archibald

Hello, nothing new ? i m still looking for a Black HBB (ice bang, all black, black magic..), and now i'm totaly lost !

On the new real HBB the bezel is totaly different ? no ?

No, I think that one's brushed and others are not. I believe both types are repped--just make sure the rep has the same type as its corresponding gen.

I don't think a rep can ever come close to mimicking the actual guilloch

As long as you can remove the sapphire on the bezel to relume, I'm all over this--45mm, solid back, etc.

Glad you put the dial to good use!

If I had both those watches, that 112 would be up on the bay right quick. Lot's of 112 E's on people's wrists. Not verymany 1B's. Plus, W/ the high B serial # a lume dial is perfectly appropriate;the crown is probably more accurate than a recent gen crown for an early piece; and, as you can see from the side by side, The Zigmeister's new pin work on the Jimmy makes the CG (an hence the watch) dead on 1:1.

Hi All,

I am a first time PAM buyer - and I've been reading these forums extensively for the past two days. If anyone could help me out with some questions, or offer advice, it would be greatly appreciated!

1. I've gone through alot of Panerai forum topics and the dealer's area. Does anyone recommended a preferred rep dealer? I've read alot about Davidsenjpn (although there's not alot of recent posts), but not so much on other dealers.

2. I'm interested in the PAM 111 or PAM 276 - what is the difference in PAM series (I've seen alot of Hs, but also noticed a few Is, Js and Ks).

I work in QA, so quality is very important to me.

In terms of specs, not looking for much:

- sapphire crystal with AR coating

- movement can be either swiss or asian

- water resistant

Thanks!

My first advice would be to buy a 111, or better, the very similar 001, whiich are by far the more accurately repped of the 2 models you're looking at.

I recommend an 01 over a 111 is for 3 reasons:

--they have solid casebacks, which eliminates the problem of the rep movements which are instantly identifiable as fake;

--there is no need for AR (no AR is far preferable to bad rep AR which also instantly ID's your watch as rep except it does so on the wrist);

---and the value of genuine 01's is greater than 111's allowing you to spend some money on mods down the road without worring that you'll be spending too much money relative to just buying a gen.

A good 01 one rep with a couple of easy mods (relume and crown guard "flat pin mod") and a nice strap will look genuine to 99.99% of the people who see it, even those who have seen many panerais.

Some people swear by davidsen. Others have had repeated problems with him. He does sell a pretty good 01 Rep, however. The vbery best way to get a great piece, though, would be to regularly check the members' trade area. 01's and 111's are very popular reps and are up for sale almost constantly, and if you are not in a big hurry I bet you will find a piece that has already been moddedat a good price.

Counting on the water resistance of any rep is asking for big trouble, BTW.

i have a MBW with all parts you need to build the best AP Rep gen white dial, gen hands!!!, tag heuer movement with chrono module,... but i have to say...it is soooo hard to get the parts

this AP is one of a kind, because there are no parts in the whole world to buy

Hi Pam,

Please send me a PM if you ever decide to sell any of those parts. I have a friend who will pay top dollar in a second.

Nice photos.. Wear it well..

I am sending mine to The Zigmeister for service in March..George claims the movement is Swiss ETA...

The Zigmeister will determine if that statement is true..

I also thought the crown was a bit large but I can live with that ( if not eBay for a gen)

Bill

Nothing wrong w/ a movement designed for ladies watches (Ms. A has an ETA 2671 muller rep that has worked fine the very few few times she's worn it) as long as the extra long stem is no problem and/or the bigger men's watch hands won't drain the power reserve or something.

If those are froman italy based seller, I'd be VERY careful of the hands. I and at least from me recieved hands in those exact boxes that turned out to be luminova. But should be an instant tell when installed onto watches. Good luck!!

are you blind ??

see the numerals, they are totally different.

rolli

Blind or not that dial is no indication of that watch's authenticity. I know of 5 104 dials selling over the past 4 months, which means there have been many more sold in total. The OP needs to get closeups of the cyclops, CG pin, and if possible, caseback to determine if the watch is gen.

I'd ask to handle the watch and compare the BB and serial #'s to known rep #'s. Over the last six months or so, the number of frankens on ebay and elsewhere has skyrocketed thanks to the availability of gen parts on the used market, but I don't understand why someone would put a clear rep caseback on a gen watch. Most of the frankens sold wind up being gens w/ the gen CG, clear caseback and movement removed to sell on the side, a rep movement and solid caseback and CG installed onto the franken to sell as gen. I assume this allows scammers to pick up another grand or so on the sale of a $3500 handwind.

Nice!! Love the Gruppo Gamma idea. I like the WWII vintage PAMs but hate inescapable the nazi association. The grupo gamma thing takes a lot of that away--a sort of post-war WWII vintage piece.

I tend to agree with you. As close as they get these things, they could nail them if they really wanted to. I've been doing the PAM thing lately and when you look at some of the projects that members of this and other boards undertake; projects like V CGs, T crowns, FGD and Little Hero Dials (and many others) and how close the actually come to 1:1, you wonder why the rep factories can't do as well.

I used to think they built in flaws purposely to give themselves. chinese government, etc some sort of bizarre "but it's different" plausible deniability or sell multiple versions to each collector. Now I believe there's a simpler explanation. Think of the dozens of little details we worry about. When you build an entire watch, probably with more than a few different people or subcontractors working on different parts you're bound to get variances between rep and gen. When the factories feel a variance is hurting sales (or causes a competing factory to believe they can sell more pieces) they fix it (blue lume on the DS). When our analness is too anal for them to worry about (# of teeth on PAM crowns) they don't.

BTW, Maybe youy have to see it in person but the Deep Sea rep Xtal looks about 60% of the height of the gens I've seen in person. Sadly, a deal breaker for me. Here's to version 3.

Great Job!!! I'm in for 2 Modern and 2 Vintage if you get the brushing down. BTW, IMO the brushed disks should be plated w/ nickel before printing.

Forgive my laziness but are T crowns spring loaded?

Looks very nice. Inspected a gen at the AD today (they had 2 in stock, amusing conidering the snooty saleslady told me in July that there was little chance I would make it to the top of the wait list until 2009. Looks the collapse of the world economy is the long lost key unlocking the pleasantness in the hearts of snooty luxury goods sales help.) From lani's pics the main differences appear to be the previously mentioned font thickness, which is no dealbreaker. What is a dealbreaker for me--unless it's just the pics--is the rep's dramatically less domed xtal. If the xtal is in fact as "undomed" here's to a real version 3.

Anyone know if the serial #'s are randomised?

Thanks Bwhitesox,

looks like I'll need to do some work on this one, ah well you live & learn

Great review Bwhitesox!

IMO the CG issue makes this case a no go. Not only will the look of the watch be obviously different from the way the CG and case meet, but you'll never be able to use the V CG on a different case if an improvement is ever made. Speaking of which, I hope there is a new "Davidsen" out there (a kind of like Davidsen except with the skill to actually get things right) reading these threads. With all the dials and CG available, looks like a run of accurate PreV cases and backs would sell out mighty quick.

I actually like the colours more than the 2007...but I'm not a big fan of the caseback...

Like it. How come they do a decent job with more complex IWC special edition casebacks and the most basic panerai cases turn out to be abortions. Must be the factory.

if they ever turn this into a super rep it would be funny seeing a horde of people wearing a watch thats limited to only 12 .

The turbine may covering a tourbillon, which would make sense since a talented watcmaking student would probably demonstrate his skill by making a tourbillon. The watch has a unitas because that's what the students do their projects on. A couple of years ago somone posted pics of the winner of the schools movement decorating finalists---some were very cool.

IWC probabbly doesn't give a rats ass it's if it's repped. All 12 owners probably know the other 11, and they just want to recruit skilled watchmakers which there is a shortage of. If this is repped, hopefully the kid who designed this will take a valuable lesson, about how the world of luxury goods operates. Bet that will be the last undecorated 6497 he ever proposes to put in a watch.

The work that these guys put into training their african grays: (NSFW):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_cllc4cODI

River just posted one that seems to be the same as the "1:1" version judging by the bad bezel/insert and xtal.

It happens to every message board. You get big, posts start showing up on the first page of google and things get more impersonal. Ask yourself this: How many times have you seen a forum post on google, then logged on to a message board knowing you're never coming back. Maybe you want to know what driver to download to get your kid's computer up and running, or what graphic EQ to buy for the home theater. You see some guy's post on graphic EQs, think he might be able to answer your question, so you PM him to ask. You see this guy's got 3, 853 posts on the home theater forum because he loves home theaters thinks about them all day at work the way we do about watches. You can give a rat's ass about home audio equipment, really. You just want to know if the Sony BQ-4356 is decent so we can go to store, buy it, and go rent Blade Runner the Director's Cut. This guy has tested every EQ device ever made, knows the subtle diferences between every model. And now some rude lazy [censored] is going to take up his time w/ a one sentence PM instead of sifting through his 107 gloriously through posts on that very subject. But you ask anyway. Sometimes you get a response sometimes you don't.

I try to think of this when get a PM: "Bro, where did u get ur gold FM" But after I think about how this guy is the watch equivalent of me looking for an EQ, I usually respond, "From eddie."

In my opinion... The dial makes the watch.

I agree 100%.

Once you have the dial it becomes a numbers game.

Ask yourself:

Are relumed hands good enough?

Is the crown guard an instant tell (of DSN's 104 it is)

How's the crown?

Is the date mag truly 1:1? (on the ultimate 104's it isn't) can I get it 1:1? (yes, you can)

Is the caseback accurate? Do I care if it isn't?

If you can get the watch to where you want it to be (damn near 1:1, IMO, if you're going to invest in a dial) for a price that is an acceptable fraction of buying a gen, then go for it.

My personal calculation is: If I can spend no more than 33% of the lowest cost of a used gen (about $3500 in the case of a 104) and make a watch so accurate, front and back, appearance and function, that only a WIS as anal as me could ever tell the difference, I'll buy a dial. For the record, I've had numerous chances to buy 104 dials for between $400 and $600 and have declined every one, even though I have Jimmy CG's and gen crowns.

Duct tape worked for you? I have a dial on the way and I would like to remove the "L SWISS L" From it

The operative phrase is "it depends." Like PAMman I have done a few experiments. On some dials the printing came off w/ a gentle wipe w/ a lint free cloth. On others, the printing won't come off at all without the black also being stripped. The duct tape idea sounds good because it seems like a "first do no harm" method.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...bayphotohosting

Love the rep-forum "make sure your user name is in the pics" convention. He's really got that rep 196. And, why does Dana Point, California ring such a strong bell?

Why would a rep forum member try to sell a rep on ebay? Because, unlike here, he might run into an idiot who will give him $5000.