Raijor

I just bought two from Andrew Black&Blue. I bought the models that have the correct "solid gold" middle link. I know all the flaws on this watch crown too big, gold off color ect. Ill never wear it around people who know these watches but that goes for all my reps. So does anyone have these watches? What are your impressions? I have read By-tors excellent article but the models he reviewed had the incorrect middle links. Are the newer versions of this watch better than the models he reviewed. Im worried now cause im reading stories of brass tarnishing through gold in as little as a couple of weeks?

I have black and gold sub purchased from Andrew. It is the 14k version I usually wear it a couple of times a week and so far looks good. I have about a dozen watches so none get worn any more than a couple of days in row. I believe based on limited wear it should stand up very well. It has about 5 microns of gold plate. When competed to other plated watches I have had 5 microns is about half the thickness of say a Longines. I wore a 10 micron 14k Longines 3 years before the base metal showed through. This was wearing that watch every day.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how well your gold plate will wear. I am assuming you have the 14k version rather the 18k version as I have now experienced with that version.

Cheers

I just bought two from Andrew Black&Blue. I bought the models that have the correct "solid gold" middle link. I know all the flaws on this watch crown too big, gold off color ect. Ill never wear it around people who know these watches but that goes for all my reps. So does anyone have these watches? What are your impressions? I have read By-tors excellent article but the models he reviewed had the incorrect middle links. Are the newer versions of this watch better than the models he reviewed. Im worried now cause im reading stories of brass tarnishing through gold in as little as a couple of weeks?

I have black and gold sub purchased from Andrew. It is the 14k version I usually wear it a couple of times a week and so far looks good. I have about a dozen watches so none get worn any more than a couple of days in row. I believe based on limited wear it should stand up very well. It has about 5 microns of gold plate. When competed to other plated watches I have had 5 microns is about half the thickness of say a Longines. I wore a 10 micron 14k Longines 3 years before the base metal showed through. This was wearing that watch every day.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how well your gold plate will wear. I am assuming you have the 14k version rather the 18k version as I have now experienced with that version.

Cheers

Doesn't look very impressive - 1 guy - 1 box of reps and recycling shredder - a publicity stunt to make it look like the authorities are doing something about reps?

Googling around and found this site

http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/counterfeit.shtml

With some amusing quotes

"Why do people buy fakes and what does it say about them?

Through years of studing fakes and talking with people about them, we have never heard any good justification for buying or wearing them... only excuses why some people believe they deserve the perception of owning 'luxury' products without having to go to the effort and expense to buy the real things.

Curiously, people who buy fakes seem to have a contradicting thought process. They act like it is 'only a name' when they choose a counterfeit product with a premium brand name on it. Counterfeit buyers seem to be ignorant of or ignore the real merits that make the genuine item far more valuable than the fakes--they just consider one watch to be about the same as any other.

But they obviously consider the luxury name brand important enough that they are willing to accept items of highly dubious quality and origin just to get that brand name on them. So we have yet to find how to interpret people's willingness to pay for counterfeit versions of 'the name'--especially when they have contempt for or ignorance of why the name is valuable--as anything other than wanting to cheaply impress themself and others.

Here's what buying and wearing fake/counterfeit watches really says about the wearer:

1. Poor Grasp of Value - Replicas are made to sell by looking like something far more valuable than they are. They are seldom made for quality, carry no warranty, are made from cheap parts and are usually not worth repairing. They are basically overpriced disposable products, so are a poor value for your money.

2. Lack of Integrity - Those that choose cheap replicas to try to impress others that they have a real luxury watch are using falsehoods to represent themselves. So that makes people wonder what else about how you represent yourself is false.

3. Weak Ethics - Choosing replica watches shows the world that you are willing to support unethical and illegal businesses--not giving a care about the ethics and legalities involved if they get in the way of getting something that you want cheaply.

4. Gullible - Especially where someone unknowingly buys a fake, they show themselves to be easily deceived and someone that throws caution to the winds trying to get a super deal on an expensive item.

5. Isolated - Certainly there are no clubs for owners of fakes. No comraderie among fellow owners. No sharing of tips, tricks and performance issues. No assistance with operation, warranty or repair issues. Fake buyers are on their own with nobody to care, nobody to help and nobody to compliment or encourage them--except for the occasional person you might encounter that doesn't know enough about watches to realize you are trying to 'impress' them with a cheap counterfeit.

"

Lol. Probably been here before Im sure...

This illustrates the power of branding and marketing. The following quotation shows how deeply the marketing behind luxury goods has penetrated the minds of some people.

"Through years of studing fakes and talking with people about them, we have never heard any good justification for buying or wearing them... only excuses why some people believe they deserve the perception of owning 'luxury' products without having to go to the effort and expense to buy the real things."

I do not understand how people can or can not be "entitled" to buy anything. what a bunch of knee jerk simpleminded thinking. This kind of thought process creates an assumption that luxury consumption must somehow be earned. Following this form of logic - any genuine item purchased with anything but earned funds is undeserved - lottery win, nope can not use that money, inherit money from your parents estate, no way you deserve to buy a new watch because you did not earn the money yourself.

IN TRUTH SUPPORTED WITH FACT - Consumption is one of the few democratic areas in a person's life. Consumption is simply and complexly the exchange of value for goods or services. It has no meaning and confers privilege on none. If the case were not so, providers of luxury goods have a litmus test other than ability to pay to decide who can purchase their product. Perhaps. Imagine going into a Rolex dealer with cash to buy and being turned away because you were a taxi cab driver. It just would not happen.

Rant Over.

Cheers

BIG`s

Very nice indeed !!!

Thank you for clarifying this fact. However, I was talking about buying replicas from the forum, as that is the entire point of this thread. My apologies for not making that clearer, even though in all my previous posts I mentioned it.

Your links clarify that point here: "According to the RCMP's protocol with Justice Canada, our priority for investigating counterfeit products targets commercial manufacturing, importation and distribution. Investigations at the retail level are generally dealt with in the private sector through civil processes."

They do point out that it will be a civil and not criminal case at the retail level though, so I willingly concede that point.

Thanks for clarification and no concession necessary. Different jurisdictions have different priorities.

Cheers

I think you are misinformed. Canada's national police force the RCMP makes it clear on its website that Canadian law does not make it illegal to buy or own replica merchandise if it is for personal use.

I direct you to the attached link - Royal Canadian Mounted Police Department's own web site which details legality of buying and owning Replicas:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fio/intellectual_e.htm

Points number 5 reads

"5. If I contact the police or the company because I think I’ve purchased a counterfeit product, can I get into trouble?

The implications of purchasing a product knowing it is counterfeit are outlined in the response to question #1. Possession of counterfeit items is not a criminal offence in Canada as long as there is no intent to distribute them."

Point number 1 reads

"1. Why should I worry about buying a counterfeit product?

First of all, if you purchase a counterfeit product, you are hurting the legitimate economy – this means lost jobs and lost tax revenue. Second, you may be funding organized crime or a terrorist group. Finally, counterfeiters spend nothing on quality control and therefore do not care about what happens to consumers who use counterfeit products such as electrical devices that catch fire, pharmaceuticals that contain no active ingredients, or children’s clothing that is not fire retardant."

Do not take my word for it that it not illegal to purchase and own counterfeit items in Canada - check out the RCMP web site.

It is not even a crime to download and copy music from the INTERNET in Canada - refer to point 6 on the RCMP web site.

"6. I have a friend who downloads music from the INTERNET. Is he breaking the law?

Downloading music for personal use is currently not a criminal offence in Canada. However, this legislation is constantly being challenged and it would be wise to check often to ensure that the laws concerning this practice have not changed"

The RCMP protocol for counterfeit investigations deals with commercial operations in this area.

"8. When does the RCMP investigate counterfeit products?

According to the RCMP's protocol with Justice Canada, our priority for investigating counterfeit products targets commercial manufacturing, importation and distribution. Investigations at the retail level are generally dealt with in the private sector through civil processes. "

As you can see for yourself the Royal Canadian Mounted Police makes it clear that in Canada it is not illegal to purchase or own replica merchandise if it is for personal use and not for re-sale.

Cheers

Believe me, this has nothing to do with copyright law and that statement couldn't be further wrong. As signatories to the Berne Convention, the US and Canada share the same copyright laws as the Eurpean Union countries.

This has everything to do with trademark laws instead. In Canada, you basically adopted the British trademark law and replicas are not legal. They are trademark infringements and if the trademamrk holder chooses to act against you, you will be facing a criminal, not a civil, case. However, I assume Rolex et al choose not to enforce it as strongly in Canada, as your government isn't as open to corporate interference as the US.

Bewawe - I had this tried on me in 06 when selling a watch on eBay. Was contacted later by eBay that the acount was hijacked. Good luck

Hi guys,

I need some advice and help here.

I recently listed a collector's vintage cue on ebay. A US ebay member contacted me and asked me about shipping to her customer in Japan, who is interested in the cue. I suggested that if she purchased it from me direct, I will end the auction early and I quoted her a much higher price. No reply from her for 2 days.

The auction (3 day auction) ended this morning with no bids at all. This evening, she paypaled me the money direct and suggested me to send the cue ASAP to Japan, giving me the details of an address in Japan with a Japanese name.

So what should I do? Does this sound like a scam??

I heard that it is possible to cancel a paypal payment via the credit card company..... but I am not sure how many days after the payment is made.... Also, what if the credit card used is a fraud???

I have taken out the money out of my paypal account.... If she cancels it after I send the cue, can paypal still charge to my credit card???

I checked her ebay profile... member since 2002, active till now... last transaction in October 2006... rating of 30... all positives... no negative feedbacks at all..

I will wait till the money enters my bank account in 5-7 days and then send the cue.... Is that ok??

Any advice will be much appreciated. THanks all!!

Kai

In Canada it is not illegal to purchase or own replica merchandise, It is illegal to purchase or own Narcotics in Canada. I note that you are from France and perhaps your laws are different, but in Canada it is only illegal to sell replica merchandise. It may be an illegal hobby in France but in Canada the hobby is not an illegal activity for buyers and owners.

Each country has their own laws respecting copyright infringement In the U.S. it is even a violation of American copyright law to import a legit Rolex watch by mail unless you are an authorized Rolex dealer. U.S. customs will interdict and seize the offending legit Rolex when ever one is discovered. I do find it very interesting that an American can purchase a Rolex in another country and wear it home without fear of seizure, however, if coming by mail from out of country not. As long as the laws in Canada remain as they are, people in Canada are not engaging in an "illegal hobby" when they buy and own replica merchandise but Rolex et al could however bring a civil action for damages on the basis of copyright infringementagainst a buyer / owner of a fake Rolex. This action is not a criminal matter, but rather a civil one and the action would only be for monetary damages with no governmental fine or criminal record and punishment being levied. The issue is not a matter of smuggling in Canada. Value is placed on the item and duties and taxes are applied to the imported item. I have had 2 Rolex replicas purchased from Joshua that were inspected by Canadian Customs and Revenue and forwarded on to me. I imagine this is not possible in the EU generally. I really am happy to read about the replica situation in other parts of the world - it puts things into perspective for me.

The following quotation is taken from James Dowling's web site.

"Rolex & USA shipments

In an attempt to protect their trademarks Rolex USA have registered their name & designs with the US Customs. Because of this US Customs will seize all Rolex watches which have not been bought new from an authorized US retailer. There are only two possible exemptions to this rule:

When the watch has been bought overseas and is being imported by the purchaser in person and is declared to the US Customs on entry to the US. This exemption is at the discretion of the individual customs agent and normally covers only one watch per person.

If the purchaser can produce a letter from Rolex USA or the company’s attorney authorizing them to import the watch. Please note in over ten years that I have never known any collector or dealer to be able to obtain such a letter.

Because of these restrictions I am not prepared to ship ANY Rolex watches to a US address, however if you are able to provide an address outside the US or are prepared to collect the watch in person or via an agent then the transaction can proceed. Please note that the 72 hour approval period starts when your agent collects the watch, NOT when you eventually receive it."

http://www.ukwatches.com/frame.html - link to Dowling's web site

In Canada there is no such problem vis a vis importing a genuine Rolex watch either.

Cheers

Two points. When they're looking for drugs, like you say, and they find counterfeit merchandise, should they ignore it? And, it may not be illegal to own or purchase, but smuggling and conspiring to smuggle counterfeit items over international borders is illegal, so unless you're buying them from a bloke down the pub, you're breaking the law.

Why do customs make our lives difficult? Because we're in an illegal hobby and we know it. If they see us while looking for bombs, weapons and drugs, they're not going to ignore us. People, we are smuggling and we should be aware that at the very least we're deliberately avoiding import duty. The sooner we realize we're not the victims here the sooner we'll stop being so complacent about it.

It is not illegal to purchse or own replica merchandise in Canada. The sale is illegal however. All prosecutions in Canada have been for the sale of counterfits. The purchase of counterfit items falls under copyright law and counterfit items can be seized by customs. The buyer can not be prosecuted. Rather, it would be up to the copyright holder to take civil action against a buyer. I am in Canada and have recieved watches from Josh that customs has inspected and allowed through.

Advice to all: Do not use Fedex or UPS as they will inspect and report counterfit items to Customs agents. It is likely Fedex that caused your probelms by reporting the watch to be counterfit to customs. Regular mail provides the best option for shipping replicas. Good luck in the future!

it is in all countrys illegal to buy fake watches... not only in germany

i hope panerai don´t make much trouble. Maybe they send me a warning...

i never order a new watch... i will no more customs problems... it is to much risk

if Joshua refund my money i were happy. If not it is ok (it isn´t Josh´s problem, it is my problem)... and i learn from this story.

fedex is very bad in germany... i have 2 times held a parcel from customs with fedex shipping. A friend has also lost one parcel from fedex by customs...

What a shame - efforts would be better spent catching actual criminals such as drug dealers etc. In Canada it is not illegal to purchase or own replica merchandise.

Keep you heads down EU members.

users from USA, Asia or Australia must not afraid.

But user from germany or EU should be afraid, because here in Europe are hard laws against reps.

last year was closed a german rep forum and some of the user has problems with police now.

Maybe you can buy reps in USA, Asia, Canada or else on street, beach, small markets... but here in Europe the authorities will kick your ass

you think it is a joke... no it isn´t joke. Here in europe are all authorities crazy. One example: i have ordered a genuine alligator strap on ebay. Customs held it and the geman authoritities has charge me a fine of 50.000euro. It is no joke. First time i thought maybe the seller has send me a genuine 7m alligator from Florida????

after 6 month, many letters and a good work of my lawyer and some hundret euros... it ends with a warning.

all this trouble because a $40 alligator strap. What will they do if they find all my 20 reps?

i know someone from outside EU can´t understand our afraid... but here is Europe... here is reps very DANGER

IMHO

Contraband in all its forms has existed through history.

A unified global effort will be needed to just reduce it. and stopping it will never be possible A unified global effort can never happen because individual countries only care about their own economic interests. For example - the U.S. has no dog in the Replica watch fight - it is almost a completely a European issue. America has pressured China respecting counterfeit items - but focusing on music and movies. If the Chinese follow traditional values it too will press forward only Chinese interests. Do the Chinese care about what Germany, France, Switzerland et al think about its economic policies ? I do not think China does. All the photos of the Chinese cracking down on replica sellers are really nothing more than publicity shots.

As for the effect of China hosting the Olympics - it will have no real impact on Chinese economic or human rights policies. The world is begging for access to the internal Chinese economy. The Chinese hold the winning hand. Push and a country is shut out at the sole discretion of China. If Europe pushes too hard on a crack down on China regarding counterfeit items the U.S., Canada, Russia, Australia, South America will use that as an opportunity to strengthen economic interests with China. If the U.S. pushes too hard regarding counterfeit movies and music other countries will use that as an opportunity to strengthen their economic ties to China. The western economies can not push China around less they lose favored trading status with China. Billions upon billions of dollars in new business are at stake in being able to do business within China and this potential dwarfs the revenue lost to counterfeits.

The world economies will never present a unified force in an effort to force the Chinese to make a real crackdown on contraband. There are just far too many disparate interests involved.

China will rule the 21st Century.

Hit me !!!! Great collection

all in

When dreams meet with reality - what a rush - earned success is the best success - it is yours and can never be taken away from you - best of everything to you in your new endevour !!!!!!

This afternoon, I recieved a delivery card from Canada Post, and I was so excited at the thought of recieving the Ti IWC GST I had ordered from Craytonic a week ago.

Instead, when I went to pick up the letter, I found out it was not a package, but a simple envelope from the University of Toronto sent by registered mail on Monday. I tore open the envelope in excitement, and lo behold, my life has changed! I have been approved for PhD studies in Management and Economics at the Joseph L. Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto this coming September 2007. I sent my application in early, and I was surprised that I had already recieved an offer, as the application deadline was January 2 I think.

Dreams in life do come true if you work hard towards them (that was the motto of my high school "Success through hard work") and that is what I have learned from all this. Now I hope I can join the faculty of the University of Toronto after graduation from the PhD, and slowly work my way up to professor.

These were the qualifications I had:

- Completed International Baccalaureate Diploma with a score of 42 out of 45

- "A" average in all 4 years of undergraduate studies in Commerce at the University of Toronto

- "A-" average in 2 years of MBA study at The University of Western Ontario

- 10 years work experience in Finance/Accounting

- Chartered Accountant professional designation.

- Thorough involvement in the community and volunteer experience

help requested for my mod on my TT Sub dial and bezel upgrade. I am preparing to buy a gen dial and gen bezel for my Blue TT sub and have a choice between two different dials. There is a difference in color between them - one is very dark blue and appears almost black from certain angles, and the other lighter as on the current Gen models. Both are advertised as genuine and I like both sellers feedback on eBay. My question is - should I go for the dark navy which is advertised as coming from an older model or go with the current blue which is advertised as coming from a newer model? I know that the newer blue will maker my watch look more accurate. Did Rolex ever make a TT Sub with a dark navy dial or is this possibly a re-dial? Thanks - here are pics of the two dials.

Deal with Luenfat and expect the worst: Wrong items shipped, items never shipped after months. This eBay seller can be very difficult. Buyers are better off finding another supplier. Just my experiences dealing with Luenfat.

Yep, they work great, they're just not cheap at $30-40 each. Even that guy down in Sugar Land, TX is proud of his. Outlet whatever he calls himself. And ofrei and julesborel have em too as I recall. Luckily for my older Datejust, a Luenfat overlay from Hong Kong with open 6's and 9's works well and for under $15. But somone was having trouble getting stuff from Luenfat, was that you, Tribal?

I keep wondering if the Chinese will ever make an ETA/Rolex datewheel. Pop out the stock ETA datewheel and pop in the Rolex datewheel that lines up w/ the window on the dial like for a 3135 movt. Probably wishful thinking.

Contact the seller and ask him to provide you with a repair invoice. This combined with a Paypal receipt will do the job. Good Luck !

Great people = Great forum!

for christmas present from me to u , since u have it uncased , send it to me and leave it alone so not to damage your crown and i will install u a brand new tube for christmas

i hate hearing those horror stories and it sounds u gave it your best and u tried hard, just email me or pm for details and i should be able to fix that up for u in a jiffy

merry christmas

joe

I have searched extensively for a white gold plated Rolex Daydate and only found all stainless or yellow and red gold plated versions. Have white gold plated versions ever been available in the past or are they now available? Would appreciate help on this. Am I looking for a Unicorn or are they out there?

I go for the Rolesium Yacht-Master. IMO The most beautiful watch out there with the possible exception of the Platinium Daydate. JMO - as beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Great photos!

What do you think of the watch? I have been looking forward to reading a review of the 076, so your impressions would be appreciated.

Yes - please post your thoughts on this watch. It looks terrific in the photos. Does it have the same visual impact in person? Thanks

I like the work you have done.

Now that is ironic. Crazy world.

Nope, but I have been called out on my gens.

Have you ever been called on your replica? I have been wearing my new Trusty Sub LV for over a week and nobody has commented on it. I get the feeling most people are just not into watches and that they are rarely noticed.

I am new to the rep collecting world and new around here. The reps that I have purchased include an LV SUB which has been received and SS YACHT-MASTER I am waiting for. Both are from Andrew at Trusty Time. The LV SUB is amazing for a $188 U.S. watch. I have read about the differences between the current Rolex reps and the Gens and that has led me to wonder when reps began to get so good. I remember seeing the old quartz Rolex watches in the 80's which were easily seen as fakes but nothing between then and now. Does anybody have the history to share some of the evolution of the rep? Thanks in advance for your time.

The LV Sub came and it is a beauty. You guys are right about how addictive this is. I haven't received the YM and I have started shopping again. What a blast this is but I have to limit myself to only one more this year.