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No, I'm saying you gotta look at the series Its the same as my CG thread. A-F have thinner flat CGs. Pre-V/H~current have thicker curved ones. Auto pams have more variations in the CG in that they are polished even for the curved versions (SS), whereas with manual is clearcut, they are all brushed.

Was someone who did do dial refinishing, I just can't remember who it was atm. If I do, i'll post

erm.... :|

Not that I've seen recently. Come to think of it, can't remember one with the right shade of brown in the past even. You'd probably need to get a base dial and have it refinished into brown for your needs.

PAM240 (Auto PAM) J series onwards From the side You can see DSN's is missing the top curvature, which means he is missing the downward slope you would see if you looked up from the lugs. It's nice, thick and beefy, but wrong, though the top down profile is good. BTW, this is indicative of how it should look on a 176/177 and your 091 if it's post G series. PAM 040 (Manual Pam) B series From the side Again very nice side profile, accurate with the exception of the top portion being thicker than it should be. Personally I think thick is good in all things in life From the top Accurate profile with the location of the pin being mildly off. So yeah, though DSN's Ti CGs have improved leaps and bounds, in some cases they are more accurate than in others, so still flawed

What case is that mate?

haha, who knows. It was offered to a mate ready to be shipped out.

I'll type the response out tmrw if its ok? I'm knackered and I need to source the pics from my 240 review and my 040 review. That should illustrate it quite nicely.

Well it depends on how you see it. There arn't any Asian 7753s so the swiss 7753s should command a high premium since they are the only ones that won't have the sunken date wheel issue. However, with the asian 7753 appearing, will people still put such a high premium for 7753s? Only the marketplace and time will tell.

Great review OS. You're right DSN's new Ti CGs are great. They are mildly inaccurate from what I've seen and he uses them on both auto and manual PAMs, but that big chunkiness is lovely and a big step up from his old ones.

Hold off. Got confirmed news that the asian version of the 7753 is due to make its debut post CNY. The 187 was being offered to a friend with the new movement. Obviously it needs to be taken apart and reliability reviewed, but its a good piece of news.

PAM_table_v6.0.xls That would be a massive list! And IMO, less useful now since Panerai seem to have relegated the Historic line literally to history. Most of the cases coming out now are 1950 cases in 44,47,50mm so there is no differentiation in CGs. The only time CGs changed were in the earlier vintage series, the ones I still love and much much prefer. sssurfers PAMtablev6 also has a fair amount of info on CG though not the type, so just keep in mind the general rules. I've updated the table with the more recent 2009/2010 models as well.

My last post was solely for the 001/111 series between A-F & H-onwards. But it applies equally for Pre-V and Pre-A. Pre-V have thick humped CGs, AFAIK Pre-A have thin polished CGs (apologies but Pre-A knowledge for me is still slightly spotty)

Hi hackR, there are differences across the board, but I'll illustrate with just the 001/111 series One the left is a 111I and the right is a 111E All Pre-V and H~current series 111 PAMs utilise a thicker, hump styled CG. You can identify it by the the side profile the top part having a distinctive slope and from front on, the portion with the CG Pin is quite thick. Overall the CG itself is very thick and gives the impression of substantial heft. Also on its side but looking from the base of the watch, you will see a distinct sloping gradient downwards to the body. Quite mesmerizing, for me this is a distinct tell of gen vs rep that many don't mention For all Pre-A and A-F series 001/111 PAMs, they utilise a slightly smaller CG, with larger CG pin. These tend to have uniformly flat tops and bottoms (of different size) with no hump or slopes. Viewed top down, you'll see the area with the pin is mildly thinner and also tends to be dominated by the CG pin head. Generally these come only polished (some other models may come brushed but nothing comes to mind). Also the CG lever is brushed. The G-series was a transition series. Some have said that you can find the thinner smaller CGs on this alongside the older/newer thicker Pre-V/H sereis style CGs. However, I must admit I used to believe this, but more so these days I've not seen a 111G with a thin old style CG and all for sale thus far with thicker new style CGs. Hope that clarifies things. There are differences in the auto range as well, they tend to use a polished version of a thick style CG. Also some of the early Ti models, like the 040 pictured above, have the thin style CG, but with a fairly thick CG pin area. So there are variances, just a general rule of thumb to follow. deniz: What do you mean by rounded edges. As in, all the edges don't have a sharp edge to it. It should, all the way through on all edges be sharpish. lani: cheers mate, just sharing the knowledge and more pics.

We've all seen the pics of the CGs alone, so here they are on a watch and 3D The Seadbo is a great budget CG, but in terms of accuracy to a Pre-V or H~series onwards, the thickness of the CG from the top down for the CG pin is too thin. From the side it's too thin, but a nice shape. BTW, the DSN is sort of correct for a B-series Ti CG, just a little thick

Have had an interesting discussion and issue regarding this on RG over a specific sale of mine. I shan't name names. But the exact circumstances are similar. To me, I feel that in good standing I'd offer half the repair costs. Most said that they would ask the seller to return to sender so we could verify/refund/fix. I'd do the same if I wasn't so busy, and in truth, regulation is a cheap exercise. I'd like to extend trust to people, however I've been burnt before and I think I was burnt on this one recently based on recent news I've had on the issue. But this is life and I do strongly believe in what goes around comes around. I try to treat people with respect and trust, if they don't return it, so what. It's a small sum of money and if your integrity is worth that, then you really arn't worth my time to waste on.

deniz: It's a Panatime loco horse suede strap with a walthar pig buckle.

The GST to me was one of the first acknowledged superreps around. I had one for 2 weeks before I sold it off. The size of it and thickness unfortunately left me less than satisfied. But that's my own personal feelings for it. The watch itself was stunning and like you said, simple and matter of fact. There are very few flaws in it and the ones you mentioned are more issues in assembly/compromises in reps that just occur. In such an instance, all the posts above have addressed them. The datewheel change is the one thing that needs to be done, and do what Taka does, get the german datewheels, even less chance for people to call you out Personally I wouldn't go for a relume as the area is so small, even with a relume it's hardly likely you'll notice it IMO.

Nice..I'm waiting for mine to arrive with the domed plexi and it's the basis for a 3646 mod. Got a Nightwatch thick caseback already. Going to refinish the case. Relume the sandwich dial to a sausage ala gen. Only that 8 will be off. Crown I'm tossing up leaving it sterile and engraving myself or getting a DSN one. Lugs may or may not be soldered for convenience sake, but a small mod that I can always do later on once the right strap has been found.

Now I see what you're talking about. Man...I never know Rollie guys were even more anal than PAM guys. And that's a compliment!

I don't know, but I would disagree. In hand I'm looking at it and the bezel and how they line up. On the gen, it looks like the base of the crown before the beveling is in line with the edge of the bezel which is exactly what I'm seeing in my v3

Hey pug, been a while since I last saw you post Thanks guys, yup, chasing down gen insert sources now. Got one for $100 incl shipping. Decent?

That's also quite a hefty gap between bezel and crystal.

Glad to share guys. Thanks lani for the headsup too. Going to get myself a new insert and perhaps gen bracelet.

Hi all, first off, I'd beg your kindness on this review as can be seen, I'm more of a PAM guy and only recently started moving to smaller sized watches. My desire to purchase a sub only started after I got my vintage Omega Moonie and who else would do but BK? Anyhow, after payment, the watch was shipped and arrived within the one month stipulated period (even with BK away for a number of weeks on holiday). This is not so much a review as a comparison as quite honestly, the tells are a lot less blatant as compared to say a PAM rep. But I'm certain people here will be able to spot them more readily than I can since you guys seem to stare at Rolex pics just like how I stare at PAM pics So on to the pics, comparative pics were sourced of a z-series black Submariner as well so this should be a apples to apples review; Front/Dial 1) Not so much a tell but a difference in inserts. The gen has thicker indices and numbers 2) The Pearl is noticeably different. Less of a metal ring/nonexistant. Some have said the cyclops magnification for the clark crystals is a little low as compared to gen, but I just can't see it. There's a DW pic further down to show the DW, and if you can tell me how far off it is, I'd be much obliged. The dial itself, I cannot really spot anything strongly off. This is the realm of loupes I'd have to say to really spot differences. The rehaut looks good, though on mine I can't say I can see the white crystal gasket which is quite prominent on the gen. Pearl The difference in the pearl is a lot more obvious here. Top Profile These look identical in terms of bezel height and profile. The end links though arn't as tightly machined as the gen. Mild mild gap. Clasp The crown circles are a bit more pronounced on the rep but the shape and sizing is a big step up from the noobmariner clasp. Crown guard profile from the rear looks good. Bottom Profile Again nothing to comment, the bezel teeth look good and are of the same shape, as is the case lug shape. Crown Guard To me the rep does still seem a little thick as compared to the gen. But the v3 fixes the issues the v2 had with regards to un-centered crown. Shine I've polished the case & bracelet using the Macscouver method This to me is a bit of a letdown. Many claim this is not a big deal, but for some reason it does bug the hell out of me. On the wrist it looks great, but somehow, versus 904L, the whiteness is just a stark difference. Lume Compared against a Little Hero PAM111I. 1sec exposure, 2min interval. No PS editing besides cropping. Nice lume. Datewheel Endlinks Unsure if this is the correct engraving, but a nice touch to see there. Pics Now I have a question to ask, is it worthwhile swapping out the bracelet on this to one of the new 316F noobmariner bracelets and keeping the clasp of this. Main reason is for the different sheen. Thoughts? Anyone else done this? As for the watch itself, I finally understand the great following the Submariner has. There is a certain understated elegance about the Submariner that allows it to be both casual and elegant, the combination of brushed bracelet and polished case. As for the BK/WM9. I can't comment for others, but for myself, I'm quite happy with it. I'm far from blown away to be honest. The sheen is an issue for me, to others perhaps not, but it bugs me. But in terms of overall tells, I just can't see much. The differences are minute and can be put down to variances in machining batches. Though the one thing I would do is source a gen insert.