jj69

The clasp on my (Ultimate high beat) Concord C1 no longer stays closed. It won't hold any longer and just pops open on the wrist if you brush up against it. I'm told this was a common problem on the C1? Has anyone found a solution? Also, is the clasp on one version of the C1 rep better than others? Perhaps the clasp that comes from the low beat factory doesn't have this problem? If I have to buy a replacement, I may as well get the best version. Does anyone know?

I just turned mine into an Old Navi with a gen dial and custom datewheel. FYI, my local watch guy told me the dial had to be shaved a bit to fit the case.

My A21J Sinn had the same problem, but it was very bad. The seconds hand often appeared to stop for 5 seconds or so, then catch up. What The Zigmeister says makes perfect sense. I did send mine back to the dealer for service and he "serviced" it - whatever that means. It came back much better, but still some of the jumpiness. He probably did exactly what The Zigmeister recommends (i.e. lubing the tension spring). My advice is to go for the 2824 and avoid the problem.

I just got a similar Graham myself. Mine is the standard V2 Diver (no PVD). The lever is a bit sharp scrapes my arm, but I'm getting used to it. My trigger is a bit loose too. Is there a tutorial somewhere for this washer mod??? My bezel is also a bit loose. I read somewhere that it can be removed and tightened. Anyone know exactly how???

FYI mine finally arrived today! I guess they just had more demand than inventory. Decent catalog for the money.

Thank you too for the info and the revealing pics. I don't know why Andrew insists that it's not PVD coated. Perahps the coating is some other material? The Hont bezel fits flawlessly. Get it. It's so cheap it's a no brainer, and it's better than the V1 anyway. In fact, get two of them just in case you need it later. Do not even THINK about the titanium bezel. It's horrible. First off, it looks nothing like any gen bezel. Even more importantly, it's untreated titanium, which means it scratches VERY easily. You can mark it up with tissue paper. Trust me, it's garbage.

This exact same thing happened to me several months back. You will NOT get a replacement bezel from the V1 factory. I begged every dealer. The V1 factory does not sell parts to anyone for any reason. No exceptions. Two good options: (1) The bezel is not PVD coated (according to Andrew anyway). I would try polishing it out and see what happens. (2) If you can't polish the bezel you have, I would contact Hont. He has what is IMO an even better SS bezel with knurled sides. The color is lighter than the V1 bezel, and IMO closer to the gen in appearance. I've held three different gen Ice Bangs with tungsten bezels in my own hands, and IMO the V1 bezel is too dark. Hont's bezel is slightly lighter in color than the gen, but IMO much closer than the V1. Hont's bezel is also very cheap. Frankly, you can't go wrong with it.

Glad I stumbled across this thread. I'm still waiting for mine too. I ordered way back on 3/9, and I've contacted their customer service department FOUR times now. I keep getting the same BS stock response that "we are having issues with our tracking system, but it has been shipped." Yeah, right. I know when I'm being jerked around. It's glad to see at least SOMEONE actually got this book. Anyone else get theirs in the mail yet???

They Chinese could rep this 1:1 for $199, if only they saw a market for it.

The main reason is the position of the date window. The larger 7750 base movement allows them to move the date window closer to the outside of the bezel. The gen King uses the same 7750 base movement. There are reps available with a smaller Swiss movement, but the date window is closer to the center of the dial, which makes the rep look totally wrong. As long as you get the King with the high beat 7750 that runs at 28,800 you will be fine. It's a very reliable movement, and I wouldn't even consider buying a King with any other movement.

Good point! Do they even make a high end rep Oysterquartz? I would love a SS 17000 DateJust!

I ordered one and I listed it in the sale forum the day it arrived. It's okay, but it just felt too "cheap" to me to even bother with. The crown guards are plastic and it has a mineral crystal. I didn't even bother sizing it.

Actually, the P6320 IS the one I was referring to. Started out at $450, but now you can get it for $275. By far the best quartz rep available. The WatchEden version of the P6320 is also a great rep for $150. Very similar, but with a cheapo ISA movement.

I have three of the quartz HBBs. I'm surprised the seconds hand bothers you. Normally quartz movements drive me nuts, but the seconds hand on the HBBs is so small that it's far less noticeable. I know some dealers CLAIM the crystal is sapphire, but I'm not sure if I believe it. It is very thick, which gives it a very solid feel. The quartz HBBs are also great as parts donors if you have issues with your 7750 rep. The strap/deployant, bezel and rubber pads are all direct swaps (as long as you stick with the Tuiga factory versions).

You mean the Porsche? I have the quartz Flat Six with the red dial. I also have the automatic version of the Flat Six with the light grey dial (another superb rep). I even got a gen SS bracelet for the auto, which fits perfectly! In fact, I even have a third quartz Flat Six that I forgot to mention. This one is only offered at WatchEden as far as I know. It is NOT the one that tries to mimic the auto version, but another rep of the quartz gen, but this one has a cheap ISA movement rather than the $75 ETA. The subdials are marked a bit differently, but otherwise it is very, very close to the $275 version. It is also available in some fantasy dial colors, including a very nice yellow. I beleive it's the only quartz Flat Six on the WatchEden site with a sapphire crytal. It's about $150.

There is some truth to this. We already see Hublot and other makers smartening up and moving away from ETA movements with standard subdial spacing to make it harder to rep them. However, the consumer who would even consider buying a rep, regardless of how good the rep is, is just not their target customer base. The real reason these makers are making their models harder to rep is not because they fear they're losing significant sales. I imagine the more likely reason is to prevent their customers from being defrauded by sellers trying to pass off reps as gens. As we've all seen, this is a common practice on eBay, and this is a much higher concern to the gen makers than than the odd lost sale to riff-raff rep collectors like us.

Freddy, I must respectfully disagree with you here. I think you're way off target on this. The demand for gen luxury watches will never go away. The manufacturers' target customer is not the WIS collectors, and it's not the middle class worker who is saving up for one "nice watch" that he's going to wear for the rest of his life. Sure, they have those customers, but their real target is the wealthy customer with more money than sense who simply wants an expensive luxury item to put on his wrist and show it off. Such customers desire luxury goods primarily (and in many cases only) because they are expensive. If they were priced lower (i.e. what they're really worth), they would have no interest in them whatsoever. The worst thing Rolex, or Hublot, or AP could do is lower their prices. Frankly, the cell phone is a bigger threat to the luxury watch market than the rep industry. These days everyone has an atomic clock in their pocket, so fewer and fewer men are wearing watches at all. It was hard enough to convince people they should buy a $5,000 item that was functional and useful, so imagine how hard it must be now to convince people to buy a $5,000 item that serves almost no practical purpose. It's a good thing there are so many affluent customers out there seeking luxury goods!

Great topic! I wish they made more high quality quartz reps of quartz GENS, but sadly, they are few and far between. The best one I am aware of is the Swiss quartz version of the Porsche Design Flat Six with the same-as-gen ETA split-seconds movement. It is probably the closest to 1:1 rep I have ever seen. It's indistinguishable from the gen. The rep was initially released at $450 and no one bought it. They now sell for under $275, and it's easily the best quartz rep out there. I generally avoid quartz versions of gen's that are automatic because I just don't see the point. Most of them are poor quality versions that do not have a sapphire crystal, which really rubs me the wrong way. Personally I can't see paying more than $40 or so for ANY watch unless it has a sapphire crystal. Nevertheless, I have to say that some of the quartz Big Bangs are really amazing quality watches for the price. The best of them are from the factory that uses the Tuiga caseback on all of their models. If you find the right dealer, they're usually in the $100 range. I cannot imagine a more "impressive" looking watch for so little money.

I asked myself the same question a few years back when I first discovered quality reps and I've only bought one "luxury" gen since then. Now, the only gens I would consider are those that cannot be repped to my satisfaction. To me, that means an El Primero, a Patek, and not much else. For the most part, I'd much rather have ten $300 reps than one $3,000 gen. One point I don't think anyone has raised regarding why one might still buy a gen is because certain gens hold their value, and often appreciate in value. Rolex is the best example. If you buy a popular model like a basic sub today, it will likely be worth 90% or more of what you paid for it 5 or 10 years from now. Between inflation and Rolex's regular price increases, you do not stand to lose much money if you have to sell the watch, as long as you don't destroy it. In other words, some gens are a pretty good long term investment.

Yikes! I have NEVER seen anything like that, and if you hadn't posted a pic, I probably wouldn't believe you. I have several HBB reps and I've never seen any wear lines on the strap from the deployant. Maybe you guys wear it tighter than I do? If you have no luck with Euro, dealers like Tony at asian7750, Mary at WatchInternational and Hont are the best at sourcing HBB parts.

anics: Most all of our dealers carry the V2s, and many have the V3s. Look at their sites for photos. Both V2 and V3 come only with the low beat 7750. The V2s are very common and popular. The V3s are fairly new. Most of the V3s come with the beautiful new SS/ceramic braclets. When examining the color of any reflective metal, the lighting plays a major factor. That may be why you found certain parts of the gen Ice Bang darker than the rep. I'm not saying you're wrong - only that no one else has noticed/mentioned it before. As for inconsistencies, they are very common in most gens. Even gen makers outsource parts production for dials, hands, findings, clasps, crystals, straps, clasps, bezels, etc. When rep collectors get all up in arms about tiny details like the color of subdial hand posts and caseback engraving, I always chuckle to myself because I know it's just a matter of time until there's a lengthy thread by someone who spotted a gen with different attributes.

I almost forgot. You missed the #1 tell on this (and every other) HBB rep: The datewheel font. These high beat V1's have a font that is much too thin. The gen HBBs use a unique font that is exclusive to Hublot. The font matches the font used on teh dial for the small numbers in the subdials. Also, for the two-digit dates, the second digit is slightly larger than the first, in order to fill the trapezoidal shaped date window. If you're looking to spot a rep HBB, always look at the date wheel font. The V2 and V3 reps use nicer bolder fonts, but they're still not the same as the gen. The sunken datewheel is not really a tell, as all HBBs have sunken datewheels to some extent. The earliest HBBs that used an almost completely stock 7750 had the date even more sunken than the current models (although admittedly not as much as the rep).

Great post, but you have your terminology confused. The Ice Bang has never worn a titanium bezel. The original Ice Bang had a bezel made of tantalum (the one with polished sides). Tantalum is a metal with unique reflective properties and is therefore very difficult to replicate with another metal. The newer Ice Bang has a tungsten steel bezel (the one with knurled sides) which is supposedly coated with a clear coating of PVD. To confuse matters further, Hublot has apparently been shipping some brand new Ice Bangs with the tantalum bezel again. The V1 full ceramic rep (the one you own) has a steel bezel that is coated with colored PVD to approximate the color of the genuine tungsten bezel. I am curious about your findings that the color is a 99% match. I have seen two gens in person and I found the color of the gen bezel much lighter than the dark grey bezel that comes with the V1 rep. What kind of lighting conditions did you view the gen in? Were you in a Tourneau store flooded with fluorescent light?

I was just reading on a gen forum that for 2010 they have changed the name of the Avenger Skyland to just plain "Avenger." Apparently, there are some minor changes. People are focusing on the stencil numbers. They were white on the Skyland dial and they're supposedly brushed steel on the 2010 version. Most prefer the white Skyland numbers. The models shown in my links above appear to be pre-2010 Skyland models (not sure if the 2010's are even out yet). It's possible the change to white tubes is something they've been in the process of transitioning to for the 2010 model. Hence the Skyland versions we are seeing that already have them. Or, it's possible that this is just a normal variation in the gens. I've seen rep collectors go way too far in picking apart minute details of watches only to find they are normal, but significant, variations that appear in the gens as well. Certain IWC and Hublot models are good examples. We have to keep in mind that gens, just like reps, are not really produced by one "factory." They are assembled from parts outsourced to various factories that specialize in component parts like hands, dials, crystals, clasps, findings, or whatever. If the contract with Factory A expires and Factory B can provide the same quality parts at a lower price, so be it. IMO that's where a lot of these minor variations begin.

Here are a few more: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=4777619&rid=0 http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=4629746&rid=0 http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=4598868&rid=0 Very nice macro shots here: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=4619348&rid=0