stang

Are there any "brand-name" watchmakers that use the asian clone movements? I'm under the impression that replica manufacturers are the only ones to use the asian copies of the 7750 and other Swiss movements. I agree that higher quality Asian movements would be a viable option for manufacturers using Swiss movements, although, as you said, consumers are programmed to believe that Swiss movements are the pinnacle of horological achievement. The "Swiss Made" label does carry a ton of clout with consumers. Not that this is undeserved ... the Swiss have always strived to produce the finest watches and movements available. Their reputation is definitely well deserved. It just sucks that it's becoming more expensive to get a very high quality movement in a replica, whether it's Swiss, Asian or other.

After reading the replies and checking the latest prices on Josh's site, it appears that the price for a Swiss 7750 has risen about $200 in the last 6-8 months. A chronomat Evo used to be about $800 and they're about $1000 now. Apparently this trend will continue if I'm interpreting your comments correctly (or has the increase already been accounted for w/ weak USD and ETA's exporting restrictions?). I agree that the best solution would be Asian movements w/ similar QC to the Swiss counterparts but I don't think this will happen. For example, why improve quality when your competitor's product has increased in price dramatically ... this just makes your existing product more appealing based on the price differential. Cheaper ETAs would be an incentive to improve quality (more competition), not pricier ones. Overall, these changes seem to be making things worse for the replica market. Too bad, I liked the trend which seemed to exist a year ago when there were more and more Swiss powered watches becoming available. One thing I never understood was how the Asian replica market managed to obtain ETA movements in the first place. I thought ETA corporation and a number of Swiss regulations (or business practices) prevented sales of Swiss movements to non-swiss companies. At the very least I thought you had to be a well-established and reputable manufacturer of your own brand to obtain ETA or other Swiss movements. I didn't think someone from China could call up ETA and order 100 or so Valjoux 7750s and get them. Apparently, almost anyone could buy ETA movements if they wanted. Surprising. Sorry for beating a dead horse. I didn't know the horse was dead or that anyone had ridden the horse. Regards all, Jeff

I read on Timezone or somewhere else that ETA (supplier of 80% of the movements and ebauches' (sp?) from Switzerland) is planning to cease production and supply of its movements by 2010. Apparently, they wanted to stop supply earlier but some watch governing board forbade them from doing so prior to 2010. This, supposedly, will give other companies time to develop and "tool-up" for production of new movements to replace this void. Even sourcing of the hairsprings for the balances has become a major issue. Like the ETA movements, there is a monopoly on hairspring supply, with basically only one company (nivaflex?) producing them. Rolex now makes their own hairsprings but they are the exception. Since there have been more and more reps containing ETA or other Swiss (Lemania) movements recently (a very good trend in my opinion), I wonder how this transition will affect the replica market in the next few years. I'm guessing that availability will decrease with a cuncurrent increase in price for ETA based reps. Not good. Also, while the influx of new movements will probably create a greater diversity in the genuine sector, this will probably make it more difficult to have desired replicas made. Consider how many watches there are based on the 7750 platform. Currently, all a rep maker has to do is source an ETA or Asia 7750 and there are dozens of possible watches to clone using this engine. Now consider a chrono market with dozens of different movements. Different subdial layouts, different features, displays, etc. It will be almost impossible to buy one movement and have it used for many different watches. What watches will a rep maker choose to copy? How accurate will they be able to make the watches? How much will the price for a particular rep increase considering the larger investment and risk associated with specific needs for each watch? What movements will the Asian's choose to copy? I would like to hear peoples thoughts on this issue. I don't see this as being good for the replica market but maybe I'm missing something. Regards, Jeff

Ironmarshall, RE: the UN Marine Chrono from Perfect-Clones I'm assuming you're joking. The UN Marine Chrono would be my (realistic) rep dream watch, but the version from Perfect-Clones is a joke. It uses the 21J Asia auto with a faux chrono! :yucky: I'm not a stickler for 100% accuracy but a "chrono" watch without a working chronograph is just too lame. Since the genuine uses the ETA 2894, this watch could very easily be repped to 98% accuracy (only inaccuracy would be a 30 min subdial rather than the Gen's 45 min counter) using the 2894 movement. I could/would easily live with this inaccuracy just to get that wonderful movement in the beautiful UN chrono case!! The Maxi Marine Diver would be a nice watch too, although I much prefer chronographs. I like the UN's w/ gold cases and blue rubber straps w/ gold bars. I can't imagine anyone buying that cheesy UN Chronograph w/ the fake chrono (heck, they didn't even copy the subdial numbers properly! Soooo cheesy) Regards, Jeff

I know I'm in the minority here but I kind of like the new Silberstein watch (saw it on Andrew's site). Even though I prefer the beauty of Ulysse Nardin watches, I have to admit that I can appreciate the "fringe-of-sanity" watches made by Silberstein. For example, it's certianly a watch that will get noticed! Second, it's fairly unique in it's design ... I don't see many (read *any*) watches that look like it at work, at dinner, at parties, etc. You can pay 30 grand for a Patek and most people won't even notice it let alone have any idea how much you paid. At least with the Silberstein you can say "I paid $XXXX" for it when someone invariably asks you about it. I realize I'm being fairly shallow, but If I paid $10,000 for a watch I would want EVERYONE to notice it, not just the few WIS's there are out there. Plus, you don't have to worry much about someone showing up at the party wearing something that looks the same. I doubt I would pay the $$$$ for a real Silberstein, but I would certianly wear it all the time if I got it as a gift. However, I'm still waiting for a really good Ulysse Nardin rep. Marine Chronograph, Chrono Annual Calender, Sonata, Freak or Perpetual calender. Regards all, Jeff

By-Tor, I like the Zenith rainbow also. I think it's a pretty cool looking watch. Seems like an ETA 7753 (tricompax) would work perfectly. The extra cost of the Swiss movements is less important to me now. The Asia 7750 is much cheaper ... but not that much after having a $200 servicing. I'd rather pay more for a better movement up-front. Then again, I don't buy a lot of reps (just the SMP chrono so far, which I love BTW). Pugwash, I'll take your word for it that the 2894 is difficult to work on. This is why I would be happy if they just put it in a Ulysse Nardin Marine Chronograph "as-is". I could easily live with a minute counter calibrated in 30 min scale. The 45 min scale is far less important to me than having an excellent movement in a beautiful case. Since I don't try to pass off my rep as a gen, the 30-min subdial inaccuracy is of little consequence to me. Getting an ETA 2894 for around $1000 is far more important. (the cheapest watch I can find w/ the ETA 2894 is a new Invicta model which I don't like the looks of. Plus the cost is over $2000, maybe close to $3000 ... not sure off the top of my head). Thus, I wish they would just build the case and put in the 2894 as-is, no mods. I would happily pay $1000 to $1200 for this rep. Regards gentlemen! Be well, Jeff

After reading more, I agree with Andyking's earlier posts. I adore Ulysse Nardin watches too. Overall, I think UN makes the most unique and beautiful watches of any manufacturer. Sporty yet classic, masculine but not monsterous, contemporary and traditional at the same time! I love their use of colors, metals and design. The Royal Blue Tourby and the Sonata are unbelieveably beautiful watches IMO. I've decided on my dream rep... The Marine Chronograph using the ETA 2894 movement (same base mvt as the gen). I'd prefer it in gold (plating), w/ the blue dial, blue rubber strap and gold "bars" on the strap. This watch could easily be 99% accurate in appearance and function. The min counter on the gen is calibrated for 45 min while the base 2894 is 30 minl. This may be an easy fix mechanically (?) or just have the dial correct and the user would have to mentally calculate the correct # of minutes passed. Exampl:. dial reads 20 min so 20/1.5 = 13.3 min actually elapsed. Price should be around $1K, which I would pay w/o hesitation if executed (repped) properly. I am praying and praying and praying....

Hmmm, strange results. First I ran the chrono for 15 hours (stopped at the 3 mark) and reset it. The pointer moved, but in the wrong direction! It was then -0.75 hours rather than -0.5 hours and looked even worse since the pointer was between hash marks now. I then ran it for 21 hours (stopped at the 9 mark) and reset it. This returned it to -0.5 hours. I'll now try stopping it at 19 hours (7 mark) to hopefully have enough inertia to move it further clockwise towards the 12 mark. Anyhoo, this technique generally seems to be working ... just takes a long time to adjust it properly. THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the advice Tourby & Scoobs. Regards, Jeff

I would love to see a rep using the ETA 2894 movement. There are now many rep watches with ETA 7750 movements, I would like to have one with the 2894 movement (it's smaller & lighter than the 7750 and has 37 jewels). The price of the movement from Ofrei is approx $430 while the 7750 goes for approx $390. Here is the link if anyone is interested: http://www.ofrei.com/page240.html Valjoux 7750 http://www.ofrei.com/page_183.html ETA 2894 Therefore, the price of a rep using this movement shouldn't be more than the $750-800 being charged for the ETA 7750 models. I can't think of any watches that use this movement off the top of my head (except the TAG monaco which I don't like). I think it would make a great Omega Planet Ocean Chrono rep ... even if the subdial arrangement and pusher-2-crown level isn't correct. (the 2894 has small seconds at 3-o-clock & the pushers are lower than the crown). But ... you would have one of the best looking watch designs with one of the best (reasonably priced) movements available. The subdials on the 2894 are closer together so this would reflect the genuine's spacing better. A Pam submersible rep would also be really cool. I would pay 1K for either of these reps. On a tangent, I would also love to see a Hublot Bigger Bang if that could be repped for a reasonable price (probably not).

Steppen, I believe the 7753 *is* a modified 7750 ... the only difference between the two versions being the placement of the minute subdial (12-o-clock for the 7750, 3-o-clock for the 7753). Other than that, everything is the same. There is also a 7751 (chronograph) version which has moonphase display and something else (I forget what, a GMT, month display, ??). This model is sig different than the 7750/7753 (more complex & expensive). Jeff

Tourby, OK, thanks for clarifying that for me. I will try running it for 13(+) hours then resetting it to see if it corrects the alignment problem. LOL ... but seriously, I love using the chrono. I'm a scientist so I actually have use for the chrono in the lab to time rxns, instrument troubleshooting, etc. I also like to keep the chrono running much of the time because that is the only way I can get "center seconds" operation. I loathe small seconds displays but chronos always use the center hand for the chrono. According to the master (The Zigmeister) it is perfectly fine to have the chrono running constantly. Since it's an automatic, I don't have to worry about burning up the battery quicker by keeping it on constantly, as in a quartz. I recently had the movement serviced by The Zigmeister so I'm confident that it will run reliably so long as I don't do anything stupid to it. I recall The Zigmeister saying that a properly serviced Asia 7750 (the new models) will be almost as reliable as the Swiss counterpart. I've worn it almost every day for 8 months (much chrono operation to boot) and haven't had any serious problems with it yet. I dropped it and the min hand came loose and now this reset issue. However, the first problem was my fault, not the watch's. Thanks for the feedback and advice Tourby & Scoobs. Have a great night! With regards, Jeff C.

Tourby, I'm having the same problem w/ my A7750. Several weeks after having it serviced, the hour totalizer (subdial) started resetting to the 11.5 hour position. Although it's only 30 min off the "12-o-clock" position, it's annoying me. The chrono runs fine and the min subdial resets to the "12-o-clock" position like it should. I had trouble understanding the advice you gave to Scoobs. Do I run the chrono until it reaches the 1 hour (or 8 hour, 9 hour, etc) position, then stop the chrono and reset it? I've already tried resetting the chrono from a few different "hour" totalizer positions (and it always resets to one index left of the top (0/12 hour) position. Did I interperate your instructions properly? Do I hit the reset button while the chrono is running? Do I have to run the chrono for over 12 hours so that it completes one full turn before resetting? I don't have the skills to open this thing up and I don't want to ship it out again. Thanks, in advance, for your help. Sincerely, Jeff

I'm not sure what forum The Zigmeister peruses but I figure this one is a good bet. I wanted to extend my sincere gratitude to The Zigmeister for servicing my watch and reluming the face/hands. The Zigmeister fixed the dislocated minute hand and did his thorough servicing work with a very quick turn-around time. (once my appointment date had arrived) The Superluminova application looks and works excellent, much better than the original lume. There are a few scratches on the minute hand which are noticeable upon close inspection, but I was warned that this is a distinct possibility when relume work is done. The quality of the relume work more than compensates for the appearance of the scratches ... I would definitely do it again. The $200 fee for service of the A7750 (complete disassembly, cleaning, oiling, reassembly, etc) is very fair in my opinion, especially considering the fees others charge and the questionably thorough job they do (swish & dip???). I trust The Zigmeister's skill and ethics. Similarly, his relume work ($100) is very reasonable and beautifully done. The skeleton hands on the Seamaster are very difficult to work on, but he did a great job. KUDOS The Zigmeister!! (I wanted to acknowledge you publicly rather than via PM). FYI to members, the waiting list is very long but worth the wait IMO. Cheers Rob! Sincerely, Jeff (Mustang)

ironmarshal, I, too, am a huge fan of Ulysse Nardin watches. Overall, I think they are the most beautiful watches I've ever seen. They seem to have a very rare and enigmatic blend of styling features which makes them both very unique and stunningly beautiful. They have masculine, modern and classical features all blended wonderfully into a magnificent overall effect. I love the skeleton hands, blue, gold & rose color combos, mix of materials (rubber & metal ... like Hublot), classic dials/indexes/bezels, etc. A few of my favorites are the GMT/perpetual limited 42mm(gold/leather), sonata cathedral, and Maxi-marine chronograph. The marine series is truly beautiful and the special editions are stunning (eg the Freak). BTW ... I was BLOWN AWAY when I saw UN's "Trilogy of Time" collection. These are the most unique and creative watches I've ever seen. They make "grand complications" seem mundane by comparison. Unreal. I wish I could afford a Marine Chronograph, I love that watch. Maybe someday a replica will be available for us financially-challenged watch lovers! : )

If I remember The Zigmeister's review of the new A7750 @ 28,800, he said it is remarkably better than the older versions. Once it's cleaned and oiled properly (~$200) it should be as reliable and accurate as the Swiss model. Even w/o the service it seems to be quite sturdy. My SMP chrono w/ the A7750 is running fine after 8 months. I dropped it and the min hand came loose but the movement is still running fine (as judged by the chrono operation and sec/hour hand keeping proper time). Hopefully, The Zigmeister can get to it soon. Good luck and have fun! Jeff

tedbears, With regard to your question below, I found the following site during my search in The Zigmeister's absence. This is the link to the other repair site. http://www.tmpco.com/ratetxt.html However ... Please read the quote from The Zigmeister I posted before attempting service from another source!! I don't know if this is the person to whom The Zigmeister is refering to in his post but caveat emptor (sp?) or buyer beware. Since The Zigmeister is back I would wait until he can service your watch. I'm scheduled for early November so perhaps you can get mid November timeframe if you PM him now.

Great to have you back The Zigmeister!!!! For Real For Real. I posted a topic & reply in the "Watch Repair & Upgrade" sub-forum, including an excerpted quote from you which I found following a Google search. It concerns problems you had w/ another "repairman" and his customers and the subsequent changes it forced you to make. Very sorry to hear about all this BS you had to endure. You, of all people, shouldn't have to tolerate this nonsense. I'm glad you had a great vacation (you deserve it) but I'm much happier to have you back here, cuz we need you. (Reminds me of the theme from "Welcome Back Kotter")... Welcome back, Your dreams were your ticket out. Welcome back, To that same old place that you laughed about. Well the names have all changed since you hung around, But those dreams have remained and they're turned around. Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya) Here where we need ya (Here where we need ya) Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've got him on the spot, welcome back, Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back. Best wishes, Jeff

I found this post from the master from another site after a Google search I've said it before and I'll say it again... 1) The Zigmeister is AWESOME!! His advice, instruction, knowledge, direction, insight, etc., etc. are invaluable resources for all us members. Ditto for the repair and maintenance services he provides. To this I'll add... 2) Anyone who claims The Zigmeister is unscrupulous, misleading, overpriced, unethical, unknowledgeable, arrogant or over-rated is ignorant to the point of "Guiness Book of World Record" proportions. At the very least, they have some un-even number of chromosomes in their body. 3) The Zigmeister is probably the single greatest thing to happen to RWG. Losing him and his services would be a tradegy. As for my dilemma, upon further inspection, it seems that I dislodged/loosened the minute hand from the post. This seems to be why I have trouble setting the time or getting it to work properly. I'm unable to find detailed instructions (with pictures) on how to access the face & hands on a SMP 300M chrono replica. I would consider trying to re-fix the hands to the post if I knew how to access the face properly. However, things like removing the crown, pushers, movement and other nuances of disassembly (& subsequest re-assembly) are too scary to consider w/o proper instructions specific to this model. If anyone knows where I could find this type of guide please let me know since I don't know if/when The Zigmeister will be back and when he would be able to look at my watch. It's driving me crazy not being able to wear my watch. Thanks for the replies b16a2 and L-dizzle. Regards, Jeff

To All, I accidentally dropped my SMP 300M chrono today (~3 feet onto hardwood floor) and somehow bent the minute hand or something. Now, the crown can't move the minute hand past the 11 position. The face/hands don't look messed up w/o very close inspection, but the watch won't work properly because the min hand can't move past the 11 position. I love this watch (I've been wearing it every day since I bought it in March), so I'm really bummed out about this. I need to get the watch repaired so, of course, my first thought was to contact The ZigmeisterZumba for work. Unfortunately, I can't locate his web site anymore and I can't send him a message either. Does anyone know how The Zigmeister can be contacted? If for some reason The Zigmeister has decided to stop providing watch repair service (a tragedy of epic proportions), where else can I get repair service on my SMP 300M chrono replica? This watch has the Asia 7750 movement. Who else offers replica repair services? (I live in New Jersey, U.S.A. if that makes a difference) My sincerest thanks go out to anyone who can help me obtain service for my baby. I am bummed out beyond words right now. Thanks, in advance, for any help you can provide. Sincerest Regards, Jeff

Docblackrock, I had this problem at first when I wasn't winding it properly. This movt "rotor-winds" in the clockwise direction (face up I believe). I "swirl" my watch (to have inertia move the rotor) for approx 100 revolutions to build up a good charge. I also wear it all day long and don't have stoppies anymore. Even still, I don't think the reserve lasts for more than ~20 hours with a full charge. I try to avoid manual winding since I vaguely remember someone saying it wasn't a good way to wind this particular movt (wears out the clutch or something(??)). Try getting the rotor to make ~100 revolutiions (each direction to be sure) and see how long the power lasts. Good luck. Jeff

Wow, Unbelieveable thread. I hope, as someone said, that this pond is big enough for two fishes. The Zigmeister will always be the definitive expert on watch service around here and I doubt anyone would question his ability, dedication and old-world craftsmanship philosophy. I also believe there has been constant innovation in tools, materials and processes which can improve the time consuming task of watch repair. My take on "the technician's" suggestions was that he was describing a process that when utilized exactly as he has done (same equipment, same materials, same exact process) would yeild results close (94%(???)) to the optimum paradigm The Zigmeister employs. Perhaps the results would have been different if The Zigmeister had known/duplicated exactly what Amplitude had done. For example, I know drying via centrifugation yeilds different results that drying-in-place (centrifugation causes the dirty water to fling off the parts, while evaporation causes deposits to stay. Forced air may not be sufficient to clear all the tiny crevices). Likewise with the number and type of washes, oiling equipment, procedural nuance, etc. I don't know. Maybe Amplitude can/will show us the before & after results of using his processes, materials and equipment. I would be very interested in seeing before shots of a disassembled, dirty movement that is then re-assembled, cleaned per his methods, and disassembled again to show the results. A lot of work, I know ... but not much more than The Zigmeister does regularly (one extra disassembly). Regardless, I doubt anyone disagrees that The Zigmeister's method is the 100% best way to service a mechanical watch. Again, Kudos and Thanks for the incredible amount of information and service you've provided The Zigmeister!!!!

Holy Cannoli Batman ... it works! The hairdryer trick worked perfectly. I used the low setting and held the hairdryer approx 1 cm from the crystal, moving in slow circles around the bezel for five minutes. Then, I used my fingernail to press on the pearl's "ridge" and slide the insert over to the correct position. I couldn't believe how easy it was. Everyone ... don't even think about removing the bezel until you've tried this technique. Takes just a few min and is ridiculously easy. I should have done this weeks ago. (BTW, I have the SMP 300M chrono). Thanks all!

I've seen several people quote an entire post (pictures included) by using the QUOTE button at the bottom-right side of a post. This option copies everything, which makes load times longer and makes it difficult to determine what specific statements the author is attempting to address. Try this method instead... 1) use the POST REPLY button at the end of the thread (bottom of page). It's the one between FAST REPLY and NEW TOPIC. 2) Select (highlight) the content you're referencing and Copy & Paste it into the reply window. 3) Precede the text you're quoting with ["quote] and end the text with ["/quote]. Don't include the " ... I'm just using them for illustrative purposes to avoid invoking the feature. This will make: ["quote] How do I reference something another member wrote? [/"quote] appear like this ... I don't see much of this style of "quoting" so I'm assuming many people aren't aware of how to do it. Quoting the entire post, pictures included and sometimes more than once, is unnecessary and cumbersome. Try this method instead. Good luck! Sincerely, Jeff *edit* of course, now that I've submitted this topic I'm seeing lots of "selective" quoting (as above). Well, maybe one person will find it useful.

Logan, Interesting and helpful input. My SMP chrono has a He valve and I didn't realize it was a weak link in the water resistance of the watch. I read a review of the SMP 300M Chronograph Rep by Gioarmani. He had the watch tested by a dealer and it was supposedly good down to 300 feet (whether or not it was tested to 300M and/or if it passed I don't know). Similarly, he actually submerged the watch himself at 60 foot debth & it was OK ... so I'm assuming I can wear my SMP in the pool or shower (?). BTW, how bad it the He valve seal on your watch(s)? I would prefer a less permanent solution to sealing the He valve better ... perhaps by using some sort of clear silicone gasket material on the threads? Also, I'm still very curious about the need/utility/purpose/effectiveness of screw-down pushers on a chronograph. The pushers seem to be the "weak-link" in the case sealing on this type of watch since the crown & caseback typically seal very well (tightly). Do the pushers only protect against accidental bumps while submerged or do they also serve to press the internal gaskets tightly against the interior of the case? Just seems like a good idea on a WR chronograph so I'm wondering why a lot of "diver" chronos don't have them (?) .... Jeff

Kruzer00, Exactly, this is what I'm alluding to ... that greater water resistance is somewhat indicative of the build quality of a watch. I'd bet that 99.99 % of Steelfishes or Planet Oceans will never see water pressures greater than a dive to the bottom of a pool, yet their WR of 1000 or 600 meters respectively indicates a high level of build quality/precision/materials/etc. Furthermore, the WR rating is usually based on static, best-case conditions (slow pressure buildup & no movement). Conversely, a water/jetskiier who drags his watch through the ocean at 30 mph is probably exposing it to conditions requiring 300M of WR. I always look for WR ratings 3-4 times the debth I may experience to account for rigorous activity. On a side note, many good diver watches come w/ screw-down pushers to lock the gaskets tightly against the case. This seems like a good idea and makes logical sense to me. However, there are many 200-300 (or greater) WR watches which don't have screw-down pushers ... so I'm wondering how they manage to withstand the 300 (+) meter ratings they claim. Are there any diver members or watch experts who can explain the need/utility/requirements for screw-down pushers? Why do some watches have them and some don't and how much of a difference do they really make? Just curious. Thanks. Jeff