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The TC hands look great on your TomHorn! Looks like I most certainly need to grab a set (or two) if even just for the Minh-dialed 1016.

blue.: THANK YOU for the insight. I wouldn't even be undertaking a build like this if it wasn't for the trailblazing guys like you and LHOOQ and Automatico have done. I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a quick PM

I'm at a loss on what to do lume-wise. Maybe I'm over-thinking it and should just leave it alone and get some TC hands. I've just never seen a completed/finished watch without lume on it. Any lume on it. It would be one thing maybe if it already had lume old any kind on it, but I was kind of operating under the assumption that I had to put SOMETHING on there as an un-lumed dial might look odd in the watch?

Thank you Droptop. I'll be posting a large thread about the build once it's all said and done. Soon hopefully;)

And remind me again, is PBDad located in the US?

Hope I don't bore anyone with another thread about a 1016 build, but after having what amounted to what I thought may have been, for me, the luckiest week ever over on the 'bay, I have found myself with now most likely two 1016 builds. Originally, I had started approaching this build around (in my humble opinion) a pretty nice rep 1016 slab serif dial I picked up from Minh. I had been eyeing the dial for a while and had already sent a gen 16013 case over to Jensen at vintagewatchmaker to be re-engraved and have the lug holes drilled out (both of which were done quite well btw). From there I was going to go the ETA and TC hands route and I had, of course, already procured a perfect bezel from JMB. Anyways, checking on eBay late one night I see an Aussie had listed what appeared to be five(!) gen service dials; all ending on different, consecutive days, all un-lumed, and all priced well under $200 at the time with very few people watching, let alone bidding on, the dials. The one ending the soonest had about 30 minutes left to go and was at $101  when I haphazardly put in a low-ball bid of $225.  I hadn't done a ton of research on the seller, but the dials looked great.  I thought, if for some unforeseen reason I do actually win this and it turns out to be fake, I will have at the very least gotten a pretty nice rep dial for less than what I paid for the Minh dial.  Well, I won it.  For $202.25. And while waiting for it to arrive I poured over the (low-res) pictures and started realizing it was legit.  Even sent the crappy listing pictures over to LHOOQ who was kind enough to look them over and say that he also felt that it was probably gen.

And so now the franken build takes on a more serious tone and the hunt for a gen hands set and a gen movement began

I tried to photograph this under a loupe in the harshest natural light conditions I could find.  As you can see there is definitely some very minor scuffs and wear marks throughout.  Frankly though, these blemishes are only noticeable under magnification;  the naked eye doesn't pick them up and I can't imagine them being visible under a plexi.  Also, it'll add to the genuine older feel of the dial (even for a service dial) onc eit gets a proper, more vintage-hued lume job.  More on that in a second...

Lovers of the 1016 can, I think< sympathize with my absolute frustration with rep 1016 dials.  I stand in awe that no one seems to be able to get the fonts and most importantly the spacing correct on the "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" text.  That one detail in particular drove me nuts.  The coronet and the SCOC spacing on the gen dial have finally put my OCD on this to rest.  The back of the dial looks good for a late 70's-early 80's Rolex in-house made service dial.  Looks good to me, and besides I don't recall ever seeing a rep'ed in-house Rolex plate nor have I ever seen a re-dial done on a gen one so this was just a tiny bit more confirmation for me about the dial's authenticity (sorry about the photos, I had a hard time capturing the Rolex engraving on the tarnished back plate)

And then compared to the rep Slab Serif dial from Minh:

I gotta say, I was feeling really happy with the build(s) at this point.  Four days later, I went back on eBay simply to check on the tracking of the dial shipment when, on a lark, I just did a quick search of new listings for "Rolex watch hands" and look what had just been posted not twenty minutes earlier and with a BIN price of $185:

Unquestionably in rough shape, but still, they were gen cal. 1560 hands from an old 5512 and were being sold as in "destroyed condition" by (I think) a retired/ex-watchmaker.  I was obviously already getting into this build deep, sourcing random gen parts here and there; the original inspiration to go "super-franken" started with a gen double-stamped triple six 1016 case back I fell in love with (http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/178594-1016-case-back-double-stamped/?hl=%2B1016+%2Bcase+%2Bback). Between that and the dial, I couldn't say no to these hands and snatched them up instantly.  Side note: regretfully, the gen 1016 case back is incompatible with the 16000 mid case, thus the two projects: the Eta-based 16000 cased Minh dial, and now an uber-franken with the gen dial, hands, case back, 16200 mid, and eventually a gen 1560. I'm not sure why, but I'm hellbent on using this 1016 CB.  Besides, Automatico was telling me a 1016-dialed 1560 is a way east fit in a 162XX case rather than a 16XXX case; no need to change out cannon pinions, etc.

So the BIG and somewhat more pressing issue right now for me is finding a skilled lumer (hopefully in the US too) who is skilled at/enjoys 1016 lume work and hopefully someone who can also do the hands.  I'm hoping the hands don't need to be "repaired" per se, and that they can simply be cleaned up a bit and matched to the dial.  And I know it's a later-era service dial and was most likely slated to be a "Swiss - T<25" branded transitional Luminova dial, but I'd like to give it an older feel with a tritium-esque no glow lume job.  Nothing too "antiqued" or yellow, not even vanilla or creamy colored, but more of (hopefully) a bone/off-white; almost slightly tinted white color similar to limestone.  Does that even make any sense haha?

So to wrap it up, I'd love to hear suggestions on lumers, color choice(s) for the dial/hands, criticisms/observations on the dial and hands, the build, etc.  Everything!  The wonderful RWG community houses sime true 1016 afficionados and exoerts and I wold love to hear everyone's thoughts on the build(s) as it stands and where they're going.  Going to part out my super-franken 6263 I was building to fund the completion of this project.  With this amazing dial, I feel like I'm almost there...

Is ingod back now I hear ?

+1

Can anyone confirm if Ingod is, in fact, back in business?

Saved me some bucks and some headaches ogladio, much appreciated.  Maybe I can convince JMB to work with me on getting it to fit on one of his 1016 case sets.  It almost screws all the way onto the V2 mid case I got from him a month or so back, but the threads are misaligned.  I'm not sure if re-tapping a mid case is possible nor do I know the specs on the 1016 case back threads.  Now that the 160X case has been eliminated as an option, I'm wondering if anyone tried to fit one onto a 162XX mid case? Might be my last hope for trying to get it onto a mid case I already have without shelling out a grand on a gen 1016 mid case if I could even source one.  Saw one on VRF for around 1300 Euro, but it was in awful condition and a bit cost prohibitive anyways

Well, the case back won't fit on a gen 16000 mid case. Threads aren't thick enough. I wonder if it's a difference between modern vs. vintage/older Rolex case construction; if the 1016 case back might fit on a gen 162XX mid case. Maybe it would work with a 1601 mid case )since it's not a modern-era case construction)? Hmm… Going to have to keep my eyes peeled and see if I can find a 1601 case for sale, I'm now determined to use this beautiful CB in a 1016 build

Lo, where did you get that beautiful leather band? Looks like a Hodinkee...

And if it denotes quarter, then the mirrored printing "theory" is backed up by a lack of "IV" or "V" numbered case backs. Seems like 50 bucks well spent

Regarding the VI on Rolex/Tudor watches from 1966, most accepted theory is that someone in assembly line just made a mistake when going for "IV" (mirrored). Other theories of course involved "number of the beast" and various satanic Rolex connections... As far as I know (note, limited knowledge) there are no IV.66 or V.66 Rolex watches, although this does seem like a bold statement.

Here's my explorer cb:

And another triple six bc at that. Thanks for that tidbit of great info. Seems to make perfect sense that if Rolex was able to muck up the case back double stamping as such, it stands to reason that they'd allow a flip-flop printing of the "IV" to "VI" to pass QC muster. And as far as I can find reference to, the first numeral IS supposed to denote quarter...

Excellent. Perlon it is. Thanks mate.

See if you can find a NOS Eulit strap on the bay. I have a perlon obsession (best hot weather strap ever) and it doesn't get any better than Eulit. Not too expensive either, like $30-$70 range.

Aside from the serif issue, I'd say the "ft" and "m" in "2000 ft. = 600 m." look pretty rough. I'm sure or would look nice cases up though, just maybe not for an expensive super franken-type build

Thank you blue and Denim. Glad I took a chance on it. I've found some more photos that show what appear to be double stampings, although not as severely offset as this one. And denim makes a great point about Rolex QC. You'd think something like this wouldn't pass any sort of quality control muster, maybe they just shrugged it off since it was the inside of a case back.

Thank you Drop! Must refer to something other than quarterly assignments. Still curious about that double stamp though, the macro photos almost make me dizzy

I recently purchased a random box of old Rolex parts (mostly sealed NOS tubes, crown, movement parts, etc.) and one of the pieces in the lot was a supposedly gen 1016 case back.  

Upon first glance it certainly appears genuine to my eye: shape and dimensions look good, the wear on it looks appropriate for its supposed age, etc.

It has all the correct stampings on the inside back, but this is where I'm hung up and was hoping some of the resident 1016 experts might be able to chime in with some wisdom.  The case markings appear to have been stamped on the case back twice, one directly on top of the other, albeit slightly offset. In my estimation (and I most definitely could be wrong here), the markings appear to be pressure stamped and not engraved, as they are supposed to be.  And the fonts and letter spacing/positioning seems to be correct.  But I can't seem to find any sort of reference material or evidence pointing to Rolex ever double stamping a case.  I theorized that this was a "repurposed" case back and that it was not originally destined for a 1016 and originally had no reference number stamp on it and perhaps simply stamping a "1016" by itself on the case wasn't possible and accordingly the entire stamping had to be re-done.  Pure assumption however.  Needless to say, this one has me scratching my head, and moving forward I'm going to continue operating under the assumption that it is not genuine (of course, I would love to be shown information to the contrary).

The other thing that gives me pause is the date coding.  It is my understanding that the date coding is a small roman numeral followed by a two-digit year code, the roman numeral representing which quarter of the year the watch was produced in.  Is the roman numeral actually indicative of the month rather than the quarter?  Because a date code of "VI.66" would put it at the "sixth quarter" of 1966, which makes absolutely no sense.  Now, "VI" representing month 6 (i.e., June) makes a little more sense, but I can only ever remember seeing date codes ranging from I-IV (or quarter "one" through quarter "four").  Also, this particular marking looks to be engraved, not pressure stamped like the rest of the markings but I could be wrong there too.  And lastly, there appears to be watchmaker service marks on the inside of the back, from when the watch was most likely whole and being serviced?  And if someone "made" this case back then why would they go through the trouble of scratching in watchmaker marks if the glaringly obvious error of the double stamp was already present?  That in turn, got me thinking that maybe this was in fact a gen case back, just not one for an Explorer.  And that maybe originally it had no ref number stamped on it, was worked on by a watchmaker, and then WAY later got an entire new stamping.  This time with the desirable 1016 ref number stamped on it.  Seems like a lot of trouble to go through for a rep case back (especially one I paid a mere $50 for) and sometimes the simplest answer is also the best, so maybe it is just a weirdo Rolex stamping.  Who knows?  Hopefully some of you pro 1016 guys can shed some light...

Maybe I'm just thinking WAY too much about this and overanalyzing it.  Has anyone ever seen or heard of this type of double stamping before? If so, I would certainly love an education on the matter...

Alas, "old news" to many on this forum. Not sure what you mean by low posts, but a cursory search around here will turn up a plethora of good information (much of it WAY better than the DRSD website). Have you looked at Stefano Mazzariol's blog yet? Another good starting point for reference if this is all still very new to you

Looks great on that Jubilee Freddy. Very nice as always

What's the date range for Daytonas using a riveted 7205? 71 ELs if I'm not mistaken, yes?

That 6263 of yours is what inspired me to start hunting parts for a build of my own. A couple grand later and I'm already 1/3 of the way there. Can't thank you enough lol

Freddy, I love those black dials of yours on the 6239 and the 6263. Gen?

I think it's super cool that it's a family business. I've spoken numerous times with Phong's son Jensen and purchased parts from him (and his father) and they are always extremely helpful, communicative, and just flat out nice folks! Always a pleasure dealing with them

Because this is a community. And if you want to be part of the community you need to contribute. With all due respect, if it's just dollars and cents to you, but from a TD, or save up the money to buy a gen. But if you want to learn about the watch you've been so desperately searching for, purchase one from one of the exceptionally talented senior members/modders here, then you should put some time in on the boards. MMM has every right to choose the buyers for his hard work, and there are more than enough customers for him to choose from, so suffice to say, messaging him with "gimme gimme gimme. Take my money!" probably won't get you the response you're looking for. Just my two cents..

Should just be a CP swap from H2 to H5, no? Not sure if movement ring or interior case diameter need modifying though. Great question...

And an older DW 6241on a vintage Eulit perlon strap. Gen crown, tube, crystal and a 7750->7760. Case set from Jensen for my V72 6263 arrives tomorrow

Ah, prdubis, tomhorn and Freddy's Daytos. The creme de la creme…

Jensen (Phong's son) did some phenomenally accurate engraving on my 6263 case free of charge.  Well, the case sets certainly aren't cheap, but nevertheless he didn't charge me anything extra (on top of his asking price) for the engraving or case aging