RageRover

Please guys, can something be done to get a proper 000/005/111/112 Panerai CG out there?? Considering all the difficult detail work that has been done on the PO, I don't understand why a proper "H-series" crown guard is not out. Not to mention, the H-series CG would also be the proper one for the Pre-V watches. Is it that difficult to get a proper CG out? or is no one really interested? The CG on the 127 and 217 is correct, so it can be done! Please guys...its honestly holding me back from ordering. I'd buy a 005, 111 and a 201a, but the improper CG is stopping me. And I know, that there are many many people who would also kill for a proper CG. Can you atleast look into it and ask your producers if an H-series CG is something they can incorporate on to newly produced Luminors? Or what the cost would be for a small run? Thanks!

I think this the case for a lot of watches. I think most of the reps are water resistant. Find a local watchmaker you trust and have him/her service it and waterproof it. Or send it to someone like The Zigmeister, Finepics, etc. Keep in mind, although a watch (gen or rep) says water resistant, does not mean you can/should go swimming with it (as others have pointed out). A dive watch, sure, you should be able to take a swim...but how about a dressy chronograph? Most of the time, even with gen watches, water resistant means "feel free to wear while washing your hands and if you get caught in the rain, no need to stress." And just to add, you should NEVER wear ANY watch in a pool. Chlorine drys out the rubber seals. Which is also why watches should be serviced on occasion.

AMEN. THANK YOU! There were so many watches I was excited about, only to read 100 posts about "this is not perfect and that is not perfect." I love watches and many of these reps give me a chance to own a watch which I can not or do not want to afford at the moment. I don't want to be called out for wearing a rep! But after a ceratin point, I think I may be getting too anal? Take the IWC Ingie, I have been ready to pull the trigger on this one for a while. But I keep reading about how much the date font sucks, then the minute hand is 1/100th of a picometer too short, and the crystal has no anti-reflective coat on it...other than that, its perfect. After thinking long and hard about flaws on a watch, although a flaw may exist (and it will, its a rep) 1)do these flaw really detract from the watch? 2)How likely are they to be noticed? Something like greenish lume may be noticed on a white dial (as pointed out) it may not. But if thats really the only thing wrong with the watch, I highly doubt someone will call you out for wearing a rep. With the Ingie, in real life, unless someones face is 2 inches away from the dial, no one will ever notice the date font or hand length. Overall...I think we are too anal retentive sometimes. Think about it! Your getting a high quality rep for $300? the gen is 10x that... just my $0.02

I do agree that the watch should be polished, but looks brushed in the pic. If you go Antiquorum and view the original pic, you can get a huge blow up of the pic. You will then be able to see that the watch is indeed polished, and not brushed. Panaerais were also not highly polished...just polished. So finish seems good. It also seems that Antiquorum scans their auction catalog. They don't just upload the original pics. Which is why they always seem a bit off.

I suspect the watch will hit about $60,000 US (~ 27,500 Pounds Sterling). Have u looked at any of the auctions a few years ago. Such as mid to late 1990s? The sold for less that 1/10th of the current prices. I saw an auction listed at something like 8000 CHF! (I believe about $5000 US).

I'd give my kidney for a GOOD rep Omega Ploprof 600! Ok, maybe not my kidney, just a lobe of liver. I'd give a kidney for a Ploprof and SM300. PLEASE SOMEONE ATLEAST MAKE THE SM300!! PLEASE. I've been dying for years...there are a few "Homage" pieces (i.e. Eddie Platt's Precista 300) out there from other companies. I've thought about Frankening one of them with an Omega dial. I wonder if it would work?

Very cool. Notice the dial! There goes all the assumption that the Germans only recieved non-marked dials...and/or they recieved mostly unmarked dials becasue they were spares that were lying around. I believe this is the first Panerai discovered which was issued to the Germans and actually says Panerai on it? Thats the same spec watch as the Italians. A total of about 700 Panerais were made I believe? Unless my memory is wrong, about 300 3646s were made, about 300 6152(1)s, a bunch of 6154s, 50 (not counting a few prototypes) GPF 2/56 for the Egyptian Navy and prototypes here and there. VERY VERY few have traded hands. ~700 watches is rare, but its not like ita a needle in a haystack. Its interesting to see new Panerais pop up and the stories that accompany them.

What I dont understand is, why can Jimmy produce (or have someone produce) a proper CG, yet none of the reps seem to have a proper CG?? I've been impressed with many of the new reps (i.e. IWC Ingie, PO), why can't they just make a proper CG?? especially for the H-series Panerai.

I agree with TK471 as far as DSN's crown being the best out of the box. Overall, Palp's crown is nicer. Maybe its the extra 2 or so teeth? The grooves/teeth on Palp's crown seem more defined. I would prefer Palp's crown, but if I bought one of DSN's watches, I think his crown is close enough that I would not change it. Finepicks once showed how there is so much variation with gen crowns, that IMHO, DSN's crown is still pretty good.

Very nice trio! Thanks for posting the pics. Its nice to see reps next to gens to compair them. Judging by the pics, the cases on the reps look to be 1:1 with your gen? How would you rate the cases on your reps? are they truely 1:1? The crown guard on the 111h is so nice! I wish someone would make a proper rep of the H-series CG. Going by the pics, it seems the CG is the only part which is not accurate. if you don't mind me asking, who did you buy your reps from? Thanks

The only first for Omega is first (and supposidly only) watch worn on the moon. The first watch worn on an EVA was a Poljot/Sekonda "Strela" Chronograph. Soviet cosmonaut Alexey Leonov was the first human to step into the vacuum of open space, he did so wearing a Sekonda marked Poljot chronograph (March 18 1965 first space walk wore white Sekonda). As far as what was the very first watch worn in space, there has been a lot of argument about that. Supposidly the Rodina that belonged to Gagarin WAS NOT used in space. It was presented to him after his trip. The first watch worn in space is the Shturmansky (NON Chronograph).

Nice watch! Im just a bit confused, as you are calling it a "Fraken-pam." Are there any gen parts on it? Or is it a franken of various rep parts? If there are gen parts, what gen, whats rep? Thanks

Davidsen just added those today. Like Tropic said, these engraves were added after the war, and varied per individual. The Keller group kampfschwimmers probably have the most famous engravings, but there were ones done by Italians too. IMHO, I like to go after originality. Which would be no case back markings for the Germans. There are many Italian military issued Panerais that have case back engravings. Usually a squad code such as SMZ and a number, which was most likely the watch number for that division. However, there is a bit of arguement when they were engraved. Some argue that they were not engraved until after the war, as some watches were supposidly used through the 1970s. But even if they were not engraved until after the war, I prefer authentic military markings. Just my $0.02 You may want to visit Paneristi. Ferretti, one the premier vintage watch dealers and Panerai experts has an article on Panerai caseback engravings/codes . http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/mess...4/back+engraved

Panerai really still uses it? I did not know that...but then again, I haven't really looked at the Sub 1000. I prefer the historic line and the vintage 6152s and 3646s (and the one 2533 made). I wonder why Rolex does not use it anymore on the Sub? My understanding is, most companies do not make their own dials. They are farmed out to the dial making companies (the largest of which was just bought by the Swatch Group!). So I don't think licensing is an issue. I think companies switched over to SL not only becasue it does glow brighter (for a shorter period though) I think as it ages, it does not develop as much (any?) patina. I love that yellowed patina that tritum gives. But I believe that 99% of people want their watch looking new for as long as possible. I've been a certified diver for over 14 years now...I can say that if you are a serious diver, you're not wearing a Panerai. I have never seen anyone wear a Panerai on a dive. if you do wear a Panerai, its 1)new at diving 2)just for shits and giggles...and you're wearing a dive computer on the other wrist. I'm not into computers...I hate digital...I use a waterproof plastic dive chart and 2 Seiko automatic watches (for redundancy). Been toying for years about a Rolex sub. Love the history (Comex, etc) hate the image (mall watch, everyone assumes you bought it to show off). Would love a vintage Tudor sub (especially if it was used by the French military) but would not feel comfortable taking it on a dive and beating it up like my Seikos. A new Rolex, I would have no problems using it the way it was meant to be used.

I will definately take 1 (for an H-series). Thinking about a second 1 for a 5218. Count me in for 1 at the moment. Thanks.

I like it! I have to admitt that I was never crazy about white dialed watches, but the more I hang around here and the more I look at your pics, my mind is changing.

Apnea? What does it do? Count down until I snore? I sort of like it though...

LOL I dress like a bum, but I wear a Seiko diver most of the time waiting for a Fiddy...then I could look like Artie.

what? Whats wrong with Audi? the new S4 will eat an M3

I think the Panerai reps out there now are 99%. The case, the crown guard, the crown, the movement, the hands, the buckle...only thing is the dial. Dials are pretty close, but geting the exact font, the exact thickness of the font, exact color...that can be tricky. Just ask Davidsen As far as cost goes, I think the base Panerais are about $4500. The Panerai movement is a modified ETA which retails for about $60. Davidsen, JimmyZ and others offer perfect cases, crowns and crown guards for under $200. So why is it that Panerai is $4500?? Is a $4500 Panerai better than a $350 Davidsen? IMHO, NO. Not to start a major discussion on business and free market econ, like others said, Rolex sells all their watches. As does Panerai. They charge those prices becaue people pay them! Like many industries, alot of the money you pay for a product goes mostly to things like advertising, product development, expansion of the company, etc. Take the clothing industry. I know several people who manufacture for companies like the GAP. Maybe I have been lied to (although I have no reason not to believe what I have been told) in one factory there was cotton polo shirts being made for Walmart, while on the other side of the room shirts were being made for Armani (or some other high end retailer). Most of the reps seen in this form are very high quality. Chances are, the cases are made using the same computer controlled milling machines that the gen factories use. And since many companies use ETA movements (although usually with a better finish), those are available as well in many reps. So what is the difference between reps and the gens? Often, its small insignificant (to the function) things. Like the font on the date wheel is not exactly the same as the gen (i.e. IWC Ingi). And that is why reps will never be 100% the same...becsaue some font may be off, some logo may be a bit to small or large...but IMHO, the case and movements (if you are dealing with higher end reps) are usually pretty good.

Why is it a big hassle? I guess I jumped the gun an replied prior to reading all the posts, sorry...but I opened up a savings account at the same bank as my chequing/checking account. Thanks to the internet, it takes a total of about 10 seconds to transfer money between accounts. Which once again, are at the same bank. Took about 15 mins to open. Once paypal clears, I transfer money to my savings account (which Paypal likes to take their time doing... ) and once in savings, transfer to checquing where it can not be touched. Not a hassle, not a pain in the ass. Its usually all done via a few clicks of the mouse in my underwear at 4am. Im really worry about your experience...as I said, I understand, it has happened to me. But if I refuse to take Paypal, then it means not selling as quickly. easily and for as high a price as I want (when I do sell stuff on eBay). The majority of people are good, but the bad ones make it seem like everyone is bad!

WHERE IS THE GUY LOCATED? PLEASE SAY USA! I've had a similar problem, happen with computar parts. is he is the us, and you are in the US. SUE. I am serious, and I know all of you Europeans are going to laugh! But seriously, SMALL CLAIMS COURT. You have to file where business took place, it was on the internet, thus you get to sue him from your home town. If he does not show up, you automatically win. He looses, u have the right to collect. You can them contact a collection company and although u may not get 100% back, you will get something, and atleast make the guy's credit suffer. IN ADDITION, this can possibly constitute bank fraud, although u must ask a lawyer about that. And that is often taken VERY seriously in court. Good luck, but I know what u r feeling. I've heard some horror storries with Paypal, but never believed them. But problem is, especially with eBay, its sort of the only payment that "seems" safe. Bank wire, no protection for buyer. Paypal, not a lot of protection for seller. I NEVER leave money in my Paypal account. Second I get a payment, I transfer money out to different account. Which then gets transfered out to a second account. If there is a reversal, which I have yet to experience again, Paypal is sure as hell not getting the money from me!

I thought I was the only one! if it makes u feel any better, I lost $$$$ trying to smuggle in Cubans. The first 3 times worked flawless, friend in Europe removed the bands, sent the box and bands seperate. Than one day I said, just send me 3 boxes...still removed the bands and box. But customs caught me... And not only that...what really impressed me was that they knew exactly what cigar they were (and the US value). Remember, no bands! My favorites were the Sancho Panza Belicosos and Hoyo Epicure #2s. This was 10 years ago. Of course I figured it was a one time thing, so i did it again, this time with 1 box if cheap Fonsecas (very undervalued cigar by the way). They got through...but after that I cut down on my smoking and havent had a cigar in a few years. Although I still have a humidor with some nice stuff...I know I have a few Serie D, some Upmanns in a tubo and bunch of other stuff. What do u guys write on the customs declairation when u send the watch? Why not "warranty repair" or something like that?? When i had cigars sent, they would write cigars, in country of origin they would write a "legal' country, like Dominican Republic, etc.

They are called "open ended watch straps." Do a google search for "open ended watch strap" or band and you will get a bunch of hits. I have seen them before, they often have 2 metal "tangs" which you bend down, and voila! That said, all of the ones I've seen are ugly IMHO, do what they did on the gen Panerai 3646, sew it on. Here's 2 pics from Antiquorum: http://images.antiquorum.com/131/medium/122.jpg Buy a nice strap, take it to your shoe maker, show him your watch, and have him help you. You can also ask him to make you a strap. I happen to be a medical school student and very good with a scalpel (I was even asked to be a dissection assistant last semester), so I'd be more than happy to take a watch strap apart for you! lol I think as long as you find a strap made of nice, thick leather, I don’t think it would be too bad to remove a few of the stitches at the top of the strap (where the spring bars normally go through) and then re-sew it.

I realise they do speak German as well as French in Switzerland. They also speak Italian. Switzerland has 3 offical languages. Schaffhausen is in the German speaking area of Switzerland. IWC was the first and only watch producer in North-East Switzerland (the German speaking area). F.A. Jones specifically moved to Switzerland to mass produce and sell low cost watches! IWC was the first watch company to "modernize" watch production by employing assembly line techniques.