $300 US, I for one will be shocked. If it does, I'll be very encouraged about the future of rep collecting. One of the reasons I recently bought one was under the assumption that it wouldn't likely be going down too much in the next couple of months. I wanted to wait until may, but didn't have the patience. Everyone was saying first week of april, but that was for the ceramic release that Angus had already indicated would be the price that it ended up being. Every indication seemed to be that the actual cost of the HBB for the dealers was quite high. Maybe I'm wrong on that...? Now, if the factories are going to be pumping them out for cheaper and passing along the discount, I can see the cause for a price decrease- but otherwise I'm surprisingly skeptical. A week ago, I might not have been. But since then I've received my HBB, which was second batch and serviced, and the quality is such that the pricing doesn't seem 'that' unjustified for such a new and specialty item. It will change the way you look at the rest of your reps.

In the pic on the first page, it looks as though there are concentric circles though, isnt' there? Maybe I'm missing something...or are you referring to the subdials?

Joe, you should stick to the super reps. Is there a specific reason that you're deciding at this point to stear clear of any of the newer watches, other than the titanium Ingy? I might've missed it, and if it's a stylistic thing, whereby none of those watches hold any appeal for you from an aesthetic standpoint, then I understand completely. But if it's a pricing thing, or if it's a moral stance as a result of the whole cartel thing- I think you might be doing yourself a disservice by taking these off your list. I also should qualify my comments by saying that I'm not looking to try to incite any tangent conversation about any of the recent crazyness, but am rather trying to understand your buying decision criteria. If I were you, my list would be: 1) HBB 2) Breitling Evo Ultimate In terms of your happiness when you get it on your wrist, I think these two would have the most impact on an experienced collector like yourself. That being said, maybe you're trying to avoid the asian chronos, which I can understand- even if I think you should just get it serviced anyways and not let that stop you....especially where the HBB is concerned. But I digress. The watch you should get is: THE STEELFISH!!! Yup. That's the one you should get. Your previous specifications be damned. You don't want an asian, which is hard to argue with, but you do have a breity in your collection, so you obviously don't dislike them as a brand- and that's the one you should be looking at. I'll leave the dial colour up to you!

I can understand that, and to be honest, even at greater expense to the customer, the more I think about it, the more I am beginning to believe that watches of a higher standard like these are likely to generate more future revenue, rather than less. I'm looking at getting an ultimate BCE, purely out of inspiration from this watch and because others have said that it is in the ball park of the HBB from a quality and finishing perspective. That's what it comes down to. The HBB actually looks like a $10,000 watch. Honestly, I love my Tag Link Chrono and Ingy and uPO, but they might be up for sale soon. Maybe not the PO. Seriously, though. I'm sitting here and I'm looking at this thing on my wrist, and then I'm looking over at my other watches that are perched nicely by my monitor right now- and I'm thinking "this is my watch". That's the feeling I've never really got from reps before, that this watch gave me. It's why it's put the habit or process of rep collecting into a state of "re-definition" for me, because it's generally a feeling I only associate with getting a gen. It's that feeling that caused me to wonder whether this could be symbolic of a larger shift in the market- but in reality, it's probably only in my own head. I do think it's contributed to an ill feeling towards what have otherwise been extremely consciencious and service-oriented dealers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about anything other the pricing of the super reps. I just think that there might be more to the pricing issue...like the actual quality of the watches.

It makes me wonder about how these watches could potentially effect the future of the rep industry, from both a dealer and consumer perspective. Obviously this is where things are headed- but if you start to look at this from a dealer's perspective, I think this issue is much more complicated, and I believe the HBB is an example of why. I realize I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, and there's been significant discussion of this elsewhere, but I feel it's most relevant in threads like this where there is a potential significant buying decision involved for a number of people. Some of these new reps are so good, that if I was a dealer, I would start to wonder about how they're ultimately going to start to effect my bottom line. Obviously the vast majority of sales for these guys center around the average consumer who doesn't put a lot of thought into things, but finds this site, and gets their perfect sub and calls it a day. But for the significant percentage of their clients that are repeat customers, if they buy one of these watches- I think the % of return customers after buying a super rep is probably less, rather than more. Am I wrong on this? Do these super reps merely inspire greater interest? I'm a collector, and am probably a minority, from a buyer perspective, as a result- but I can tell you one thing...and that's that I would be very happy with only the HBB as my daily watch. It makes me believe that part of this 'cartel' thing might be a natural move in the market, not only because these reps are more expensive to get to begin with, but perhaps because they're also so good that it could influence their business model, from a future potential sales standpoint. Honestly, if you're some guy that discovers reps, and you get a HBB, I think your reaction is going to be "I'm done".

A word to those that haven't got or seen the HBB in person, but there is a reason beyond the existence of the cartel, for why this watch is so expensive. When I first received it, I honestly wondered whether it made the rest of my watches obsolete. I've got a uPO, Tag Link Chrono, Ingy, portugese, perfect sub, titanium pam, etc... and none come close. This is going to get the majority of wrist time for as long as I can imagine, to the degree that I'm considering selling off a significant % of my reps. My only reason for this comment is to offer my perspective on the value of some of these super reps. I think that the whole 'cartel' thing has got people confused about the reason for the pricing on some of these. One last thought- while the HBB has almost caused my interest in reps to wane, as it's my 'holy grail'....on the other hand it's almost re-sparked my interest in picking up another rep of this quality. Now I'm thinking about picking up an uEVO and selling off all but a couple of my other watches

For me it's between the black/silver, white, and graphite. I really like the black with silver subdials, but I've got other black faced watches, especially the HBB that is in some ways similar. I like the white, but I wish it was the silverish version. It would be no contest. That being said, the graphite is appealing too. Bah!! It's too bad that not many of us have actually held both reps to be able to say what looks better in person. A lot is subjective, but I truly believe that one of these probably looks better than the others.

I like this watch, but considering the cost of the gen and the fact I don't yet own a BCE, I'm wondering whether it's worth buying at this price. I would definitely buy the white dial in the steelfish. I'm not sure which BCE version appeals to me, ironically, so my problem is the exact same, except with the other recent breitling super rep. I like the white version of the BCE as well, but I also like the black dial with silver sub dials as well as the graphite version. The Steelfish color selection seems easier to me!!

One thing I don't necessarily understand is that people will ante up the extra 300-400 bucks for the swiss movement, but isn't the asian 7750 as good, once it has been serviced? A new movement still hasn't been serviced, has it? I understand that you're getting a better long-term base with the swiss, but isn't it just as good to go with the serviced asian? I would rather pay $400 for a serviced asian ultimate BCE than the 600 or whatever it is for the swiss movement....unless I'm missing something (quite possible )

I'd be all over it, too. The diamonds are a little too bling, but the MOP in black, if done properly, would be awesome. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

Has anyone picked up one of these new PP 24s?

I think The Zigmeister qualified his comments on the new 7750 by saying that it requires servicing to be considered 'solid'. Anecdotally, there is still a significant % of complaints on the board about the new movement failing. Also keeping in mind it's only been out now for about a year...so any 'time-tested' reliability questions are still borderline based on the age of the movement. The darkside got the jump on this discussion. No one seems particularly happy with the price of this one, even though there was prior warning from Angus. I'm torn on this one as far as both sides of the discussion. Some people are critical, others can justify it.

I love the ceramic bezel, but it's not hugely preferable over the SS bezel version for me. I was worried that the price of the SS version was going to crash after this version came out, as I have a SS one on the way and wondered if it was a bad time to be buying. I'm still a little mixed about the cost. If it doesn't really blow me away, then it would be hard to justify keeping it. You could recover most of your money I'd imagine if you didn't like it and put it up on the sale board. I wonder if a group buy could get this down to $500?

Can you hook me up with the very best sub for watch blue hummus?

I'm down for three crystals. Thanks Chieftang...took me a while to finally be able to get around to it.