RageRover

Automatico, I'm surprised after all these years, no one knows the source of these Vietnamese cases? You may have paid $550, But to make a decent rep with an old $70 ETA or new $65 SeaGull 2824 or similar movement will cost you likely in the $1k area and will require plenty of "case work"

I agree with you 100% and what you've said is a big reason i've put off buying a Rolex or Tudor "homage". I'm tempted to but a Tudor Black bay and a cartel 1665 Great White and some Silix "big Crown" cases to practice on. But I don't think I have the skills to make a decent replica case... maybe I can do a dial by blowing cigar smoke on it, a few drops of coffee & giving it a light spray of some matt clearcoat ... the bezel insert (metal) I'm sure I can give a "bleach bath", but ultimately a case that's off, at min, eerks me and I'd be afraid to get "called out" on it. The dial, if someone ever says something I guess i can always say "it's a bad re-dial!" Panerai, which has been growing on me over the years, the basic editions seem 98% to me & if you "age" it up a bit like its a 10yr old daily worn watch, i dont think you'll be called out on it. Maybe i'm wrong? What amazes me, is that in a time where you can 3D scan something for very little cost and CNC something for a low cost (there are plenty of on-line machine shops u just send your file to), NO ONE has come out with a semi-accurate case. Someone please correct me if im wrong, cant you buy a small home 3D scanner for a few $hundred? and a small CNC is a few $hundred (i've looked into it), if not, send your scanned file to a machine shop.

One of my dream vehicles, the RRC (Range Rover Classic) "CSK". It was made for the UK market, hence all are right hand drive, to celebrate the end of the 2-door RRC production & "CSK" - Charles Spencer "Spen" King who designed the original Rangie, which was 2-door until about 1990. He also had a hand in the original Mini and other Rover vehicles. I plan on either eventually getting one of he 200 CSK or easier and cheaper a standard 2-door, upgrading it to CSK-Spec and making my own "homage." Whats the difference in a "CSK" and a standard 2-door? The CSKs had a very (for the time, 1989-1990) luxurious interior we in the US only got. Lots of leather & wood. In Europe, you can get a "cheap" Rover with cloth seats, no wood... not even an AC unless you wanted it! Since all 200 were right hand drive, I'll likely find a nice 2-door RRC (Range Rover Classic) and make an homage. CSK unfortunately died only a few years ago due to being hit by a vehicle in London while ridind his bike. Although he was "high up" in the car industry, he rode a bike most of the time! Heres' Dunsfold's CSK Page

BEAUTIFUL, LOVE how you left the "aluminium" (not aluminum) bare and the steel pieces painted (or red primer? or was it out of laziness or waiting to be painted?). At the launch of the 90, Rover had a polished 90 and galvanized the steel parts (or at least the visual parts). Of course you have more $$$$$ in an Land Rover Series II/IIa thanks to the "prince of darkness." I get my parts direct from England, when I'm ordering a bunch of parts. Also usually have a friend importing one (or 3) and can throw some parts in the container. Msg me if you want to know where I've been buying parts for ages! I used to import Series & "Defenders" (everyone calls a 90, 110, 127/130 "Defenders"). A friend and I were doing it out of our University dorm room (as well as trading options & derivatives, risk arbitrage... basically hedging on a large margin). I havent imported anything in a while but plan to in a few months.... (lost a lot in the market.... having a LARGE margin KILLED me!). I still drive a D2 with about 135,000mi on it (yes, I had my head gaskets changed! Who hasn't). My family has been driving Rovers before I was born and we owned some rare factory ("SVO") Rovers. Currently we have 4. I have friends that have "fleets" of Rovers. A friend of mine has a PERFECT 101, had a 107, has a bunch of 110s, a NAS "Port" 90, a factory Swiss military 88 II/IIa. Another friend specializes in engine/drivetrain conversions on Series, "Defenders" & Classic Rangies. He was doing a lot of Mercedes Diesels and some GM 4 cylinder conversions for Series & 90s, 110s. I think he may be doing some GM V8 (LS & Vortec conversions... Vortec = an LS for the trucks, suburbans, tahoes, etc. Like an LQ4/LQ9). Why do you think my "nick" is RageRover? Dunsfold seems to own it now, it appears Land Rover did another polished & Galvy, unpainted 90 (300 TDi, R380) in 1998 for their 50th anniversary. Apparently the bulkhead (made of steel) was painted (according to the description) I guess in a VERY metallic silver. Other parts look Galvanized. But other parts appear painted in silver as well. I wonder what they did with things like the door the door frames (likely painted)? Dunsfold's page of the vehicle <http://www.dunsfoldcollection.co.uk/collection/defender/1998-show-car-for-50th-aniv>

I was never in to Rolexes (Rolexi?) much, but guess I caught the bug for a vintage 1665 Sea Dweller a few years ago. Saving up for a good case like a Yuki, Phong, etc. The bug also bit me when it came to the "Snowflake" Tudors. I'm not in to blue watches much either, but I'd LOVE a nice blue "snowflake" w/ a properly bleached bezel insert, a nice "bulbous" plexi and some modest aging by throwing the case around in a bag of coins. I sort of like the Tudor BlackBay (haven't seen one up close, which I should probably do before ordering one!), but also afraid to get called out by some "Rolex know it all"! If I do get a Blackbay I'm pretty keen on customizing it! Why not? A few things bother me about it though. I'm not a fan of the Snowflake hour hand yet it keeps the "standard Submariner" dial layout, why didn't they just do a Snowflake dial or use "needle" or Mercedes hands? IMHO those are some of the things that are sort of off and bother me a bit. So with a few mods I'd fix what I don't like! The beauty with a rep is you can do mods without too much worry, you mess up or don't like the results, you didn't loose much $ or ruin the resale of a watch you may want to trade or sell (something I've never done! I buy to keep!). I'd stick with "The standard Rolex/Tudor mods", maybe drill the spring bar holes all the way through like every Tudor & Rolex made prior to the Blackbay, how about a little VERY little aging (it's only been out for a few years, so I'd try for about 2yrs of wear?) using the "bag of coins" aging trick. I've gotta see the crystal it comes with... maybe I'd fit a more classic plexi that's higher & rounder? and the hands... gotta change the hands like I mentioned earlier. Maybe a Blackbay One homage... I do like the thin hands or can go with the classic "Mercedes". But where can I find a GOOD Blackbay One dial now? A few years ago when it was released/auctioned, there were several rep dials. Don't know about now. Last, how about a 7mm Rolex crown? or stick with the Tudor flower crown? I often prefer straps, a NATO may be a good fit. Although I sometimes switch around and wear a watch with a bracelet, like I do with my Seiko "Black Monster". Any input is GREATLY welcomed! Also, any tips on who has the best Blackbay at the moment? Or maybe case, dial, etc. After all of this I'm sure many of you are thinking why I don't just do a proper vintage rep/homage "Big Crown". Like a Tudor 7924 or Rolex 6538? To do it properly it would take $$$$. Like a case from Phong, Yuki, Ruby, etc. A good Blackbay rep can be had for the price of a Phong dial (I think!). Saving up to do a 1665 "Great White" later this year and hopefully a Tudor 9401 Snowflake... also craving a white dial PanAm Big Crown GMT with Bakelite (now plexi) bezel (even if it's a bit fantasy). Thanks for your time and help!

JMB/Justin, NICE job! If you don't mind me asking, what case are those pics of? Cartel? Other? Is it from the case you said you did a LONG time ago? What I'm trying to get at is it a cartel case? I'm sort of assuming if it's a Yuki, Phong, etc you wouldn't be installing the valve. Those (expensive) cases have a usable valve.

I know you've been asked this a million times! But, I can use some help! ANY & ALL with a Tudor SnowFlake 9401 and also a 1665 would be GREATLY appreciated! I've read all the guides (on multiple sites), unfortunately, a lot of the links don't work anymore. Yes, I've used the search feature, it helped a bit... But still dead links and/or no pics. 1) I'd like to build a Tudor 9401/0, aka a "Blue SnowFlake" 2) and a 1665 "Great White" (Unless you think the Double Red " DRSD" is a better choice, I'm happy w/ red too. If you look at the pics, Trusty seems to have both correct 1665 case backs) My budget for each watch, as low as possible ($500? +/-). * For 1665, It seems my choices are basically "Cartel" (which supposedly has better crown guards now), the unavailable MBW or possibly another TD. Any other choices? Most seem to go Cartel for a budget build. I can't afford a Yuki, Phong, NK, etc now. Hopefully in the future. From Trusty: RVIN024A "DRSD" or RVIN024B "Great White" which are both the cheaper 1665 versions, not the revised version for $50 more. Just to making sure I order the correct watch! Do the Cartel 1665s (like above) have the proper dimensions (thickness, diameter, etc) to gen or are at least are very close? And even closer after working on the case? How about HR/"Helen"? I haven't seen a newer 16600 or old 1665 SD case offered. But maybe it's available? Toro has a decent looking 1665 "DRSD". As do some of the other TDs, although most say they're the same? Does anyone/any TD have access to "NOS" MBWs? I understand that PT/Andrew's 1665 is different than Cartel. Im not happy with the case back either (sorry Andrew). * Now what about the 9401? Once again, most seem to go with a 5513 Cartel? Maybe a 1680? I understand they're stamped 1665, but does that mean their shape is based off the 1665 and they're very "off"? Like too thick? Or it just needs some time with a file or Dremel and you can get pretty close to something from Yuki or Phong? I know every case has it's fault and nothing is perfect! **Does a 5513 or 1680 Cartel case have the proper dimensions (or very close)? Or it's really a 1665 case and too thick? Or... Is the 1665 too thin and really closer to a 5513/9401 Some have gone with the HR case for a 5513 or 9401 build, which may be closer in shape? I had another idea, Is a 16600/16601 a decent start for a 1665 project? How do 16600 dimensions compare to a 1665? Yes, the 16600 case back may cause a headache, I'd have to drill spring bar holes and the helium valve is different. For the 16600 valve, my friend welds... The valves are just glued in, even the Cartel 1665 have glued fake valves. Maybe "pop out" the 16600/16601 valve, weld up the hole, finish the case and eventually drill it for a real valve from Yuki? Yuki has an ETA 16600 $185 case/dial/hands/crown/crystal? I was only able to find one post, it didn't get high marks, to put it gently. And supposedly no amount of work can fix it? I plan to do all/most of the case work myself (I used to make jewelry, silver cigar tubes & cases, etc as a hobby). So I think as long as I go slowly and keep measuring, I'll be ok. If I need help, I'll deal with it when I get there! Overall, I have a decent idea how to age the case, I was able to read that link! What parts to use (Yuki, HR or Frei hands, bleached Frei or Clark insert w/ Frei or Yuki 12:00 "pip", Clark Tropic crystal, gen or an Athena (sp?) crown, and maybe a Clark bezel (reports say Cartel bezel improved) or maybe try a round file to slightly "sharpen" the bezel? If you think a part is better (in looks, quality, price, any reason!) than another, PLEASE tell me! After the case, I'd say the major question/issue would be the dial. Most seem to like Yuki? But there's also Ken, HR, FleaBay (fake or re-painted Singer)... There are others, I just don't have their links or address. Feel free to PM or email me, I'd be forever VERY grateful! If you have a preference for any parts or any tips, please let me know! Hopefully the Asian 3135 movement will drop in price & get a proper finish and Rolex factory engraving soon, like the Panerais! Thank You Very Much for your time & help!

IMHO, I think it's in "super rep" territory. Sure, if I had gen next to it, there would be some things I can nit-pick about, but it really does look spot on. You pointed out, the hour hand is a hair short. But I really don't think anyone would notice. I don't think it's a tell that it's a rep. I really don't think the hour hand is that short, maybe I'm wrong? I've been considering getting one, I haven't bought a watch in a few years either. I do love how the gen & rep does pay tribute to the 100yr old original. That said, it was originally part of the aircraft's instruments, not a watch. I also think a "coin edge", turning bezel would have suited the watch well. Lastly, the PVD versions are technically more authentic because that's how they were originally sold. I've noticed the price is starting to come down a bit... But the "good" version is close to $300 (although it's starting to drop closer to $250 by some TDs), which I still think is a bit steep for basically a simple large watch... It's like Zenith's version of a Panerai (46.5 Without the crown) when something like an IWC Pilot's chrono or Breitling chrono are in the the same price and quality range. I hope I'm not wrong, but I think it'll drop closer to $200 (I hope), and maybe then, I'd pick one up. That said, as much as I like it, there are a bunch of watches on my list I want much more than the Zenith.

Your're killing me, Great Build! After 10yrs of being in to reps (never bought many, always bought or at least tried to buy the best, 1:1s, etc.) the Panerai bug (and Rolex, I NEED a 1665!) finally "hit me" about 2yrs ago. I want to pull the trigger. I've read everything I can, but just more confused. It seems for a Pam Noobie, the Noob 111 is the one to go for... supposedly, minimal mods needed, can be worn out of the box. I like the weight of a watch, so I was never in to titanium too much. That said, titanium has a great, grayish finish, which is also brushed. Probably the reason I love your build so much! With the Pam 111, it also seems like a relatively affordable (~$250 +/-) depending on where you buy it from. But like I said, I'm sitting here drooling over your pics. Like Rolex, there are SO MANY variations, limited editions, etc, after a certain point, can you really say with 100% accuracy whats real and whats not? Like I said, I think a Pam 111 + I want to add a solid back, and basically I have 2 mods in mind: 1) Gold "classic hands" like on the Pam 605 and Polish the top on the cannon (which doesn't seem it really needs going by pics). I do love looking at movements, but a closed back will certainly "confuse" or maybe stop someone from saying "you bought a fake. NO ONE, EVER called me out on any watch and some were worn in to authorized dealers (ADs)... Great build. I'm truly jealous, because I don't think I can do it... I'm afraid I'll likely mess up and need a new case! For a fee, would you be willing to mod my lugs? Or, would you mind going in to a bit more depth about what you did? Just sand paper (I'm assuming 400-600 grit at 1st, maybe then 800? then 1000? 1200? to finish it off with a nice factory brushed finish? Thanks for any help and thanks for the pics... i can NEVER get enough pics!

That's it, after drooling over Trusty's page for a year now, I'm ordering one! Years ago I kept procrastinating about buying a "real" MBW SeaDweller or Patek... now you can't get them. I procrastinated about so many things, you can't get what I procrastinated about and when/if they come up for sale, the cost is double or triple what the seller paid! The Vintage Seamaster 300, All the TD's have them listed on their websites. I've been dying to get one for a while, I just wasn't sure how accurate, mainly the case, it was. They're available with and with-out date & with/with-out the famous "big triangle" at 12. All the major issues that Omega "experts" look for, seem to have been fixed (oped 6 & 9, having some of the markers on the bezel being very yellow, spelling errors on the caseback, the shape of some of the caseback letters, specifically the "A"s. Which are supposed to have a flat top and not look like this: "A". (To me, I'm no expert!) The dial seems pretty accurate... the 6 and 9 are "open" as I said, if you go for a date version, there is a white line or border on the dial surrounding the date indicator. The case back engraving looks correct to me, All the issues seems fixed, like I pointed out. I guess the only (or possible?) dial flaw one or two have pointed out is the Omega logo... the "feet" are not 100%, HONESTLY, is anyone really going to notice that on day-to-day use? IMHO, they would have to be wearing a loup and closely inspecting the dial. Even if they do that, I think they would need to have a genuine dial next to them to see the TINY LITTLE "feet" of the Omega. You can buy a gen dial for about $300-$350 if you want for Frei, Cousin's, Watchco... But why bother? If you look at Watchco or Frei, the dial is pretty darn close, if not 100% (if you excuse the logo feet, which I really haven't stared at for hours and see a major issue). IMHO, the bezel insert looks to be pretty spot on too! * My main question and concern is the case... is it really far off? Is it really that bad? Anyone, PLEASE comment! I've never shaped a case before, but lets say there is a member who has modded cases, can this one be modded to be closer to or made to look pretty close to the original shape? Basically, can it be improved? Or it's just totally off/wrong and can't really be fixed or improved much? Like many others pointed out, considering the rep costs UNDER $200 and the genuine case alone is $2000-$2500 or more (and that's without dial, movement, crown, in some cases without a bezel, etc.), even if the shape is off a bit, but still close, the rep, is anyone really going to call you out on it?? Especially if you age it a bit? It's supposed to be a 40yr old watch! (shake the case up with a bunch of coins, nails, etc... sand some of the deeper grooves... polish... do it again... than do it again! I think the case should look good after 3 "rounds." You can do the coffee or cigar smoke trick on the dial? You can get some tarnish going on the hands with a mix of water, salt and vinegar (see the guide on how to age). If the dial and hands don't come out like you want, Rafflestime/Ken has new/"NOS" dials and hands for you for basically less than 1/4th the price of what you paid for the watch. Rafflestime/Ken has dials that may (or may not?) be better for VERY little (IMHO, they're likely from the same supplier). Also, for half the cost of an Omega Seamaster 300 marked dial, Rafflestime/Ken has sterile dials too... if you would feel more comfortable going that route? **Anyone know what replacement crystal/acrylic it uses? OR more importantly, will it fit?? Lastly, like one or two other members have pointed out, you can fit an Omega movement. If you're lucky, you can probably pick up a 552 or 565 Omega movement from an old Omega "dress watch" on fleaBay for $200-$250. Cross your fingers, hopefully it'll keep good time and you can procrastinate on getting it serviced! That said, it's a closed back, so no one will see the movement! There are a few people out there that offer a custom made display back (which was never offered by the factory, especially on the vintage models and when Omega actually made their own movements, which you would actually like to see! (and didn't run to ETA!), The only reason I see to use an original 552/565 automatic, is if you can fit a display back (which I'm not usually a fan of). I also guess, if you're really looking for authenticity, than I can see the desire for an original movement. But once again, closed back... no one can see whats inside, why waste the $? Correct me if I'm wrong, If you/someone do have a display back, that would likely take away a lot of questions, assumptions, comments if it's genuine, etc (not that I expect ANYONE to open their mouth! It has NEVER happened to me, if someone said something, it was a compliment (which was usually about my 13yr old or older $125 Seiko "Black Monster"!)) Sorry for the long message. Just my $0.2 !

You mean "Pleather"? or since this board is mainly about watches does PU = "PleathUhr"? LOL (Uhr = watch in German) How about PU = "Pee Eehhhhuuuuu" (the smell!) I would stay away from anything made from Polyurethane (i.e. Plastic, fake leather). It won't look good after a few uses, leather won't cost too much more, leather often becomes nicer with age I don't mean to hijack the thread, but since we are talking about Hermes,can anyone help me out please?! I've been searching for Hermers accessories, like their leather bracelets and cuffs, and especially their "Chaine d'Ancre" bracelet or accessories (anchor chain in French). (see attached pics). I'm not too concerned if it does not look exactly like the picture, and there are lots of colors and variations, the pic is just to show you what I am looking for! There are several versions, (big or smaller chain/link), color (gold, silver, brass?). I have lots of pics available it anyone needs/wants more. Leather Cuffs / Bracelet Examples (just giving examples of similar things I am looking for, doesn't have to be exactly the same!) Once again, I have lots of pics, just trying not to make the post too long!: Yes, there are lots of similar "anchor", "nautical", or "boating" chains out there...but men, you know how women can be! (sorry ladies, not trying to generalize or sound sexist, just talking about my gf!). My gf loves it, and I would really love to get her one. If it says Hermes and has a nice orange box my gf seem to like it more (or her friends like it more, which means my gf will like it more!) LOL Thank you very much for any help/leads! I REALLY REALLY appreciate it!

I've been holding off on the 3717 for a while. I was never too crazy about it, until I tried one on at the dealer the other day. Now I cant stoop thinking about it...I NEED one! But after reading all the posts about how inaccurate the V2 dial is, did I miss my chance to buy one? Are there any dealers still selling the V1 dialed 3717? Unless someone has a spare V1 dial (or complete watch) they wouldn't mind getting rid of (for a price of course). What am I to do? Any suggestions? thanks!

I'm going to throw my $0.02 in and see what you think. How about using the MBW/MBK 6541 Milgauss as a start? It will accept a plastic/Bakelite bezel (which can be ordered from Classic Watch Parts), also takes a genuine/genuine-sized crystal. I thought the MBW Milgauss 6541 has the proper dimensions and thin case? I thought the only major flaw with the MBW 6541 is that the crown sits too low. BUT...what about filling the hole and re-drilling/re-tapping the hole in the proper place? Filling the hole shouldn't be too difficult...have a machine shop (maybe even a bicycle shop) TIG-weld the crown tube hole closed. The question is: if you re-drilled the crown tube hole, how would that affect the fitting of the movement? Will u then be forced to remove metal from the rehaut? I've always wanted a PanAm 6542 and have been thinking about this project for a while. Other than going with a $1000 Vietnamese case, I think your best bet is modding a MBW.

I'm sure the rep makers will come out with it sooner or later. Looks liek the same watch, other than the PVD coating. If you own the watch already, you can always send it off to be PVD coated. Which I think is the better way to go. Although rep makers claim their watches are PVD, they never do a good job with the coating. Either they just paint the case black, or they use a very thin PVD coating which never seem to look as good as gen or last as long. There are several members who can help you with PVD. Just my $0.02

At first I thought it was too trendy, too avant garde for me, but I'm starting to like it. I'm more of a traditionalist when it comes to watches, but the C-1 is growing on me. Long term, I wonder how the black plastic bits will look/wear (on the rep). Are they plastic/rubber on the gen? or PVD metal? These are pics of a gen, which I stole off eBay. I like it better than the Hubolot. And as a rep, there should not be any movement problems, as it uses a standard 7750 (no extra gears needed). Looking forward to see what the rep makers come out with.

Amen! I agree! I can't stand the pearless insert. I hate the look of the hole! I never understood nor believed that removing the pearl made it look "vintage." Rolex fit a pearl for a reason...I'd replace the pearl. The insert itself though, looks amazing. I love that bleached look that is a result of 30+ years of cancer causing UVA/B rays. I personally wouldn't touch the case too much. Over polished and "rounded" cases tend to devalue the watch. Even a vintage Rolex should have fairly sharp corners (unless it was overly polished, which according to Rolex collectors, would devalue it). Yes, its banged up...but it is a work watch...that is its purpose...so it was used as the manufacturer intended. I would just give it a gentle polish. We are so used to looking at enlarged pictures. But in reality, a gentle polish would fix or at least smooth out many of the scratches. Damage looks a lot worse when you're viewing it at 1600 x 1200 dpi! Other than polishing/sanding down a lot of material off the case, I don't know what can be done about deep grooves and scratches. Unless restorers literally weld small chunks of stainless steel to the the case and then sand and polish it back into shape? If you really need to have a new/NOS looking case, you can contact IWW. They do case restorations.

How is the MBW 1680 as a starting point? I've had such a Tudor project in mind for years already. I think its about time I finally follow through with it! The MBW accepts gen parts, as several have pointed out. So I'm thinking about starting off with a MBW 1680 submariner, add a Clark crystal, blue bezel insert, hands are available from Classicwatchparts, and the gen uses a pretty much stock ETA (I can just keep the ETA 28XX that comes with the MBW). Yeah, the case back wont have "Oyster Case By Rolex" engraved on it, but I have seen gens with standard "clean" Rolex backs. So not having an engraved case back does not necessarily mean fake. In addition, I never take off a watch and hand it to anyone. So its not like anyone will see the caseback anyway. If you MUST have a Tudor caseback, once again, Phong has it...another $450 or so. The "only" thing that I would have to do is the dial. Obviously this is the centerpiece of the watch. And externally what really differentiates it from a Rolex. I was just thinking about getting a custom dial or redialing the MBW dial. I don't have connections...but there are plenty of well known dial refinishers out there. I dont think it will be much of an issue to do one dial. A redial won't be cheap (I'm expecting a few hundred). Phong also has Tudor dials (asking price is about $450). But once done, I should have "the perfect Tudor" (IMHO). Basically, does anyone know if the MBW 1680 is a good starting point? The case shape should be about the same...as with all good MBW projects, drill the holes, mod the crown guards a bit. But case should be good. My concern is that I remember reading somewhere that the MBW dial size is a bit off compared to gen? or I think it was something about how MBW uses the 1680 case for their 5513 rep...and the 5513 uses a different dial size? So a gen 5513 dial doesn't directly fit (mods needed). If this is true, I remember reading that Rolex used the 5513 case for the 9411? Any help is appreciated.

In the auction stated above, Classic Watch Parts was the seller. They often list them on eBay. As far as I know of, Classic Watch Parts is the only company making (or having them made for them) the "Snow Flake" hands. At least they are the only company I have seen selling them. And they have been selling them for a while now. I don't understand why there are no reasonably priced and obtainable Tudor Submariner reps out there? There was the Watchmaster rep and there is the Vietnamese rep (i.e. Phong), does MBW offer a Tudor rep? Some posts imply that MBW makes a Tudor rep...but if they do (did?) why doesn't anyone who deals with MBW (i.e. TTK) ever offer them? Unless I can obtain a good rep, I've been planning on building my own using a vintage MBW sub as the base. I have seen Tudor Subs with a "blank" (i.e. Rolex Sub style) case back. Not having "Original Oyster Case By Rolex" engraved on the back should not be a reason to assume a Tudor is not gen. In addition to the Tudor Snow Flake hands, Classic Watch Parts offer some other nice parts. They are the only ones (as far as I know off) that offer an original "Bakelite" bezel for the 6542 GMT.

avijiggybear & c0r said it. People are interchanging and/or confusing two different dials. There is a "graphite" dial. The entire dial (subdials & tachymetre ring) is the same color. This dial should also have the word "automatic" (next to the date window) printed in red. Then there is the "Slate-Gray" dial. As others have pointed out, the gray dial unfortunately is not correct. The gray dial is lighter in color then the "graphite" dial. The gray dial has darker subdials (black in color). The tachymetre ring on this model should be the same darker black as the subdials. The word "automatic" is printed in white. Currently, no one produces a correct "Slate-Gray" dial. The dial is close and its nice, but its not correct. The major flaw with the "Slate-Gray" dial is" The tachymetre ring should be black like the subdials. All of the reps left the tachymetre ring in gray. The most accurate dial would be the "Graphite" dial, with the red "automatic." That dial is all one color (i.e. the subdials and tachymetre ring are the same color as the rest of the dial). If you are interested, I believe the black dial with white/silver subdials (affectionately nick named "The Panda Dial") is pretty accurate, as well as the all white dial. http://www.trustytime88.com/index.php?main...roducts_id=1028 I tried to be as clear as possible. Hopefully you understood everything I said! Good luck!

I agree. In all honesty...why not just wear it...and dont declare it. In addition, rules are always different for used items. I'll check the customs rate for you, but I used to import vehicles. Used cars have a duty of 2.5% for example. Anway...wear the watch. Spend the $100 and have the box sent FedEx. Thats what I would do. Thats what friends have done.

Saw the pics over on TZ last week. Breitling just released the official pics on the 22nd. I sort of like it. But I also think its too similar to Omega's PO chrono. Doesn't seem too difficult to reproduce. Hoping the soon to be released SuperOcean Heritage (non-chrono) will be as good (dare I say "as perfect as") the Steelfish. If the Heritage Chrono is as good as the other Breitlings out there, I'd buy one. But I would prefer an Avenger Skyland first! I would love the Blackseal, but I don't trust the makers to do a good job on the blackened finish.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately it wasn't what I wanted to hear! I was hopping the dial would be perfect. With the 111e, other then the "A" on the dial, (not counting the lume) how is the rest of the dial? As far as number shape and fonts? I was considering a closed back like you mentioned (thus making it a Pam001 I believe), so that would take care of any issues with the movement. Although I think the movement looks pretty good. Yes, the engraving is a little off. But they now come with the proper "dagger." Are there any Panerais with a perfect dial? The 183 and 210 look good to me, but the case is off (too thick compared to gen). I like the 111h with the sandwich dial, but the numbers are off. Other than the 111e or 217, I dont think there is a better Panerai rep. Are there any Panerais with a perfect dial? Thanks again for your help.

I can't decide between Angus' 111e or 217h. Both look 99.9% gen to me. The 111e looks great out of the box. No pinion problems, dial looks perfect, case has thick guard. 217h looks great as well. Only problem I see is the pinion, which would need the longer version. Anyone have any comments? Which watch is closer to gen? Thanks for any help and all comments.

Awsome post! Thanks Lani! Ok, its not gen, but who gives a S*&T! People mod their gens too! I think this is a really nice alternative to PVD. Love the color. IMHO, nicer than PVD. I've been wanting OxyClean a Panerai...but first I have to buy a titanium watch. Also have such a long list of things I want to do! The only thing I dont like about titanium is the weight. I love the feeling of a heavy watch. Titanium is too light. But, its such a pretty metal...I think I'm going ot have ot buy one! Im not into bling, but saw a polished titanium F.P. Journe the other day. Beautiful! So also toying with a polished Pam177. Titanium is supposed to be a [censored] to polish. But result can be amazing. Once again, it won't be factory original...but who's to say it was a gen watch I had polished?