RageRover

Thanks for letting me know my thinking is correct. I'm not much of a Paneristi. I have resisted the temptation...I’m just starting to give in! LOL I've dealt with Angus and I've been very happy with his products and service. So part of my attitude is why change once you found a good thing The only reason I'm considering DSN's case is he seems to be the only one with a properly PVDed case. But I have never been a fan of DSN's dials. Also been too many posts lately about how is service and quality is slipping. Angus seems to have the "perfect" 111E dial (as far as fonts, numbers, spacing...may only need some luminova). I don't own any PVD watches...they scare me...I'm afraid they will chip and scratch and start to look like merde after a short period of time. I'm not easy on my daily watches. I'm a somewhat clumsy guy. I'm often hitting my wrist (accidentally) against doorways, etc. So maybe I should stick to stainless. Anyway...I'll call around and see what it costs to get a watch PVDed. I think getting Angus' 111E and getting it PVDed is the way to go. At least I know the PVD will be perfect (as far as durability, maybe not color) if I have it done myself. I'm guessing it would cost $100 +/- a few dollars. Display case backs are nice. I love looking at movements. But IMHO, a Panerai is a tool watch, should have a closed back. And 2, The open back thing wears off quickly with most watches. Its one thing if I have an antique Cortebert movement or a chronograph where I can see little levers moving. But with a 6497/8 I dont need to a display back. Sorry for long post and blabbing LOL

Angus' 111E is looking really good...I'm reallllllyyyy wanting to pull the trigger on it. Lately, been interested in PVD. I'm starting to like the "under cover" look. Babola said that Angus' 111E "...will not accept standard rep dial without additional mod, will be OK with DSN dial." So I'm thinking that this dial should fit DSN's PVD case perfectly? Or other option is to take Angus' 111E and PVD it? Of course you'll need a new caseback, which is available...but then will it fit? But with a closed caseback you don't have to worry about how perfect the movement is (or isn't). I think I just opened up a can of worms! I'm just sort of thinking out loud and wondering if my thinking is correct? Any comments? Suggestions? Thanks! Pic is of a gen Pam004.

True, its hard to say what something is "worth." All depends on the individual. IMHO, $1000 is too much for a Panerai. But thats my $0.02. Whats "under the hood" (i.e. the movement) is the most important factor me. $20k for a nice case with a $75 ETA movement?!? I thought a lot of Rolexes (sp?) were over priced as well, but at least Rolex produced most of their own movements. Thats why I love my Seikos and why I think they are the best value in the world. Take the "Black Monster" everything, including the crystal ("hardlex") and even some of the lubricants are made in house. And all for $150....

I wonder if a little wax/polish may deepen the color a bit? And also give it a little shine that the genuine has? Would be easier if it was disassembled, but how about some car wax? Just my $0.02. Eventhough its not "jet black" I still think your B&R looks great! Out of curiosity, what coating does the rep come with? Most dealers seem to imply that its genuine PVD. So I take it the rep does not have a PVD coating? What kind of coating is it? Just black paint? Thanks.

AR can always be added if it really does annoy you. There are several opticians near me, one is a family friend. I'm sure it doesnt cost much to have a crystal coated. Maybe $20? I'll inquire. I don't have the knowledge or tools to start taking a watch apart, but I guess with reps, sometimes it needs to be done if you want a perfect watch? Its not something I want to do...I'd prefer a watch that is perfect out of the box. It seems that if I get an AR coating, I'd have to pay my watchmaker a pretty penny to take the watch apart...then put it together. I can probably take the movement out. But I don't have a crystal press. How is the crystal? is is mineral or sapphire? is the cyclops the correct magnification? I've been looking at pics last night of the Choppard...its difficult for me to find any flaws. The only thing I can really think of, is that the font which says "GMT" on the dial is a bit off. But not by much. Date looks good, as does the rest of the dial. Are the hands correct? they sometimes look blue in pics of the gen. The shape looks good on the rep though. I never considered AR much...most of my watches (many which are gen) do not have it. And like I said before, its not a major problem to add and AR coating. I think I'm going to have to make a trip to Tourneau to take a look at both watches.

Thanks for the all the feedback! Its greatly appreciated! jkerouac, you read my mind! The Chopard I plan I getting would be the white dial, with black subdials. I'm not a bracelet person. I prefer leather straps actually. My Seiko "Black Monster" is currently on its bracelet, but only becasue my gf said the NATO strap and thus my wrist smelled! LOL So, the Chopard would go on a black leather strap. In fact, I plan on getting a Heuer-type "racing" leather straps with the large holes punched in it. Similar to the Chopard leather strap (see pic, which I found through Google). I think the Heuer Carrera type, with the small holes can also look good. Delta, your Breitling is beautiful. And its still tempting me! But I think because I have a Bretiling SFSO I want to try a different brand. Although the Chronomat and SFSO are different watches, they both have Bretling's trademark bezel. So I think I'll go with the Chopard first. Assuming all goes well and no major problems, I'm sure I'll end up adding a Chronomat to my collection too. I'm hesitant to order two watches at once. JMT, sorry to hear about your problems. I know how annoying it is. I had my IWC Ingie for one day before it stopped and had to send it back for repair. Weeks later, when I got it back, it stopped again after about 24 hours. I loved the watch, loved the design. Felt very comfortable and looked 99% genuine. But after sending it back twice and wearing it for not even 48hrs total, I swore off rep chronos. I think the whole ordeal took over 4 months. I guess after a certain point there is a lot of luck when it comes to reps? Although I feel that sticking with an ETA movement increases your chances of having a reliable watch. I did forget that the Chopard has the added GMT function. But I guess I'm willing to risk it. I don't think the GMT function adds any considerable extra stress to the movement. When I do go for the Breitling, I have my eye on a Gray dial.

Thanks for the info Frank. Out of curiosity, are all the watches you have with movement "standard" layout? I.e. the subdials at 6, 9, 12? The one you had a problem with, was it a standard-7750? or did it have one of the modules on it (ala IWC Ingie chrono)? Thanks.

I'd like a chronometer. I have narrowed my decision down to the Chopard Mille Miglia GMT chronograph and the Breitling Chronomat. I had an IWC Ingie chrono for a while...Beautiful watch...but I had to send the watch back twice because of the movement. I ended up trading it in for a Breitling SFSO. I swore off buying an (Asian Valjoux) chrono after that...but I believe the problem had to do with the fact that the IWC uses an additional module above the movement to change the subdial layout (like the Omega SO chrono, Rolex Daytona, and IWC Portugueser chrono). So...since the Breitling and Chopard use a "standard" 7750 (no module, no extra gears) I'm thinking (hoping actually) that both are reliable? From what I have read and seen in pictures, both are extremely good reps. Both cases look beautiful. Both are very close, with few flaws. Basically, both have the typical flaws, such as a bad date wheel or a font here and there that is slightly off or needing a bit of lume. All are flaws I can live with or possibly fix with a work. I think the chances of being called out on either watch is slim! Basically, the only thing that scares me is the movement! Overall, what are your opinions? Do you have a watch with an Asian Valjoux? Has it been reliable? If there are other chronos you think I should consider, let me know! All comments or suggestions greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Actually...it is more Panerai then you think! In my eyes, the case looks exactly like this Panerai prototype from the 1980's (minus the crown guard of course). I'd prefer a different dial and I owuld get rid of the gold bezel marker. Other than that, the case IS very Panerai. That doesn't mean I would buy one though!

Thanks for the answers. I'll contact The Zigmeister, but I also don't think I can afford the service at the moment. I was also thinking about swapping the movement for a Swiss 7750, but gears would still have to be removed and the sub-seconds at 6 would still have to be frozen with the Swiss 7750. But the cost of service for the Asian 7750 may cost the same as the Swiss 7750 (which I assume was oiled and timed well before ETA sent it out!). Is there any harm (to the life of the movement) in letting the chrono function 100% of the time (for the center seconds)? I'm a medical student and need a seconds function to take a pulse.

I bought the IWC Ingie chrono a few weeks ago. Within 24 hours, it stopped working I love the Ingie chrono. Dial is a bit busy, but I like it. Its on its was back to the dealer for a replacement. I have read The Zigmeister's articles. So...looks like long term (even short term) reliability is not known, but judging from the design, it does not look good. To quote The Zigmeister: "If this was my watch, I would just take the running seconds gears out of the watch, freeze the 6-counter, and use the watch like this...." I'm not against the idea of freezing the sub-6, as its pretty small and somewhat useless anyway, IMHO. If I go that route: 1. Will the chrono function (center seconds and 12hr counter) still work? 2. if chrono function(s) will work, can I safely use the chrono functions? or does it put too much strain on the movement? 3. Can you {safely} leave the center seconds running all the time? 4. Overall, The Zigmeister seemed to really like the new 7750, minus the extra gears. So, if I remove the extra gears/freeze the sub-6, do u think that long term it can be a reliable movement (if serviced and oiled)? Once again, I love the IWC Ingie chrono, but I don't want a head ache. I want to wear the watch. And use it long term. I know its a rep, but I plan on using it. This is not a watch I plan on using for 2 months and selling. Or, should I just ask for the regular (non-chrono) Ingie instead (which has an ETA 2824) and have a known, reliable movement? Thanks for any help.

Nice pic! But in all seriousness, the 036 crowns look good IMHO, no matter which dealer. Those who own the 036 and have compaired it to a gen, how is the case and CG of the 036? I am still hearing that the cases really aren't 1:1 and neither is the CG. If anyone has any info, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!

I am kicking myself in the ass for not ordering a CG when I had the chance. I emailed him as soon as I heard he was down to his last few, but it was too late Does anyone make a 1:1 CG?? (I know there are projects in the works, but don't know of any 1:1 yet). Why is it that Jimmy can make a perfect case, bezel and CG and no one else can?? Anyone have any info on Jimmy's supplier?

WOW, that’s really beautiful! Reminds me of the SS & blue Tudor Subs, which Rolex did produce. Rolex produced some GMTs with a black dial and fully blue bezel insert for the Argentine AF a while back. A black dialed sub w/blue ring I think can look cool too. And believable, as you can claim you just used the bezel from a Tudor.

For the reccord, I am a certified diver and have been for over 13 years. What’s wrong diving with an Asian rep? I've been wearing a $150 Seiko when I dive for at least 3 years (probably more like 4-5, I can't remember). When I became certified, my parents gave me a Heuer, which I wore until I got the Seiko. Why don't I wear the Heuer much? Its Quartz If a watch is made well, if the machining is done well, gaskets are installed, there should not be a problem wearing it in the water. Just because a gen Rolex is $5000 and a rep $300 does not mean the rep is not equally as water proof. The main thing I find with reps is that there was often no love when they are assembled (along with minimal to no QC). So if a gasket is forgotten, or a caseback not screwed down tightly, the attitude was probably "who cares?" Many of the reps now have a high quality machined case. The tolerances are very good, just like gen. Look at IWC Ingie, Omega SO or Panerai for example. Many of the reps use the same/similar ETA movement as gens. If a $50 plastic Swatch is water proof enough to dive with, then a $300 steel rep can be made resistant enough to water to dive with. You should not rely on ANY watch, rep or gen. Gen fails too. This is why you always dive in a group, always have a “buddy”, and have a back up watch or dive computer (i.e. redundancy).

I must say DSN's watches looks great (other than the font on the dial). But I have been told that his watches are not 1:1. That they are slightly smaller in every dimension. Since I don't have a gen, rep, and a DSN rep, I can not comment. DSN's parts are unique for his watches. So other than the caseback, crown and crystal, parts are not interchangable with other reps, or gen for that matter. This is what is keeping me from buying DSN's watches. Can anyone else comment? Thanks

Very nice. The dial looks spot on, which is very good to know. How did you shorten the wire lugs? I'd like to do the same mod. I was thinking/hoping that I can file off a little material from the ends to get the wires to fit closer to the case. It seems easier to mod/shorten the wire lugs than to try to make new ones (which others have done). Which dealer did you buy the watch from? Thanks

Here are my 3 suggestions, all of which I have not seen mentioned: 1)Chopard Milla Miglia Chrono GMT. Its 42.5mm, and uses a ETA/Valjoux 7750 with GMT hand. Rep versions of movement available. 2) Breguet Type XX. Uses a Lemania based movement, but nor eason why an ETA/Valjoux 7750/3 can not be used instead. 3)New Chopard GMT. Uses an inhouse LUC movement, no reason why an ETA or Asian movement can not be used.

What?? No offense, why would u rep this watch? Its a private lable watch. The case is made by SUG, has a stock movement, and SEVERAL companies use not only this case, but the hands as well. If you want this watch, lets just have a group buy of cases from SUG. This watch SHOULD NOT be repped.

YellowHat: I heard stories like that before. One of the top cardiac hospitals is not too far from me (its actually were my father is on staff, he's a cardiologist too). A few years ago a guy handed out Rolex datejusts...he was from the middle east too...Atleast the money I pay for gas is ultimately going towards watches? I'm pretty excited now as I read your post about cardioversion and inotropes. I fully understand what your saying LOL. Cardio was my best "block in physio. I have endocrine & finals in 2 weeks thedoctor: I think its true that the average doc does not wear an expensive watch. But neither does the majority of the population. Most people cannot tell the difference between a Seiko and a Sinn. I do not recall any of my father's friends or partners wearing a nice watch. I have some expensive watches...but I rarely wear them. The watch which I have been wearing on a daily basis for about 3 years has been my Seiko "black monster." At $150, I think it is the best watch I own. It puts your average Rolex to shame. What I can't stand is how a former dentist of mine wore a 2-tone Rolex datejust. I hated how that watch would dangle in front of my eyes while he was trying to find a tooth to drill on. (I have 1 cavity, my teeth are perfect, other than my bruxism). I think it was tasteless of him. Everytime I saw that watch I felt likeche was asking me: "Want a root canal? you don't need one, but I want to buy another watch." Last time I have been to that dentist was over 8 years ago. Thank god my GF of over 6 years is a dentist. He favorite watch is a pink Swatch I bought her It was a special edition I bought at the Place Vendome Swatch boutique. It a pink jelly swatch which had a pink plastic flower on the strap, but the flower fell off . I believe the watch cost me about $50.

My god is that ugly! That watch needs a hand guillochage dial! That watch has Gerald Genta written all over it! I believe Gerald Genta also designed the Royal Oak? Not sure if he designed the chronos too. I think he just did the original RO, and AP modded it over the years. Genta also did the second generation IWC Ingie (the one prior to the one out there now). Other than the RO and Ingie (the new one, being an update of Genta's orginal design) I was never a great fan of Gerald Genta. Have you seen Genta's watches? IMHO, they are some of the UGLIEST creatons out there! and expensive too...isnt a retrograde Mickey Mouse watch like $50,000?

So let me get this straight...you r considering buying the watch becasue there is a chance it MAY get really popular?? I think the real question is, DO YOU like the watch, for what it is...for how it looks...for how it fits...etc? What is your goal? you assume/hope it goes up and you can sell it for more than you bought it for? Or that the prices go up, and you only payed $1500 for it? I'm sort of confused by your question. I have NEVER NEVER EVER let someone elses opinion (excpet my gf's ) affect a purchase. I've had friends laugh at me for buying certain vehicles (becsaue they had a reputation for always being in the shop!) I've had friends laugh at me for buying certain clothes, and I have had friends laugh at me for buying a certain watch. In the end, the only person I care to impress is myself! So...IF YOU like the watch, buy it. But buy it to use now. And buy it for what it is, a watch. Not a possible invesment. If you want to invest, than there are several people on this board you can contact, or PM me LOL (No, I am not a broker, I am a student). Personally, I'm not crazy about the watch, but its not too bad. I've seen AP, that have had similar designs. I also think that if you want to spend $1500, you can do a lot better. just my $0.02

If the MBWs have a 1:1 case...and assuming you fit a gen bezel insert and T39, then how can one not argue that its a gen watch that had a redial? Just curious... The only way to tell a gen from rep is to open it up and look at the movement...but lets say some guy on the subway pulled out a loupe and called me out on my 1665. How can he prove that I did not have redial and the watch is gen?

What kind of Dr r u? Im in med school at the moment. Maybe you're just in the wrong specialty? LOL My father, a physician of over 39 years has been wearing a cheap quartz watch for years. I bought him a Sinn 810 (Bell & Ross Hydro) 3 years ago...he still has no interest about watches, and does not care what is on his wrist, as long as it has a second hand (to tell pulse). My mom bought him a BEAUTIFUL Baume et Mercier a while back...I am not a fan of yellow gold, but this is one watch I like. Its paper thin, hand wound, plain matt silver dial with stick markers just at 3, 6, 9 and 12. Its so clean and tasteful. He only wears it for special occasions. which is only a few times a year. Its a shame, its a beautiful watch.

For starters, its one of the most accurate reps out there. Other than the date font and minute hand being ever so slightly short (both flaws which are difficult to see if the watch is not 1" away from your face) the watch is perfect. Ok, the Crystal should be AR coated too. The dial is beautiful. Not only is the case and integral bracelet solid, but they are finished and fit together as a gen. The details, such as the crown and bracelet are amazing. At first, I was not crazy about the design. But it was the same with Panerais too. The Ingie is a solid, basic tool watch. All that for about $275. Even if it did not say IWC, the watch is still worth the money. The Gen Aquatimer is one of my most favorite watches. But the rep was never accurate. The bezel, the dial, the size...it just all looks off to me.