jake48

Any place that has the word 'Brewery" in it and I will be there.

Combine that with watches and it's a done deal...

See you there

:D :D :D

If you can wait a few weeks for my 63 to be finished up, I may be selling my 29. The movement is an undecorated ETA 2893-2 rather than the decorated version (which will be swapped into the 63) and the caseback is 100/500 but it will have a The Zigmeister lume on dial and hands, an OEM crown and custom tube, an excellent modified CG, and as per the gen, no AR.

Archi,

I recently whittled my rep collection down to about twelve watches (from a number that was ridiculously high) - almost everyone of them modded in some way. I stood back and thought to myself - I have done it! I have ALL the watches I sought out for and a few I didn't, but my collection is finally complete!

Well, that didn't last long. Lately I find myself uneasy without a project watch to do and I can not get the 029 and 063 PAM's off my mind. I have decided on a 063 for my project and I want to start with a Davidsen 063 as he as been very good to me due to all the watches I have bought from him. I would like your take on a few things though.

Have you seen one of Davidsen's new 063's lately? (The one with the fatter crown and beefed up CG) Do you think it will need the crown changed? If so who's crown would you recommend - Palp/lelo?

How about the cyclops and date wheel mods. Davidsen himself admitted to me his cyclops is still on the weak side compared to Gen. Do you recommend changing the Date Wheel and the cyclops?

Who do recommend for these parts?

When will this rep collecting madness end......

Oh - I can't wait to see your 063 - how about an 063/029 comparison?

Thanks -

No doubt...for $460, its tough to beat amongst the many makers.

I definitely "wrestled" with the various versions out there....I originally was going to get the same as golfman....but those are sold out...and I really wanted a handwind....just not crazy about an auto ETA movement in these "vintage" pieces...

I think all the Steinhart models are reasonably priced and very attractive...yours is a winner for sure....I'm just waiting on the German holidays to end around the 7th I think before Gunther starts answering emails again....and I get this bad boy on my wrist!

:-)

When you get the watch - you know you have to post pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's in the rules...

Gunther should have emailed you about the new watch....at least he sent me one announcing it....

Stinkin euro to dollar is gonna kill me too...but after looking at Archimede, Stowa, Debaufre, Laco...et al....I just decided to bite it and get this one....I love that movement!!! I love the size as well...I figure if it has to get sold down the line...it will retain its value. And I will never drop $10k on the BP....maybe $10k on a used PAM 233....so, this one is getting my money for sure.

And Gunther reserved a very cool number for me....If you don't want to spend that kind of money than look over on the other fora for some other alternatives....seems there are a lot of fliegers out there at a fraction of the cost of the BP....

I am going to buy this one:

For $460.00 you can't beat it! I am going to try and talk Gunther into a strap like the one Golfman has though. I think the tan strap will look great on this watch. I also intend to try and polish the brushed bezel to resemble the limited edition style bezel as found on Golfman's watch. We will see how it comes out....

This strap:

The limited you are getting is THE Stienhart to own for sure. I have never seen a 6497 modded like that and think you are correct to assume the uniqueness of this watch's movement and limited status should add to it's value...

They aren't posted on the website.

Send an email to Gunther, he will let you know....he already has 30 of them spoken for...and it hasn't even been advertised yet.....will sell out immediately for sure....

The new watch is on the web site under Limited Edition or you can click on the picture of the watch on the openeing page and it will take you to the details page.

Here is the dial:

I have finally set my dates to visit my daughter in London for the end of Feb and I contacted Gunther to ask him if I could come buy and pick up a watch from him. He was very nice and invited me to come and meet with him. I liked the basic Pilot watch he sells and for the price it is such a good deal, but this new watch - WOW! What a great looking movement.

Only one problem - I am getting beat up so bad with the USD to Euro excgange rate that a price tag of $1855.00 USD is out of my reach - DARN! I really like this watch...

Thanks for you're great work The Zigmeister. Happy to report the watch is running +/- 4 Sec a day - and the lume really makes the watch. The lume also helps give the watch a really neat glow in low light conditions too!

Here are a few shots - done without a tripod- but they give you the idea...

Lights out!

Low light shot

PS - AJoe, The Zigmeister put the ETA 7750 I got from you in my MBW AP ROO when he had the B&R out for the re-lume. The AP ROO is running sooooperrrrrb!

Thanks again The Zigmeister & Ajoe...

Hi Jake!

What's the movement???? Swiss I hope!

Yes - Standard 2836-2 ETA

Are 3 days long that I'm using my MW9 .

I can tell you that I was kindly impressed by the GEN feeling that this REp can get to the user.

To get one example:

Rotating the bezel the "Click Click" is like gen , nothing to get in paragon to the "ClanG ClanG" that my MBW did out of the box .

Screwing the crown, it's gently braked by the big o-rings that get their works, that's like in my Gens.

Just to get you one paragon,

when I received the MBW (out of the box), I used it 5 minutes ...............and I decided to mod it.

This one, after 3 days, I feel it like "my Rep watch".

I'm in accord with you guys that some particular have to be inproved in this WM9 too, but jet out of the box it's really good.

Rosnik,

Nice review. I have the Z case WM9 TT Sub. The points you make are all accurate and I agree with your observations 100%

Especially your point that this watch "feels" most like Gen.

Pictures can not describe this quality that the other Rep subs do not have...

Sorry if i began to be boring, but it's definitly one of my favorite watch ...

So some pics with the second strap

Golfman - Keep them coming. My daughter has been in London (attending college) for three months now. My visit to Europe has now been secured for the first week of Feb and I have convinced my wife we need to go to Munich for a few days (she doesn't know I am plotting on her to meet with Herr Steinhart and buy a watch)

Your pictures keep the excitement building so that I can make it to Feb...

You're kidd'n right?

First - All the new "SuperDwellers" come from the same source

Second - follow the numbers:

1

2

3

4

Theres no detailed pic of the crown tube. And umm yes Josh and Andrew often carry different versions of the same watch.

Are you looking at the links I posted?

# 1- first page, first post, 2nd picture...

# 2- first page, first post, 18th picture...

# 4- first page, first post, 18th & 19th picture...

Ive been following this watch for the past week and find it amazing that no one has posted detailed pics. Yes the dealers have pics but their poor quality factory pics. Im really interested in seeing detail pics of the crown stem, rehaut, dial and CGs. Lastly are Andrew and Josh offering the same watch? I know from time to time their watches differ as they sometimes source from different factory's.

You're kidd'n right?

First - All the new "SuperDwellers" come from the same source

Second - follow the numbers:

1

2

3

4

Hey Jake! Long time no see.

As for HKTAN, he's dead slow, but his quality is said to be very good (some disagree, of course. I've only one of his straps). I think because he deals in exotics and very custom-made straps (more custom-made than others, which take time to cut), his backlog becomes quite large.

He might be robbing Peter to pay Paul, moneywise, but as long as people don't mind the length of time, he'll keep on making the straps.

Recently, he had a bad spate of publicity about the length of time on a gen forum, but as I alluded to above, it was due to some very serious family problems.

I can relate...

Good evening to you... Yes, I was sad to hear about HkTan's father and my wife and I had him in our prayers. I had a Davidsen 1950 sitting around that needed a strap with that "vintage" look. I have always admired HKT's "Vintage Cracked" and the idea that the leather came from old train seats intrigued me. Although four months was a long time, I would have been perfectly happy if I received what I ordered.

I expected the leather to have variations from the pictures HKT shows as it is cut from different areas of the leather seats but...

This is what I ordered:

This is what I received:

Don't get me wrong - it is a very well made strap - it's just that when you wait four months with the belief that you have found the strap that will be "just right" for your watch, it is quite the let down to be expecting one thing and with no prior warning or admonishment, receive a totally different looking strap than the one you had hoped for. It is a nice strap, but I still wish that I had the vintage cracked HKT continues to show as the strap he sells, even though it appears he can not make the strap...

I just recieved my strap from HKT a few weeks back - took four months!?!

Communication was OK

It was not really even close to the picture and description he had advertised (cracked vintage), but never the less, it is a very nice strap, it was made very well and I like it.

Would I buy from him again...

Looks near perfect to me!

How did you polish the side of the bracelet?

I have tried numerous ways. This way seems to work the best for me. Using a flat file I wrap 600 grit wet dry sand paper around the file. I place a small container of water on the table in front of me and constantly keep dipping the sand paper in the water as I sand the sides of the bracelet. This keeps the metal particles from building up under the sand paper as you sand. Also, keep changing to fresh sandpaper as the metal wears the effectiveness of the sandpaper down very fast. I sand length wise on the bracelet across the existing brushed finish. Also, keep a dry soft towel close by and continuously wipe the bracelet dry to check your progress. The goal is to complete a consistent sanded finish on the sides that is completely flat in appearance. You should not see any of the original brushed finish marks for the wet sanding to be completed.

After getting the finish uniform in appearance I use some fresh 600 grit sandpaper folded over several times and sand the bracelet sides again using pressure applied by my fingers (no file from here on out). Make sure you continuously dip the sandpaper in water, washing off the metal particles that build up. The softer surface of the folded sandpaper helps get into some of the high low spots that the flat surface of the file does not cover unless you plan on filing for a looong time with the sandpaper wrapped around the file. I then use some 1200 grit wet dry folded, followed by 2500 grit wet dry sandpaper if necessary (if you don't have a dremel to finish with, you will have to work down to 2500 grit sandpaper for sure)

You can do the next part by hand, but a buffing wheel on a dremel is much easier. I then use a high quality polish like semi-chrome, Mother's Aluminum mag polish or my personal favourite - FLITZ (don't use jewelers rouge - it is too thick and the black residue gets in between the bracelet links and is way to time consuming to clean off - especially compared to one of the polishes mentioned.

If you do it by hand the trick to making it easy on yourself is to keep flipping a soft terri cloth style rag (do not use T shirt type material) to a clean spot as you polish away. If you use a dremel be careful not to let the spinning wheel slip down an the to the top of the bracelet (I have tried taping the brushed finish of the bracelet to protect it, but truthfully if you slip with a dremel it is going to burn through the tape anyway) - just be super careful so that you don't have to spend a lot of time going back and re-brushing the top of the bracelet.

Next you will have to clean the bracelet as it will be a mess. First wipe it down as clean as you can with a soft terri cloth rag - continuously using a fresh area of the cloth to remove the black residue. You should be able to get most of the residue with the cloth. Use an old toothbrush to dislodge the black residue in hard to get spots. Some people recommend cleaning the bracelet with a solution of water and liquid soap or a watered down solution of water soluble degreaser, but I prefer not to allow water on the bracelet at this point. You should be able to get all but the smallest amount of residue by wiping thoroughly with the clean soft terri cloth rag.

The final thing I do to give the bracelet the "Gen" like feel is to completely soak the bracelet in a spray on lubricant like WD40 or silicon spray. I work the lubricant into the bracelet with my hands and then wipe it with another clean soft terri cloth rag, spay it again and keep repeating the process until the lubricant has penetrated deep into the links and the cloth comes out clean after wiping with the terri cloth rag.

This process allows the lubricant to bond to the metal so that in the future, when you get your bracelet wet, the metal is protected and the water or whatever wipes of easily. You can use some auto wax before you use the spray on lubricant if you want to create an especially bullet proof finish on the metal, but it really isn't necessary.

Hope this helps - bear in mind this is just how I do it, there are many other ways, but I guarantee if you follow these directions you will have a bracelet that feels, looks and lasts as well as any Gen bracelet out there.

Good Luck!

Wow, that really is a beautiful watch. I am dying to get my hands on a tt sub, looks like this is definetly the way to go. Enjoy that monster!!!

How long ago did you order it??

Believe it or not, I forgot. I can tell you for sure it was at least two months ago, but no more than four. The good news is that for the most part WM9 has them in stock if you are willing to pay the price of $529.00 instead of betting that the other dealers will come out with this version in the future and for a cheaper price...

Thanks Jake for the review and pics. It's the best sub to date, no doubt. I'm disappointed with the bezel teeth angle though. Your pics show perfectly clear that the teeth are too angled down, more so than the MBW and TWB. The bezel department really falls short of my expectation and my old case MBW's is better in terms of bezel teeth accuracy. BUT, this sub has a big advantage - it can take a gen or aftermarket bezel because it has the same assembly. That's more money to spend to chase that last ounce of accuracy.

-bk

bk- I went to an AD today. I checked the Two Tone out and later in the evening I went to a good friend of mines celebration of his daughter's Quincera party. At the party was another friend of mine who was wearing his Gen Two Tone. I had mine and we were able to compare side by side. Although the bezel angle is ever so slightly different as you have described, it is really not noticeable at all. The primary reason it is not that noticeable when compared to a Gen is the finish that WM9 has put on his bezel. It is identical to a Genuine bezel finish and this is more important than the slight difference in the top bezel angle.

No other Rep comes remotely close - What WM9 got right is the finish. On a Genuine bezel (and WM9's too) only the very top of the bezel is polished to a super glossy and smooth, almost mirror like finish with no variations in the surface. The bezel teeth cut outs are more of a dull satin finish and look as if they were notched out after the top of the bezel was polished. The finish on the angles of the bezel below the teeth are a spun satin finish. The WM9 bezel captures this perfectly and is something you have to see in person. I do intend to change the bezel as I have a good source for a solid gold replacement, but truthfully, I would be more concerned about the finish on the bezel than the slight variance in the top angle of the bezel. Believe me, the finish is way more important to the Genuine look of the bezel when you are looking at the watches (Rep vs Gen) in person...

This picture captured it best:

Here is a Gen for comparison - I don't know - looks the same to me - angle and all - maybe MBW got it wrong...

Good and detailed review!

2 questions: Is this the one listed as "VIP's Submariner 16613 2005 F-Serial" on WM9`s website? How does it compare to the MBW TT?

No, it is the 2007 model.

Although the MBW looks similar, they are two totally different watches. The main differences are found in the bezel construction, bracelet construction, case/rehaut and plating quality.

Great review with some good photos thrown in for free! It seems to come down to how much you want to pay, and on this watch you just have to pay more than on others.

I'll admit that I'm happy this watch doesn't cry out to me just yet as it's way too rich for my blood. Congrats on the end of a quest, though.

Thanks Pug - I wish I could take better photos though. I used my photo shop tools like you showed me to make them a little better, but I couldn't use a lot of the pictures because of the glare coming off of the crystal.

Another quest this Rep thing has got me into - photography!

First - This has been a four year quest - and it is just about over! About four years ago I found Reps and decided I would be buy a Two Tone Submariner - I would be forever happy with my Rolex Replica and that would be it. Little did I know I would embark on a quest for the "Perfect Two Tone" that would take me four years, several thousand dollars (I quit counting once I got past $10,000.00) and the purchase of many Reps I never dreamed would be produced...

Is the WM9 TT the "Perfect Two Tone"? - So far... In my quest for the ultimate TT I have spent at least twenty five hundred dollars, but always came up short. I found that every - and I do mean EVERY - Two Tone made has MAJOR flaws. The bottom line is that no matter how much modding you do to any of the "good" Two Tones out there you would always end up with something that looked "OK" If you ended up in the same room with someone else who was wearing a genuine TT sub it really could be quite embarrassing - you didn't have to be a WIS to tell the Replica was not quite right, in fact, they all were very easy to spot - and forget about ever taking the watch off your wrist.

This brings me to the WM9 Two Tone Sub. Right off the bat I will tell you this is the best Two Tone made and NOBODY even comes close - not even remotely!!!!! Is it worth the crazy price Wm9 asks - maybe...

First let me give you a quick run down on the watch:

Pluses - Crown has been moved up and is very close to being in center of case (hard to tell difference from Gen)

Rehaut is identical to Gen

Best 18k plating I have seen -unbelievable!

Bezel is built like Gen and looks to be very very close in all dimensions

Excellent dial

Cyclops has correct magnification and is placed in correct position (away from right edge of dial)

Date numbers are correct shape, centered perfect in date window and date wheel is correct color

Good Crystal height & shape

Best bracelet I have seen (fit & finish/large Gen style pins)

Three piece solid end links with correct solid gold center piece

Negatives - Cr@ppy pearl (good insert though)

Crown is not defined like Gen (sharp edges) and uses old style crown tube (not Gen style crown & tube like the new WM9 16610)

Sides of bracelet are not polished like Gen

Crown Guards are a little on the thick side

Bezel insert should snap in like Gen, but the bezel ID is a little oversized which required some glue to attach the insert

Lazer etched coronet is a little too visible (should not be able to see with the naked eye)

Rep style weak lume

What this watch will need -

Re-press crystal and align date mag and lazer etched corronet (it is a little off)

Thin bezel insert to give crystal a little more height and replace pearl

Thin Crown Guards

Replace Crown & tube with Gen

Polish side of bracelet

Re-Lume watch

Trust me, if you know Rolex Subs and Two Tones you will know that some of the "pluses" I have listed are not easy to come by and in most cases are impossible to find on anything other than a Gen. What I can't describe to you, or show you in pictures, is the quality and feel. This really is another one of the new "Super Reps" that have been coming out lately. The bezel clicks smooth and easy and feels and sounds just like a Genuine. The crown turns smooth and effortlessly just like a Gen. The bracelet fit to the case is the best I have seen and it is a joy to detach the bracelet. It comes off easily and goes back on just as easy - no more bent or tweeked Rep bracelet pins because the lug holes were drilled off center. The 18k plating is outstanding and when I inspected the watch with a 10x loupe I found no unplated areas that seem to be common in Rep plating. The plating was thorough and complete, even in areas on the inside of the bracelet links were it seems the Rep builders seem to "forget" to plate. I also noticed when I put a polish to the bezel, very little if hardly any black residue came off on the rag - a good sign that more real gold was used than brass, which has always been an issue with so called "18k" plating.

Now - about the price... WM9 claims the TT will sell for $779.00 and gives a pre-order price of $529.00. Would I pay $779.00 - probably not. Would I pay $529.00 - you better believe it!

Those that want to bank on the fact that at some time this same watch will come out for a better price can wait. Realistically, I don't see a watch of this quality going for much less than $400.00 and it will probably be little more. Truthfully, I see no need for any of our trusted dealers to come out with this case anytime soon as this new case (with the Genuine style Bezel construction) will render all their parts inventories obsolete.

With the very few mods I have listed, you could easily hand this watch to someone and they would believe it is a Genuine 16613. If you wanted to go over the top - add a solid gold bezel (about $300.00) and Solid gold bracelet (about $2,000.00) and you would have a $7,000.00 watch that cost you around $3,000.00.

Now for some photos:

Gen style bezel construction

Notice lazer etched coronet of center

I have replaced pearl & thinned Bezel insert

Sides of bracelet have been polished

TW Best for comparison

Also - May I kindly ask that the WM9 haters start their own thread. I understand that you think WM9 is ripping people off with his pricing. It is your right not to like his pricing. My suggestion would be don't buy from him...

As far as the previously stated opinions about WM9 being a scammer and a con.... I can tell you that he has been 100% honest with me, answered all of my questions and delivered what he promised. If you are wondering about WM9 for yourself, may I suggest that the first thing you should ask before you believe any of the WM9 hype out there is - Does the poster have any firsthand knowledge of WM9 or are they just repeating hearsay?

Not a class act:

You know I'm going to disagree, so let's at least get past the part where I wish your dad well. Good luck, VB's dad.

As I was saying, if I were subject to a leader whose idea of helping was talking to his imaginary friend, I'd vote the other way next time.

Class act:

I would just like to say that though the "imaginary friend" remark was perhaps a little abrupt given the circumstances, I know our Pugwash now well enough to know there was no malice in his heart.

He simply has entrenched views on the topic, and feels comfortable enough with me to air them, even during this time...

The contrast between the two can be seen with unquestionable clarity.

Amazing act of poor taste...

BTW - V - Your father is in my prayers - God Bless...

That was a really good time It was great to meet some avid collectors, with a real appreciation for watches.

For me, the highlight of the event was the busboy who came over to see if we were selling anything, and then proceeded to point out the only gen on the table (the Monte Blanc chrono) as his favorite That kid has a good eye

Thanks to CC for making the arrangements

I have to say, I got a good laugh out of that one too! 30 + Reps on the table (and some very fine looking ones at that) and the bus boy picks the only Gen on the table as his favorite - classic!

By the way, I was never much of a vintage Daytona fan untill I saw Avitt's masterpieces - holycr@p!

Definitely works of art and those two Daytonas are one of those watches that pictures do no justice - have to see'm in person to appreciate just how fine they are.

I look forward to the next GTG and I will bring a few more works in progress to change it up a little...

I am very tempted to go another step and buy a gen crystal on Ebay and there is also a gen complete bezel assembly currently for sale with insert included. A pricy option I guess but tempting!!

Watcher - This to me is what sets the WM9 Sub apart. If you have sunk to the obsessed level of wanting to build the ULTIMATE franken Sub by using Gen parts and won't rest until it is done - this Sub is a must have. At this point, for the truly obsesed individual who is on a mission to build the ULTIMATE Sub, the rational of how much it cost often takes a back seat.

I say GO FOR IT!!

What a watch it will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to thank Watcher for going forward in buying that watch and review it for us.

I also would like to thank all our usual experts for adding their comments.

It's a very insterresting thread for our community for sure.

It shows how much we love the Sub but also that the best sub will probably never exist right out of the box

I'm sure that most of us, after buying so many different versions, modding them with gen parts, could have afford to buy a brand new genuine one from an AD.

But, that is the fun in this hobby: we will never get bored and still have hope for a next "best" rep version as opposed to simply buying a genuine downtown

Cheers

Stephane

Stephane -You nailed it!!! Very well put...

Watcher - excellent review and very nice watch. You did not throw your money away. For whatever it is worth, in my quest to build a 'perfect" Sub I have spent close to three times what you have into that watch and my Sub is not near as good as that one. I do agree, however, that the watch is overpriced and I really appreciate that you bit the bullet and took a chance - I think you did fine. Hopefully we will see this watch at other dealers for a lower price. If we don't, then you really scored a classic!

Also - I too ordered a watch from Wm9. I ordered the Black dial TT and received confirmation that it will be ready to ship mid November. I hope my watch is a s good as yours and I have a few gen parts to put on it so I hope I end up with a smoke'n TT.

I will post pictures and a detailed review when I receive the watch.

No??? Of course not!! This is the SD thread...

@Jake... this is exactly how they should line up on the SD... the dials of both Angus' verion and the King version had quite good dials. The flaws where more in the hardware section

I know (it is because of the greater dive depth of the SD and the length of the numbers that go with it)... I just find the whole "the M's have to line up" very amusing and I agree 100% with the Mentalist. I have seen Gen sub dials where the M's don't line up too. I just get a little chuckle when we are claiming "known flaws" that are so microsopic that most people can't even see them with the naked eye when they hold the watch 5cm from thier face, yet some claim they can spot the M's while the watch is on the wrist...

Sorry, I digress...

Hi Guys,

Just check-out this very interesting gen link:

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tre...22759&rid=0

It seems that no one available rep can meet this dream machine

Some one from the RWG WIS club needs to tell this guy his watch is a REP!

HIS M's DON'T LINE UP!!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Mmmmmmmmmmm's