mezzanine

The way the tritium on the dial markers has aged is a little different, but everything else about it looks fine. The insert is a genuine with a luminova pearl, just like most of us here have. Nothing wrong with that, considering this watch obviously has some service replacement parts and is not original. The point is that the dial looks good, as was mentioned above. Ironically, the only thing that really made me wonder initially was the bezel. I'm sure that I'm just seeing things, though...

I believe that certain reps have got to a point where their quality is so close to the genuine that it really makes buying the real thing a questionable value. I think it's a recent development. Two years ago, I do not think you could make this claim. The reps were simply not good enough, and the watches in the price range we're talking about are usually especially good values in the gen world. If you look at the watches being released in the $300+ range, most of them make their authentic counterpart obsolete, IMO. No way would I consider a genuine watch where there was a rep alternative as good as some of them are now. The exciting thing is that they're getting better at doing the higher priced watches now, like the HBB and the Dewitt.

I have finally noticed with this wrist check that we've got a newer generation of watches after the biggest lull in the rep world that I'd seen in my brief time here. Today I'm wearing my Sea Dweller. It is currently on a correct genuine 93150 bracelet, thanks to a certain Austrian friend that shall remain nameless.

I would go for a stainless steel Hublot Big Bang. Hard to imagine topping that watch in the price range we're talking about. Unless you don't like the style of it.

I would buy a gen that hasn't been repped as well, with Sinn being the best example of a good value that has remained strong with the lack of reps to cut into their appeal. I agree that there are differences between the finish of gens and reps, even with the newer really good ones, but the question is whether those minor differences justify the cost difference. If we're talking about the SFSO, as an example, then we have a watch that is available in the used market for $1200 or so. You could reverse the view point and suggest that the rep is a poor value, when it's so expensive in relation to the gen. But the argument that the quality difference in terms of tolerances, etc.. are going to be significantly different is the whole point- they're not that different. They used to be, but the whole argument being made is that those qualitative and quantitative differences are smaller than ever before. When we're talking about a basic ETA movement in a divers case, the functional differences are negligible. I could even see with a brand like Sinn that is really a serious tool watch might be hard to get right, in terms of the metal being used, etc... but not so much with watches that are from major brands (not named Rolex) and are part of their modern line-up being released within a competitive niche and priced accordingly.

I think as recently as a few years ago, lower priced genuine luxury watches were a cool niche in the watch world. Now, with the increase in the quality and availability of replicas of these watches, are the genuines less of a value? For example, it would be a difficult case to make that the difference between the gen and rep Breitling SFSO or Heritage is worth the price difference. The genuines use the same basic movement as the rep, and the differences in appearance are hard to spot. If both watches have the same basic movement, where is the justification if you are aware of both watches? The standard "gens hold their value" argument is not really what I'm looking for. In this case, the value of not having $2000 tied up in a watch exceeds the value of being able to sell it with a minimal loss, IMO. If it's about the stability of the value of the genuine, put the money you'd save into an index fund and you'll be better off. I believe that the newer reps are making the low-to-mid end niche of genuine watches a poor value. The uPO is another example, especially when you start talking about modded pieces with SL and double AR. Most people say that the price of the genuine doesn't enter into their decision process with rep choices. I believe that this is going to change as this pattern continues...

Gotta find a gen. I don't know as much about the moderns, but the difference is worth it. They're a [censored] to find, totally overpriced, but I personally am yet to see a rep insert that gets the 'look' of the genuine. The issue is that the insert is the only 'colored' part of the watch, and as a result, your eye is drawn there automatically. It seems to me as though the genuine inserts are created in a different manner than the aftermarkets. On the moderns, I don't think it would be as significant. Those inserts are more generic looking than trying to capture the appearance of a faded '70's insert. The genuines almost seem like they're completely steel/metal. Even the black painted sheen seems like it's metallic. The reps look like acrylic paint painted on plastic or something.

Awesome work... Great pics, too. Excellent sequence of steps...always helpful to be able to get some shots of the dial and movement.

I wondered what it was that caused people to think it was a vietnamese case. The Zigmeister is getting crazy-good at those crown guards. I would say that the dial is a standard MBW...I don't see what about it would be different to what we usually get. The insert looks rep to me. It's sometimes tough to be able to spot the gen inserts in pics. I usually try to look at the fonts as the silver fonts look more painted on with the rep inserts, and I also look at where the light is hitting the insert. The gens tend to reflect the light back differently. I usually notice more dimension to the colour and that it reflects light differently- like a matte silverish hue. crystal looks like a standard genuine flat-top. crown looks like a standard triplock to me, I can't spot the vintage ones. Genuine endlinks, but I would be suspicious about that bracelet. I guess only because the clasp looks spotty, but still genuine I guess based on the size of the clasp holes. Genuine crown.

Awesome and congrats.... Just from my outside perspective, I have to imagine that Rolex is pleased with the sales of their new GMT w/ceramic bezel. Contrast that with the new Yachtmaster II, and I hope Rolex gets a better idea of what direction to go in the future.

I'm only speaking for myself, but I needed the crystal execution to be better to have jumped on this one right away. If it were possible to do the crystal AR through Chief or K222 after purchase, it would be a killer watch.

Awesome. I think this is the best mod of a He valve that I've seen... Let me know if there's any availability to get this mod done, and I will be all over it- the He valve is pretty much all that I have left, with the exception of a superdome.

Very cool...I didn't realize that the Chopard was already out, and with one of the MBK associated dealers leaving the board, I would imagine there would be a demand for access to some of those pieces.

Something I've observed with some of these rarer pieces that I find quite interesting is that some of that have actually decreased in desirability over the last year or so. I believe that with the 'super reps' and the evolution of the hobby, there is a little less interest in the pieces that were so legendary a year or two before. The rep hobby is more like the technology sector and reps are like commodities. Some pieces transcend the advancement and that characterization with their quality. Sometimes that value comes in the form of a valuable movement (GMT Pams), some are rare and sought after because their quality was so good. But some were more desired because they were discontinued and there was nothing else comparable left in it's place as an alternative for that particular model. Now, conditions are such that you're better off to go with a different, more recent watch, rather than tie up your expectations in an older watch whose quality is probably not actually that great. I would echo kruzer's comments about the "rarity" of some of the frankens. The frankens have much more personality, in terms of the process of modding and assembling one of them and the association that creates with the watch over time. There is a very organic quality to 'growing' a franken. It's not the out-of-box experience that a HBB is, but once a watch has some basic aesthetic mods, the rest of the journey can be done as the relationship with the watch develops. If one finds that a particular part bugs them over time, it can be specifically addressed. Even if you want to go for the full-boat from the start, it's still going to take you a long time to assemble the necessary parts. I believe that these frankens, from whatever brand, represent the true rare and valuable pieces, if you were to really look at the "favourite" piece of members that have been here for at least a year. They're the pieces where the most energy and soul of the community exists in it's most vital and creative form. Some ordinary and available 'bases' can be used to for extraordinary results.

I think that the old factory Omega SMP "007" is one of those rare pieces that are highly sought after and rare. I would put the discontinued Breitling Seawolf Titanium into that category as well. There is a pre-DW vintage daytona case referred to as the "EE" (I think) that is very rare and something of an early herald of the MBW's. While not 'rare' as such, there are some very highly modded vintage rolex pieces that are essentially genuines with an aftermarket case that are very few in number because of their high cost of investment.

What about the c.1575? Why wouldn't they do that movement first?

I still believe that in some ways the rep hobby is at an impasse because the ceramic HBB's are so good that they're not likely to be eclipsed for a couple of years. They've already got a solid year under their belt as the best rep ever made, IMO.

That's a great post, andreww. The economics of the rep market is sometimes a little irrational. There are positive aspects to it, but for the most part it's become less useful for those looking to upgrade their collection than in the past. I think the whole super-rep phenomenon has changed the economics. Also, there is a more anonymous culture here than there has been in the past. That contributes to the risk of having something go wrong during a transaction. I wish that certain watches weren't allowed to be sold on the sales board. For example, modded MBW's that have genuine parts are a greater security risk, and I don't think that some dude looking for the best sub should have the ability to come in and make bids. The reason is not because I want to disadvantage the seller to get the best price possible, but the security of the transaction doesn't get 'priced' into the equation. You're dealing with a newb or a person who is not sure what they're doing/buying and all of a sudden the extra 20 bucks that they paid over someone else is irrelevant. That's my biggest grievance- the reputation or reliability of the 'member' doesn't get priced into the equation. This is a lesson that is as old as time itself, as far as replica watches are concerned. It's why a couple of years ago, I don't think that anyone would've bought from Paul at Wo-Mart over Josh, even thought Paul's prices may have been much cheaper. The understanding that value does not always equate with price in the rep world doesn't always get priced into the equation. What's especially unfortunate is when members who are aware of these value factors that go beyond the price, end up getting taken advantage of when they're selling their watches in all honesty and at fair prices. Some newbs will drop in and start making low-balls or claims about things they don't really know about, and undermine the sale of otherwise honest members. Usually they slide in under the guise of being 'new' and really motivated to learn and participate. The reality is that they're trying to elicit sympathy from those that they wish to in some way take advantage of, whether through their knowledge or through their actual sale. It's a situation where one bad experience with a newb like that, and you're done with it and want the sales board shut down to those with under 200 posts.

I've had some really amazing situations. I don't even want to get started. I have pretty much got out of the hobby on the basis of not wanting to have to deal with it all...not in the sense of losing interest in reps, but in terms of buying/selling reps. It's not the most fun experience in the world, and these reps depreciate at a very fast rate. I don't like the price depreciation with standard reps.

I saw a luminova genuine pearl go for $100 recently, so seeing the tritium pearls going for ridiculous amounts doesn't shock me. I will never understand the rolex parts market.

Saturday was 1680 on the new folded bracelet day (pictured above), which is incredibly comfortable as a lightweight combination. And after some quick bracelet work, Sunday is all about the devil:

Freddy, I may have asked you this before I can't remember, but it could be useful in the context of those that are interested in replacing their MBW dial with an aftermarket- could you take a look at the flaws on this dial? This one is an aftermarket like the NDtrading, but I'm not sure if it's the exact same as theirs or not. I've found that the aftermarket dials, while incorrect in some of the 'fidelity' ways that you were describing, just look way better in terms of their overall quality. I'm talking about thinness of fonts, the coronet, the spacing of letters, the texture of the dial, etc.. I admit I have a hard time getting a good shot of the dial.. Before the obvious point about the script font being too western, I've seen two versions of this dial in the genuine world, one was more typical script, but I have seen a genuine dial with font that looked closer to this. Should've saved the photo...

What is your impression on the difference between the genuine vs. the replica bracelet? It sounds like the rep bracelet that came with it originally is actually pretty good. I am glad that CBR listed that bracelet when I didn't have cash otherwise I would be even more jealous of the deal you got on it. And yes, the ability of the genuine parts to retain their value is significant. With the antiquorium auction, some rolex collectors are expecting a bit of a downshift in the market, in terms of the value of some of the pieces that may have got inflated in the recent market. I love the fact that it's still going to take me another few months before I'll be able to even think of considering my two projects 'done'. It's a great way to be involved in the hobby because they take so bloody long sometimes.