scoobs1971

Funny, I found this site a few days ago via TZ and at the same time several people here are posting the same link The breakdown of the 2892 and 6497 can also be found at this site. http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/2892A2/2892A2.html http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/6497/6947.html

Sometimes I hate myself in striving for the perfect rep, while I know it will never be 100% exact.

But I know and that keeps bugging me..... I'm getting way too anal for reps these days .

Nice work! Great strap on the PAM177 indeed. What is it?

I've had several gens in my hand and the color seems to differ every time. I think the black color of the gen dial is much influenced by the blueish AR. It changes under different light and different angles from dark black to greyish black. The gen dial also has a somewhat textured surface. The hour markers and fonts are supposed to be clear white. On your pics unfortunately the fonts of 'IWC Schaffhausen' and the subdial fonts are too greyish and should be as clear white as the hour markers. But so far I haven't seen a rep dial correct in this way (even not V1). Too bad the 3, 6 and 9 markers are still a tad too thick. But The Zigmeister can do a great job by replacing them with lume (see Chiefs pics)

Absolutely stunning, congrats!

Lately I've been holding several PAM88 gens in my hand and the date magnification was way bigger than on my DSN 88 (DW almost similar to a Lello DW). But then again I'm very anal....

My belief is that the magnification will be less, because the DW is sitting lower and further away from the cyclops than in the gen.

Hmmm, I can imagine this ain't gonna be cheap and you will still end up with the sunken DW and a too small magnification.

Have fun guys! It's always a pleasure to be with Taka

On the rep A7750 the GMT module is placed on top of the calender module. Consequently the dial is sitting higher and further away from the DW, giving the look of a sunken DW. So adding a rep GMT module on a Swiss7750 won't change anything.

, but at least we agree on all points.

First of all congrats on your purchase! Trust me when I say this is not going to be your only PAM... I assume that PT = Angus and not PT from the UK. I have Angus's Ultimate 111E w/o superlume, but with fixed cannon pinion and AR. 1. Cannon pinion: this is the pin that holds the hour and minute hands. It is fixed if the pin is on the same level as the minute hand. If not, you will see a small hole in the minute hand tube. 2. Lume: don't expect too much from it. If you are lucky it will be an improvement over standard rep lume, but by far not comparable to the relume that someone like The Zigmeister delivers. You will notice if it's 100% SL when you walk from outside in the sun into the shadow and the lume starts glowing like hell and stays that way for a while. Typical rep lume doesn't charge that fast and won't last for a minute or 2. 3. AR: genuine single AR is not as impressive as double. Double AR makes you forget that there's a glass in your watch. Rep AR in most cases ain't nothing but a film with a blue or purple teint which won't take away any glare from the glass. Sometimes the hue is way too much and an easy giveaway from a distance. You may wanna redo the AR with people like Chief. 4. Strap: The size of a Panerai strap without buckle is 24mm on the watchhead end and 22 mm at the buckle end. Some strapmakers deliver 24/24 straps with a sewned in buckle. Bob has very affordable entry level straps, but the quality is average. I can recommend The Watch Boys, Toscana Straps and Mikah from my own experience. They are around $100,-, but really worth the money. A lot of gen PAM owners use these straps too including the sewned in buckle.

Great review, thnx!

That looks sweet . Can't seem to get acces to Watchmark's site. Could you please PM me the details?

Thnx for the great review! I'm wondering if the black version also have been repped. For the money it's an awesome dresswatch. The gen Senator 60s chrono is on my dream wishlist

Thnx! Yesterday I had the opportunity to have a gen 088k in my hands again. The silver subdial isn't recessed anymore and also lost the small circular patterns. I guess Panerai changed this over time. I also noticed the complete lack of a blueish AR-hue - thought it actually has AR. This makes the rep with the strong blue AR look a bit silly. The biggest flaw however, was the magnification of the date. The magnification on the gen looks almost double the size of the DSN rep. I don't know about the Cartel cyclops. So in the end to me there's no 'ultimate' to both Cartel and DSN PAM088 rep, just another average PAM rep.....

I fully agree All are very nice and classy dress watches, but I would stay away from the Lange. The first thing a watch lover would ask for is seeing the back of the Lange....

Guess I'm one of the lucky guys, but still it's sad that this issue hasn't been solved for others

The dial printing on Josh's pics looks definitely better than on mine. Maybe there were inconsistencies in the batch or different batches and I got a bad one.... But still the color of Josh's dial looks too deep black and the subdial to greyish.

Looks very, very nice! Already looking forward seeing the same result on my PAM088

Since this is my favourite topic since months... Left = 'Ultimate Cartel', Right = DSN 1. As you can see the black of the DSN dial is a bit lighter, less glossy and has a bit of a greenish hue (the very reason why the blueish hue of the DSN AR is empasized too much) , but the color of the DSN dial looks more like the I-series gen I had in my hand. 2. The subdial of the ultimate Cartel is slightly more grey than the silver DSN subdial. Both are not recessed (optical illusion by the small circular patterns). 3. The arabic numbers 1 - 24 on the DSN dial are a bit thinner. To me the numbers on the ultimate Cartel dial look more like the gen, but 'Panerai automatic' and 'Luminor GMT' are too bold - especially the 'A's in 'Panerai'. Ironically this was better on the old Cartel dial, which also had a recessed subdial (see pics of the installed old Cartel dial hereunder). All in all the DSN dial looks more accurate. DSN Ultimate Cartel Installed hands are DSN on an old Cartel dial, the others are 'Ultimate Cartel' The DSN hands have the same thickness, but the lume part on the hour hand seems too long. The Cartel hour hand is slightly thicker than the minute hand, but the lume part on the hour hand is shorter than on the DSN and the hour hand is also slighly shorter than DSN's. I left out the GMT hands - they are similar. So both are not perfect, but I would choose the new Cartel hands. Lello DW vs. Asian DW The Lello font is much thicker and brighter. Lello DW vs DSN DW Not that much difference. Lello is slightly brighter, but has more grain. DSN PAM088 with old Cartel dial (note the difference in L SWISS MADE L vs 12) and DSN hands. So far my 'perfect' PAM: DSN case, movement, hands. Old Cartel dial. Future mods: - make the lever pin flat (it's too round now) - brush the CG lever - change DSN hands for 'ultimate' Cartel hands - The Zigmeisterlume and full service of movement Also see http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=88010&hl= I'm not sure if I'm going to remove the blue 'AR' and put the DSN dial back or that I keep the old Cartel dial as installed now. As I understand Chief doesn't do AR on sapphire with a cyclops and I'm not sure what the effect is of removing the current 'AR'.

So that's for both automatics and handwinds - being the only difference that the automatics are polished (w/brushed lever) and the handwinds brushed?

DSN indeed has a different CG with a bit curved surface instead of the flat Cartel CG. Having seen the gen in the flesh this looks accurate to me. Also the CG screws have a different size and position on the case. Without drilling new holes the DSN CG won't fit on a Cartel case. The DSN lever pin is rounded, so need to be made flat. The DSN lever is polished and should be brushed. I have a Lello DW, but the difference with the DSN DW is minor, so I haven't changed it. But the font on the gen still looks more bold. My DSN caseback has G0087/2000, OP6554, BB 1124890 Is that correct? The Cartel dial is more silver than greyish. The DSN subdial is silver, but with a yellowish teint. Both are a bit recessed and have little circels in the subdial (not showing in the pic, though). Which is more correct? The black of the DSN dial is lighter black with a greyish/blueish hue. I found that the dial emphasizes the blue hue of the DSN AR too much. So in reality the blacker Cartel dial makes the AR look more subtle. However, the J-series gen I had in my hand seemed to have the lighter black color. Could it be that Panerai has changed the color a bit over the years? My (old) Cartel dial has L SWISS MADE L with the 12 on top of it.

This will get you started: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=76333&hl= Be prepaired for mad addiction