marlin22

Where in Fl are you? And what happened?

As long as you have proof of shipping and tracking info. you should be covered. Take the package to the PO and make sure you get an arrival scan as your proof of shipping.

These things happen all the time, don't let it frustrate you. Watches are precision instruments and when in transit are subjected to very rough handling. No mechanical watch is made to withstand excessive shock especially when new and not broken in. Try to make a deal with the TD on your next purchase in return for your bad experience, I'm sure they'll work something out with you. I would go with option 1 and be patient, you'll get your watch. I would agree with Andy, some of these watches are shipped running and this too can cause over banking if jolted. Also, some of them are coming with such high amplitude, that they either over bank at best or break the roller jewel in the worst case scenario. It seems the hair spring is compressed indicating over banking in the clockwise direction. I could be wrong the pictures are not high res. so I did the best with what was there(see picture). Seems the roller jewel is intact, and resting on the clockwise side of the pallet fork safety finger. This is an easy fix, maybe a 5 minute deal if that. Good luck

As you wound it, if it did get hard and give you resistance, then the main spring is OK, check and see if there is anything loose in the movement(loose screw holding the movement gears). Also check to see if something is jamming the balance. It would help if you took a picture of the back and posted it, Good luck..

That is a relative question, it depends on you, and how hard you intend to use the watch and if you want a more gen. look. If you are going to use the watch hard, then the ETA parts are better, it will also give you a much higher resale value in the future. If you want it to look more gen. then I would go with the Asian 6497-2 with the 21600vph movement. That's only IMHO.

The Swiss models that are sold by the dealers in their Swiss upgraded models are the low beat (18000vph) versions. It is not easy for them, or anyone for that matter, to source the high beat movements. They do look very similar at first glance, but the quality of the materials used to build the components is the big difference. Hope this helps good luck with you purchase.

Got it, thanks

OK time out, was the stamping replicated or not? I was always under the impression that they were ETA base plates, like DSNs Ultimate Fiddys? On the second set of pictures it looks like an ETA stamp that has been worn down by the pearling process, I know because at first when I would pearl the base plate it would wear it out like that, until I refined the technique and began to use superfine compounds. But it looks like an authentic ETA stamp??? So, is the first set of pictures ETA? The stamp looks to me more inaccurate than the second set of pictures.

Thanks wOlf, we can always count on you to come through with the goods!!! Keep the pictures coming with a good image of the replicated ETA crest.

Interesting, I was under the impression that was never replicated, sure would like to see one. Thanks wOlf If someone could put up a picture, I would sure like to add that to the 6497 comparison thread I am putting together. It would be just that much more information to release to the membership.

I am perplexed, I am being told that there are older Asian made 6497 movements out there with simulated ETA stamp on them. Not a Swisaniese but an Asian clone movement with a Chinese simulated ETA stamp. Has anyone ever seen one, I haven't and I am very curious to see one. If you have one please post a picture of it.

Can this be true, are certain members of the admin staff, fanning the flames on this matter?

I speak, read and write Spanish... well Cuban if you count that Spanish, Lol

Please read my responses to these false and misleading statements here: http://www.rwg.cc/to...’s/page__st__40 http://www.rwg.cc/to...sw/page__st__60 Learn the diferances between ETA and REP here (It is not complete but you can learn a great deal): http://www.rwg.cc/to...anerai-watches/

Still embellishing, I see... Here is what I clearly posted on the sales thread: "7. Changed ETA balance wheel for rep. for more gen. look" I think it clearly states I changed the ETA balance for a REP!! Where are the lies man! READ READ READ!!!! Read my response to your brother and you about the balance, where you are clearly, again, misleading people and post crapping! On here:http://www.rwg.cc/to...’s/page__st__40 Read my post on the Panerai section of this forum and all others ( http://www.rwg.cc/to...anerai-watches/ ), THE BALANCE IS NOT MADE BY PANERAI! It is a Glucydur licences to Panerai, it is also used on the ETA 6497-2 The Rep world is a very small and tight nit community and I believe where ever you go you WILL BE CALLED OUT!

No lever alone, the entire CG http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crown-Bridge-for-Panerai-Pam-111-Luminor-Marina-44mm-/310304839207?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483f9c1627#ht_4919wt_1162

Set lever screw is loose, if you remove the CG, and you pull the crown, it probably will pull right out of the watch. Try doing this, it wont damage the watch, and will give you an idea of what is going on. Once you try this repost your findings to follow up.

Sorry PeteM, missed it, I am just being overwhelmed with all this OEM confusion that has got everyone going all over the place and the last thing I want to do is contribute to the confusion, I hope you understand. Most of the worlds largest watch co. have or still use ETA in their watches. Panerai is by far not the only watch company to use them. Omega uses the 6497 in their Railmaster XXL ( http://www.omegarolex.com/details/02201.html )

No when I say OEM I mean ETA, remember when it comes to this movement and in some cases the 7750 or 7753, only ETA makes the OEM internal parts not Panerai. So, the Original Equipment Manufacturer is ETA. I am still taking pictures and will make more precise my assesments of the parts with better camparison quotes, in hopes that the membership get a better grip on this issue, it might take a little while before I am done, but when I am complete the thread will be much more specific on the differences. Thanks

Correct, as always you know your stuff!!!

I have compiled this set of side by side pictures to try to explain to the membership all the differences there are between the two and hopefully finally make clear some confusion, and show the membership how easy it is to mislead buyers on parts that cannot be seen. This may take some time and many edits and picture uploads, so be patient please. Now lest get some things clear, first on ETA, I could rant on about how ETA is the largest Swiss movement maker in the world and blah blah blah, but it is easier if you read for yourself here ( http://www.eta.ch/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA ). Now that you have read a little about ETA (I hope) we can proceed. Here are some other links on the specific movement we are talking about in this thread which is the 6497 (http://www.monochrom...panerai-cimier/ and http://www.watches-w...?title=ETA_6497 ) Now you should understand that in this case Panerai does not make this movement and the fact that the 6497 has been around for over 60 years. Let me make it very clear ETA MAKES THE GUTS OF THIS MOVEMENT AND PANERAI MAKES ALL THE PRETTY STUFF THAT ADORNS IT OR DRESSES IT UP, PANERAI DOES NOT MAKE THE PARTS THAT GO INTO THIS MOVEMENT sorry about the caps but it seems many just don’t get it. Panerai OEM is ETA OEM because only ETA is licensed to produce those parts, it is all proprietary To ETA. http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/6497/6497assem.swf The 6497 has several variants and two beat rates 6497-1 = 18000vph (low beat) sec. @ 9:00 6497-2 = 21600vph (high beat) sec. @ 9:00 (Gen. Panerai use this movement in their watches, practically impossible to get and very expensive when found) 6498-1 = 18000vph sec. @ 6:00 6498-2 = 21600vph sec. @ 6:00 Most of the parts you will see here will never be seen on the watch itself because they are buried deep within the watches guts. So let’s start with the main plate, this can be considered the chassis of the watch just like on a car. Here you can see three one is REP the middle is stock ETA and right is modded to look gen. but is still a stock ETA. Most important thing to look for when a watch is advertised as Swiss is the stamp markings under the balance wheel. Only true Swiss movements have this and it is stamped not etched, the REP has no markings at all. On the 6497 there are some numbers on it but the most important thig to look for is the ETA crest stamp. I have not finished my write up, but I want to make one thing very clear. Though the parts may look very much alike, the difference is enormous in the quality of the parts. The ETA parts are a great deal superior to the Chinese counterparts. The ETA parts are made of superior metals and seem to be stronger and heftier. One obvious example is the bridge screws I have sheared off several Chinese screws with out putting any torque on them as opposed to the ETA, they are hardened and I have yet to shear one off. So please don't be fooled as too how similar they are, the main difference is in the quality and longevity of the ETA parts. Back: Front: Now let’s look at the components that go on the front of the base plate and under the dial. This consists of the list of parts pictured below, most of these parts are never seen. Slide pinion: Virtually identical Winding pinion: Also identical Setting lever: Only difference is finish Yoke: Identical Yoke spring: Identical, the ETA might be a little shiner Setting wheel and Intermediate setting wheel: Only differences is finish, ETA is smoother and shinier Minute wheel: Only difference is finish Set lever jumper: Identical, I added a modded one to show how Panerai brushes theirs, beyond that they are the same Set lever jumper retaining screw: Color is different and Rep is slightly domed on the top and ETA is flat Cannon pinion: ETA has a smother finish and brighter shine Hour wheel: Rep is shinier, however Panerai uses a brass wheel see second picture More to come, need to take more pictures to post below Now lets flip the movement and see what parts are in the back side. These parts are more important because here is where all the main mechanical parts of the watch reside. And in the case of some Panerai watches these parts are completely visible to anyone who looks at the back of the watch, and where the largest amount of "tells" are. Escape wheel Third wheel: The third wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Second wheel (they come with long lower pivot for second hand or short pivot for no second hand configurations): The third wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP.. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Center wheel:The center wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Bridge screws(bolts):The ETA is a thicker screw and has a small grip, while the REP has no grip at all. The color is different as well Barrel: Setting lever screw Crown wheel ring Crown wheel Crown wheel screw Click spring Click Click screw Ratchet Wheel Ratchet wheel screw Pallet fork: Pallet bridge: Pallet bridge screws: Balance: Panerai movement which is the ETA 6497-2 use the Glucydur balance that is made and licensed by ETA, the 6497-1 however does not. Glucydur and the balance wheel One of the trademark features of ETA movements is their Glucydur balance wheels, which look like this: Incabloc shock system: Not made by ETA but by Incabloc S.A. and used on ETA movements I hope this helps members understand the differences between the REP parts and the OEM ETA parts. Most of the parts are identical and function the same. I use the ETA parts on my builds because in some cases the ETA parts are built heftier and are obviously made with quality materials. Thanks for looking........

I think the obvious point that everyone is missing is the fact that only the newer less experienced members are coming to the defense of this person not knowing any better and not understanding what lays beneath the salesmanship tactics. I would venture to guess, the majority of his buyers were only members of the forum for less than a year or two. They are still mesmerized by his words, again not taking away from his talents just the shady tactics used to sell, they so naively overlook.

FYI Andy, he was using ETA! He has the parts he couldn't use from the movements for sale on his Ebay store(they might all disappear once this is out). I do the same I just don't charge as much. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SWISS-ETA-6497-PALLET-FORK-/251077427280?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a75618050#ht_886wt_937 Besides it's all ETA anyway, that's what no one understands!

I fully agree with Zig, as for genuine Panerai, I would love to see if anyone has a movement to post. I would be willing to bet that the screw is ETA as is most of the movement.

Just for the record there are differences between the rep and ETA parts, although ever so slight. Here is an example of the bridge screw(bolt), the one on the left is ETA and the one on the right is REP. Notice the very subtle differences between the two, the ETA has small grip and is thicker in diameter than the rep. and there is a color differences as well, they are both heat blued, but from my experience the rep may not be hardened. I have had a few shear off under very little torque where the ETA never have. I will try to put together a thread explaining all of the differences in detail so this never happens again.