themuck

Someone has bought this blatant fake for E8,550 despite my best efforts to contact ebay and reply to their acknowledgement with a full explanation of all the defects and my repeated questions to the ebay powerscammer that were all greeted with a 'we know what we are doing and it's got nothing to do with you' attitude.

I now believe the seller knows that this is a fake but has continued with the auction - no responsible and honest seller would continue with any auction after all the obvious flaws have been pointed out, even if they originally posted it believing it was real

If this is a rep Omega Reign - do you know where can I get one that's this good without mods etc?

I'll place my order today coz it's got to be the most accurate rep I've seen - and I've been all over this forum, other forums and all the dealers websites for weeks now looking for the 1;1 Daytonas I've always wanted but apparently don't exist.

Many thanks for the post Omega Reign - does it make me a bad person to actually want this to be a rep so I can dream of getting one as good??? Sincerely hope nobody gets scammed tho.

I am contacting him by using the the 'ask seller a question' (it's Frage an den Verkaufer on this German page) link at the top of the page.

There's less than two hours left, there's been 15 bids and its over E8,500.

Obviously ebay are not interested or they would have at least suspended the auction - sent seller another email pointing out all the flaws and they contacted me back to say they think I'm 'crazy' because this watch is definitely real and I should be 'minding my own business' because they know best

It all comes down to buyer definitely always beware on ebay - because their responses don't sound like they are what they say they are or how they project themselves and their products on the bay

There's less than six hours left on this auction and someone is going to get stung on this one.

Thought I'd do the decent thing and report it to ebay and contact the seller.

Response from ebay was the standard acknowledgement and from the seller - they think it's real!!!

I think we need to bombard ebay and the seller to stop someone losing a large amount of money here - some people just aren't as knowledgeable as the members here and on the face of it the seller seems genuine so it's an easy scam to carry off.

...and why no research amkinvestor...

...and why don't you let other members and readers of the WM9 forum know about RWG, TRC and RWI...

...and why do you think everyone is laughing at you...

Many thanks to TT, all the other Moderators and all the members for 'outing' this now obvious plant. It is admirable such safeguards and close scrutiny is in place to protect newbies and everyone else - Thank You

@amkinvesting - after reading the responses to your original and subsequent posts in this topic, why on earth have you not just searched and read each and every Submariner post on this forum and elsewhere (TRC and RWI) to see how your rep compares?

It is blatantly obvious that the trusted and knowledgeable Members on this forum have pointed out a number of key factors that should mean you are at least questioning your rep and the dealer who sold it to you.

But you are clearly determined amkinvesting and seem to have a great deal of respect for WM9 and its products - so why don't you plaster their forum with full website references to this forum, TRC and RWI - after all, you are not George and have no affiliation with WM9 so such a gesture would surely demonstrate your independence and the obvious flood of WM9 customers and members to this forum (who have all paid 4/5 times what they should have) will make for interesting reading for the rest of us.

Merry Xmas George & All Who Sail Into You

Seasons Greetings To Everyone.

As you probably already know, I've posted a couple of polls for your favouraite rep of the year and the rep you think is the most accurate out of the box in 2006.

I've asked the Moderators to close / lock the topic on 1st January so there's still a few days left to post your support for the ones you think deserve your vote.

The 'Favourite' poll is here -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17501

And the 'Most Accurate Out Of The Box' poll is here -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17575

All The Very Best Of Health & Happiness For You & Your Families

themuck

N.B.

Well over 4300+ views of 125 posts by around 50 members - nice one crystalcranium

Merry Christmas Members.

There's less than a week left to vote for the rep that you think deserves the 'Most Accurate Out Of The Box' crown for 2006.

There are a few reps that are stretching ahead but there's every chance that could change before the New Year.

The vote for your favourite rep of the year is here -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17501

Happy & Healthy Holidays To You & Your Families

@Moderators - Will you please lock this topic on 1st January?

Thank You

Merry Christmas Everyone.

Less than a week left for your votes for your favourite rep of the year.

The vote for the rep you think is the most accurate out of the box is here - http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17575

The IWC Ingenieur and Omega Planet Ocean have a healthy lead for the favourite title...but that could all change in the next few days or so.

Happy & Healthy Holidays To You & Your Family

@ Moderators - Can you please lock this topic on 1st January?

Thank You

Yet again By-Tor sets the standard for outstanding reviews

Another essential read for every Noob and everyone else as well

Happy & Healthy Holidays To You & Your Family By-Tor - and everyone at RWG, RC and RWI

Worth A Look - http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=replica+watch

Pugwash's excellent review of the IWC Flieger with plenty of high quality pics and comparison shots is here and well worth a view -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17583

Well Worth The Wait

Cheers Pugwash

You couldn't be more right if you tried Pugwash - by the way, the frost's about an inch thick so you'll need your woolies from the 20th

I fully agree with your legitimate point about fooling 99.9% of people By-Tor...but I have plenty of friends and work colleagues who have beautiful gen Daytonas and Subs so with the lack of accurate reps it's a total rep Roley no no for me - until that perfect day arrives

Can I just open this subject up a little bit and suggest that the business logic behind the manufacturer's strategy could be costing them even more profits!!! I can honestly say that I've been tempted by around 25+ reps that I would have probably bought (over time) in addition to the five Roleys I would have definitely pulled the trigger on immediately - that's 30+ watches (seems to be an average amount for a collector).

But, because of the lack of accuracy and quality issues I've learned through this forum, I'm going to buy just 4 watches - where's the business sense in that?

And if manufacturers produce more 1:1's that are commended by trusted and knowledgeable members of this forum - I'll almost definitely buy them as well, regardless of make or model.

Kenberg again makes a vary valid point. But again their business model may not make real commercial sense. Imagine it's January 2007 and the true Sub 1:1 finally becomes available - everyone buys it. It's now February and the Navitimer 1:1 is out - everyone buys it even if they don't necessarily like Breitlings. March comes and it's the Constellation 1:1 - again everyone buys it even if it's never going to be on their wish list. April arrives with a JLC...May something else...June etc etc. Before the year is out absolutely everyone owns a dozen 'perfects' and by the end of the next year that doubles!! - and at the same time they are still selling Sub's by the cartfull without any further R&D, tooling etc.

Maybe they just haven't thought about this yet...maybe they are more interested in the quantity of the easily satisfied masses as opposed to the quality required by discerning collectors...and maybe they haven't worked out that enthusiasts might even be prepared to pay more for the very best and will probably buy even more makes and even more models that collectors aren't even currently considering.

Wow - a lot of excellent points very well made about a subject that is clearly frustrating to many experienced members.

This newbie was about to buy the (three!) Daytonas I always wanted until I found this forum and discovered that would not be a very good idea for a multitude of genuine reasons. Would have bought an SD and Sub as well but the industry I work in is awash with them and I would have been 'outed' in a heartbeat - so what's the point of enduring the inevitable ridicule.

At the end of the day, if newbies and those who just don't know any better don't spend the time and make the effort to research this and other forums (or they absolutely must have a Rolex or move in circles that wouldn't know a rep even if it said Boleks on the dial) and keep buying the current stock, there is no real incentive to upgrade and improve models. And maybe that goes for everyone else as well - if it aint truly accurate then enthusiasts and collectors just maybe shouldn't buy it then the manufacturers will have to produce real 1:1's if they want our business.

My research and activity on these forums would suggest that, out of the thousands of reps available from our trusted dealers, there are just four worth buying if you want real accuracy - IWC Ingenieur, Planet Ocean, Speedmaster Chrono and Tag Link Chrono. I'll probably buy all of these to start my collection but, after reading the advice and guidance available here, I still know that I'm going to have to send all of them to a local watchsmith to be modded (even slightly) checked, lubed and pressure tested etc - meaning there is no true out of the box perfect rep!

We all accept less than perfect products from manufacturers that have the capability to provide perfection - and if we continue to do so then there maybe is not and possibly never will be any incentive for the manufacturers to change their strategy of offering numerous generations but never a true Ultimate / Perfect rep (despite what some dealers may claim). So we give up our hobby - no. Stop buying nearly there but not quite reps - no. Start persuading dealers to push manufacturers to deliver what the customer really wants - ?

Excellent topic MJP and on a subject that I too have been wondering about.

As a newbie I wasn't even going to start to respond with any reasoning and simply keep watching the topic for posts and congratulate you for putting this subject up for debate MJP especially after reading jfreeman420's well written post.

However kye_lin may have an excellent point, especially when you consider there are examples like the Planet Ocean which is now in its 6th / 7th generation - how many people have bought other generations and are now buying ultimate PO's?

In addition, looking at views expressed elsewhere in this forum regarding perfect reps, I am staggered that there seem to be very minor flaws with some models that can be modded fairly easily, especially by a local watchsmith and, perhaps even more astonishing, is the fact that no Rolex models appear in any top ten or other perfect lists.

Surely after so many years in the industry, manufacturers know that Rolex is the brand that is possibly the most famous, probably the most desireable (I started looking for a rep because I've always wanted a perfect Daytona - looks like it will never happen) and a true perfect Sub will rake them bucketloads of money.

Maybe a possible answer would be for dealers to work with manufacturers and post multiple pictures of prototypes in this and other forums and incorporate all the feedback they receive into the production version. This would perhaps mean that everyone is working together to produce the best possible reps but that also begs the question - do dealers and manufacturers actually listen to the comments posted here and in other forums? - because if they did, we'd already have those elusive perfect Sub's, Bentley's, Daytona's, Seamaster's, Offshore's etc - wouldn't we!

I know what you are saying and fully appreciate your comments ajoesmith but a couple of members pointed out that the wording was not correct and crystalcranium's original topic and posts were all about the most accurate out of the box - not necessarily just members' favourites.

I did think about this before posting the original 'favourite' poll because a true 'most accurate' poll would need a lot of knowledge of the contenders to know which one was best (not just for newbies) and that's why I provided as much links as I could so members didn't have to spend a lot of time and effort finding out about the shortlisted reps - it's the least I can do for members as I've learned so much from all the topics, reviews, posts and comparisons on this and other forums.

There are some who blast onto this forum, do little or no research, ask questions that have already been answered numerous times previously, contribute nothing except rude arrogance on the forum and generally p.off all the valued members who have a great depth of knowledge and are kindly willing to share it with all of us - I'm not going to be a lazy newbie that just expects others to do all the work for them.

And don't panic - no more polls from me until at least this time next year at least lol.

Happy & Healthy Holiday To You & Your Family My Friend

Reckon both polls are very relevant and interesting tho coz a member's favourite rep will probably be different from the rep they believe is the most accurate out of the box.

I know you guys are absolutely right about the question for the poll and I did think about this before posting.

But I thought it would be difficult (not just for newbies) to compare all the contenders (even if you have a personal preference) and search all over the place for reviews, comparisons etc etc to make real balanced and informed decision.

Having said that, I've now taken on board your welcome comments and posted a true 'Very Best' topic poll with as much reference links as I could find and hopefully this will help members make up their minds and take a lot of the effort out of researching the contenders.

As you will see, I've spent an obscene amount of time putting the topic together because it's the least I can do for members whose, topics, posts, advice and guidance have helped this newbie a great deal (which is very much appreciated) and the 'Ultimate Perfect Rep' might just be the 'Ultimate' topic!!!

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17575

Hope You Agree

You can vote for your favourite rep of the year at -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17501

But what's the very best - most accurate to the gen - out of the box - rep of 2006?

- It doesn't have to be your favourite...

- You don't necessarily have to like it...

- And you might never buy it...

But, IYHO, it's the most accurate out of the box rep of the year that we can all go out and buy today.

The shortlist is the same but the poll is very different and the results could also be very different but equally interesting - so for your convenience I've linked reviews, comparisons and other judging information for all the contenders to help you decide.

I've spent a lot of time finding and posting as many relevant links as I can (I know there are plenty more and please post them here to help members) so please spend a little bit of time considering the information about the contenders prior to voting. You will need to be logged into RC and RWI for some links.

Who Deserves Your Vote and the Most Accurate Out Of The Box Rep Of 2006 crown?

PLEASE post your reasons why you think the rep you voted for deserved and earned your vote and please post links to info I've missed that members might find useful.

The contenders for your consideration are (listed alphabetically) -

Breitling Bentley GT

Franck Muller Conquistador

IWC Flieger Chrono

IWC Ingenieur

Omega Planet Ocean

Omega Seamaster Pro

Omega Seamaster Chrono

PAM 050

Tag Heuer Link

Tag Heuer Link Chrono

Following is information you might find useful when deciding who deserves your vote.

(You will need to be logged in to RC and RWI to view some links)

You might want to start with crystalcranium's excellent 'Iyho, What's The Most Perfect Replica Available Today' topic, which has around 4,000 views of 120+ posts by well over 40 members and is where this poll and the 'favourite' poll started - http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17016

Breitling Bentley GT info -

http://www.breitlingforbentley.com/en/

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=26151

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=9152

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=24279

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=16052

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=16049

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=7492

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=7064

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=13368

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=9933

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=8109

Franck Muller Conquistador info -

http://www.franckmuller.com

http://www.franckmullerusa.com

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=8403

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=11623

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=7696

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=1887

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=3867

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=16815

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...?showtopic=3689

IWC Flieger Chrono info -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17274

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=14643

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=13799

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=14031

Link To Pugwash's New Review Will Be Posted When Available

Please Post Links Of IWC Flieger Chrono Info To Help Members

Link To IWC Official Website Seems Inactive -

Please Post Links Or Advice Of IWC Website To Help Members

IWC Ingenieur info -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=14735

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=13493

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15795

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15187

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=25901

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12456

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=19040

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12654

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12891

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12742

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12408

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12318

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12160

Link To IWC Official Website Seems Inactive -

Please Post Links Or Advice Of IWC Website To Help Members

Omega Planet Ocean info -

http://www.omegawatches.com/

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=7483

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=26971

http://replica-watch.info/forum/about1661....f5d9dca3f2ae402

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=159

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=7357

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=10628

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=3459

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=27996

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=8428

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15795

http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1536

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=2852

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=21069

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=21961

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=5243

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=23947

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15282

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=14506

Omega Seamaster Pro info -

http://www.omegawatches.com/

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=4509

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=14104

Please Post Links Of SMP Info To Help Members

Omega Seamaster Chrono info -

http://www.omegawatches.com/

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=14104

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15282

Please Post Links Of SMP Chrono Info To Help Members

PAM 050 info -

http://www.panerai.com/s_page.xpd?id_lingu...mp;id_sezione=1

http://www.replicacollector.com/members/in...showtopic=26856

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=2699

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=2762

Please Post Links Of PAM 050 Infor That Will Help Members

Tag Heuer Link info -

http://www.tagheuer.com/

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17093

Please Post Links Of Tag Heuer Link Info That Will Help Members

Tag Heuer Link Chrono info -

http://www.tagheuer.com/

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=1010

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=9437

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=15282

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=13892

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=5642

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=13649

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=10332

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=6935

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=12247

PLEASE post your reasons why you think the rep you voted for deserved and earned your vote and please post links to info I've missed that members might find useful.

Thank You For Looking, Voting And Posting

Thanks for your post www_watch.

I realise it's always a question of compromise because it seems that all reps have flaws of some degree or another but, for newbies like me and many others, it's important to seek the advice of trusted and knowledgeable members who know a great deal more than us on the subject - regardless of how much reading and research (countless hours on here and other forums) we all do independently.

In addition, for someone like me, who has now ditched the prospect of aquiring the Daytona(s) I've always wanted due to the advice I've read and been given, the subject of this topic is invaluable and I'll buy my first and subsequent reps from the Top Ten knowing of all the possible flaws (most of which can be easily remedied by a local watchsmith) that it may have because knowledgeable members have discussed it here - if they didn't let me know what the possible flaws were, I wouldn't know which rep to choose and what to ask any watchmaker to amend.

I'm still researching and I'm still enjoying the experience because of the members here - and I know that with the new models and generations that are regularly becoming available, this subject is one that can be reviewed on a regular and / or ongoing basis so that everyone (newbies and otherwise) can make a balanced judgement about their first / next rep.

Thanks Again For The Advice - Much Appreciated

Any chance of sharing your opinions by posting why you think your choice is the 'Best' 'Perfect' Rep Available Today please

Thank You

Original topic now standing at well over 3400+ views - and still counting...

...and over 115+ posts - and still counting...

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17016

Sorry Pugwash.

The list was standing at eight definites and I looked at all the posts in this topic and checked as many reviews as I could find for each and every rep that was mentioned (it took ages) to get the remaining two to make it a Top Ten and not just a Top Eight.

Rolexman's excellent Breitling Bentley GT review -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=9152

...and you said your new one was pretty damn close - that's why I looked at all topics and posts and then included it my friend - coz I know you know your stuff and if you (and quite a few others) say its perfect (or pretty damn close) then it should perhaps make the Top Ten - possibly at number ten but I think it may be best to let members decide the order of the list in the poll.

I also checked reviews, topic and posts here and at RC for the Flieger and customers who have recently taken delivery of the latest models certainly seem share your sentiments.

Maybe the only way we will find out is by watching the poll over the next few weeks or so.

Thanks Friend

Top ten results and poll -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17501

@nelly, found rolexman's excellent review of the Bentley GT -

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=9152

You're right it seems to deserve its place in Today's Top Ten.

@fxrandy, there's been a lot of comment on this forum and others about flybacks and display backs - the majority of opinions seem to say that the movements just aren't replicated accurately enough and it's a major 'tell'.

@Hyster - Couldn't agree with you more.