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How do you pronounce Rolex? I have been saying Roll-EEEEx but I know some people say R-AW-Leex and others say Roll-Axe. Som say R-ow-lex and others say R-ew-leeks. Someone please solve this crazy mystery! If people post legit responses I may just lose it.

Yes, it is true that IF you service an Asian 7750 is can be OK, but lets break it down: You spend $350 on a watch and then have to send it in to be serviced for another $200. You are now $550 into the watch not including shipping or any other work on it you may have done. If it is a PAM or many other watches you will also need to replace the strap. So suddenly you have a $700 fake watchwith a VERY questionable movement that you will have real problems getting serviced anywhere outside of this board and which replacement parts are nonexistent. I don't know, seems like that $700 could be MUCH better spent on either gens or more dependable fakes. And lets not confuse the DESIGN with the actual movement. The Swiss 7750 is a GREAT movement, VERY well designed, and so the DESIGN of the copy Asian version is just fine. However the EXECUTION sucks... and that is the important part. Over the years I have seen first and and heard second hand more issues with the Asian 7750s than all other movements combined, times 10. If someone complains about a watch problem but does not tell you WHICH watch it is I bet 9 times out of 10 it will be a 7750.

Hambone: It's hard to say exactly where any individual fact comes from because I am not getting them from some single source like a web site or a document. Rather most of this is just commonly accpeted knowledge as reported in most watch trade magazines and can easily be seen if you follow discussions on some of the Panerai boards and forums (and track what things are being sold for). Additionaly some of it is simply anacdotal evidence like the fact that I now see MANY more Panerai sitting at dealers than ever before. Plus I know some of the dealers well enough that they are fairly open with me about their sales info and what the Panerai reps tell them about world wide sales. While Panerai does not release official sales figures the trade magazines track them and post each brands sales and Panerais are down for the first time in 9 years. I think they have sold more watches than ever before but they produced MANY more watches than ever before as well. So when I say "down" I mean from a percentage point of view, which for a niche brand like Panerai is more telling than gross sales numbers. The real bottom line here is simply that Panerai are no longer (or atleast not as much as previously) the "new" and "hot" watch on the market. This however does not mean that it is not a GREAT watch or a watch that wille arn some place in history, it just means that it is not as new and trendy as it once was which I think is probably a GOOD thing. I do thinkPanerai has a LONG way to go in order to earn it's way into any significant role in watch history however. Thus far it is most notable for some really great marketing, now lets see if they can get into some great and inovative watch making. But I enjoy them for sure, I onw 1 gen, have owned others gens in the past and I think I have 6 fakes... so I am a fan for sure.

The Asian 7750 always has been (and still is) a piece of junk. I am dumb enough to STILL have purchased a couple even knowing that they are junk because I liked the watches but yea, they suck for sure. People smarter than I would simply NEVER consider a watch with an Asian 7750, ANY version of it. You cannot judge a movement because it has worked for a couple of months! For God's sake MONTHS is not the barometer of how well something functions... you need YEARS of service to make any purchase, even a fake watch, be worthwhile. This is the down side of fakes that just kills me. It is easy to fool yourself into thinking that any particular fake watch is really good, it looks good tec., but when push comes to shove the quality is just not there, not by a mile. Stick with simple ETA movements and you should have better luck.

I nominate this for the single dumbest thread in the history of all threads about watches anywhere EVER. Just liek I said on the very first response, there is no debate, there is no interpretation there is nothing open to discuss, there is only fact. the watch is pronounced sub-MAR-iner the crew of a submarine in the U.S. are sub-MARINE-ers. Those two things are facts.... People who call crewmembers of a submarine sub-MAR-iners are simply incorect even though it seems more proper (at least in terms of the U.S., not sure how it is pronounced internationally. Again, the watch is sub-MAR-iner

The first one.... Unless you are a guy actually on a submarine, in which case you are the second.

There simply is no debate here and to not understand how excessive advertising equates to a product losing it's "heat" is to miss the fundamental idea of what this conversation is even about! Fact: Panerai sales are down per capita for the first time since the modern exisitence of the company. Meaning that the total percentage of watches sold as compared ot those produced is lower than it has ever been. this likely means that they are simply producing too many watches, not that the gross numbers are down 9I bet in fact that they are up), but still, over production is NOT a good thing and certainly NOT a sign of being a "hot" brand. Fact: Certain models that were impossible to find in dealers just a year ago (Power reserves, submersibles, GMTs, any of the actual limited editions) are now quite commonly seen on the shelf. This ease of availibility is again a sign of lost "heat". Fact: The secondary market for PAMS is absolutley busting at the seems and has driven prices for that market DOWN. Of course extremely rare pieces are still selling for high prices but the more common models that just a year or two back would hold thier value very well now commonly sell for BIG discounts off od retail on the secondary market. Again, a direct result of over production / los of desirability (ie: hottness). These are not debatable issues, these are simply the facts. So if any reasonable person looks at the facts the conclusion is simple: Panerai is not as "hot" as it once was. As a phenomenon it has peaked just as ALL trends and phenomenons do. THAT was the question asked which we were answering it has NOTHING to do with the longevity of the brand name "Panerai" or it's place in history. Patek is not exactly a "hot" brand, in fact it is almost theo polar opposite of "hot". Few peopel know about it, there is nothing trendy or tred setting about it and yet they are immensely well respected and desired in certain circles. "Hot" does not necessarily mean "good". You may feel that panerais place in history is secure, I am not presumptious enough to think that a 10 year old company has secured anything at all just yet. In fact is barely has any actual watch history at all (for God's sake is just now made it's first movement". In 50 years time we can START to judge Panerais place in history as a watch making company, until then it is all speculation and conjecture. Lastly, regarding advertising, tell me, the hottest, newest, coolest club or resaraunt near you... do they advertise like McDonald's does? Brands that do, Brietling, Omega, Tag, Rolex and now Panerai are NOT "hot" brands... they may be great brands, storied brands, desirable brands... but they are not "hot" brands.

It's cool that he is into it but it helps to be a really rich celebrity... makes watch collecting a bit easier all the way around.

re: the bezel pearl. I am not sure why it looks off center in the photo but it is NOT really off center, it is dead on perfect centered so don't let THAT sway you. Any other guesses?

Well I was going to play dumb but yes, in fact I do know and I am testing you... but do not assume the watch to be gen or fake just because I know. I have seen some gens called fakes and vice versa. I am really curious what people think of this one.

I think the pearl may just be the angle of the photo (it is casting a shadow that sort of makes it seem off center).

Thanks for the thoughts, any reason why you think it is a gen because I want to be sure. Thanks

Thus far LeGambleur would get my vote. I don't think it is 100% there yet and it is not really a logo per say, but he has excersized restraint and offered a complete overhaul of the web site that wrks very well and is sophisticated. I think you should give him a coupel of free watches and let him design the entire site in this style.

What do you guys think? Is this thing real or fake? Other photos show that the dial has the properly raised 007 logo, it is just hard to tell in this shot. Thanks

You know, I don't mind the Asian movements but what bugs the HELL out of me is the fact that dealers don't tell you they are Asian "replicas" of genuine ETA. In fact I have purchased watches that specificly said "genuine ETA XXX" and priced accordingly, just to later find out it was a fake. I give credit to those dealers who list "Asian 7750" for example but between all the copy "Swiss" Unitas movements in Pams (almost all of which are actually cheap ass fakes) and now this type of thing is is starting to bug me. Don't list the movement as "ETA 2892" when it simply is NOT that movement! I purchased a first gen PAM GMT that actually DOES have a genuine in it and it costs a fortune so don't mislead people with mislabled stuff.

a 46mm SQUARE watch is HUGE, I mean unbelievably large. Draw out a 46mm square on soem paper... then imagine it on your wrist... it is crazy. MUCH bigger feeling than even 50mm round watches. This thing makes a 47mm XL PAM seem SMALL and that is crazy time.

>>>im seeing a huge sell off amongst WIS however im also seeing much more mainstream exposure in TV shows, commercials and magazines which would tend to suggest that interest amongst the otherwise unknowing, at the moment, public is bound to increase<<< I think the fact that you are seeing more Panerai advertising and so forth is evidence that they are NOT as "hot" as they once were. As my anaolgy tried to point out concering night clubs, when a company has to start pushing it's product harder then it has lost it's "heat". A Hot product in essence sells itself, people want it and those trendsetters are aware of them. By the time the genral public at large knows about them then they are really no longer hot. I guess a lot comes down to what people mean by "hot". Do they mean selling well? Do they mean that they are desirable or considered cool? Do they mean your Mom has heard of them so they have become a household name? To me hot when applied to a luxury item like a watch means that it is the latest and greatest thing, a trendy item that people really want and that are hard to get. In a slightly off topic way you could say a PlayStation 3 is "hot" right now. Everybody wants one but few can get them. Next Christmas when there are millions of PS3 units available it will no longer be hot, though it will in fact have sold many more units and be more profitable then it is now. So hotness to me has more to do with public reaction towards something than it does with profit or even sales. There is no doubt that panerai are MUCH more available now then they once were... more dealers carry them, they make MANY times more than they used to and even "rare" models can commonly be found in retailers windows. They simply are not the hot thing anymore, which is not to say that I don't love them. Listen, no Rolex model with the possible exception of a S.S. Daytona could be considered hot, and yet they are supremely succesfull and porfitable... so it is all in the eye of the beholder I guess.

Re: how many wataches Panerai produced pre 1990's... I think in the context of this conversation it is pointless, if it is 30 or if it is 3,000 or even 30,000 the reality remains that Panerai is NOT a watch company steeped in history with a rich tradition of manufacturing watches. What panerai is is an excercise in marketing and making peopel THINK that there is some historic importance where there is none. I am getting my facts from MANY sources, most notably from press materials given out by panerai themselves during a very large product introduction last year. In it they CLEARLY state (much to my surprise at the time) that Panerai had produced less than 30 watches previous to 1993. I think I have a better understanding however of where the confusion is. Most watches made by "Panerai" pre 1993 were in fact either partially or totally made by Rolex. Most of the early watches wer ein fact sourced to Rolex, some for movements only and other's for the enitre case AND movement. Oddly those Rolex movements (pocket watch movements) were not even made by Rolex themselves but rather purchased from yet another tird party. So calling those early runs "Panerais" is REALLY stretching it. Panerai themselves produced the "handful" of watches I keep talking about. They were really and instrument and tool company and had little to do with time pieces. This is NOT a condemnation of Panerai at all, I love them and own a gen as well as many fakes but again, my point remains that if it is 30 or 30,000 watches there simply is not any real watch making history to them pre 1993. None of this really matters except for the fact that we are talking about what is "hot". Some people think "They have been around for 100 years, they have stood the test of time, bla bla bla" and my point is simply that no they have not! They have NOT stood the test of time at all. Those 30 or 30,000 watches weremilitary tools that had nothing to do with fashion or the public or being "hot" or being well designed. They have been publicly sold products for 10 years and during that time became the "hot" watch and now we are seeing them become less hot. it will be interesting to see how they respond. I agre with an earlier poster who suggested that Richemont may be happy to have them NOT be "hot" any longer. You see being "hot" suggests a fad and a flash in the pan and not being judged on real merit but rather some percoieved social status or something. Richemont seems to be trying to make Panerai into a legit watch making company and if they succeed it could ensure the longevity of the brand. But the question was not "Will Panerai continue to sell watches for decades more?" rather it was "Is Panerai still Hot." Two different answeres to those questions.

I'd love to see some of the more minamalistic, actually DESIGNED logos as oppossed to many of the Photoshop secials that have been pouring in. I think it is great that so many people have given it admirable shots but as another person who works within the advertising and design industry I would appreciate something more sophsiticated and sublte... then again I am not the guy handing out free watches!

>>>theres no mention of divers watches for which they are technically most famous amongst watch lovers and these were definately produced in fairly big numbers, for panerai atleast lol.<<< But that is my point, they did NOT make the "famous" dive watches in any quanity at all, even for a shop as small as Panerai. I mean quite literally they made like a dozen or two... THAT'S IT! Panerai was a military supplier or gauges and the like. When the navy needed a few very secialized waterproof watch cases they commisioned panerai to put those together. they did so using Rolex movements and that was that. They engineered some waterproof cases and also the use of certain luminous materials. None of this is intended to take anything away from Panerai, it is just interesting to understand the truth behind these things. Modern Panerais (up to the point of using in house movements which is just on the verge of happening) are inexpsive to produce (using basic materials liek SS and ETA movements) and are a really stellar example of great marketing. However, as has been pointed out by others, the very thing that makes them cool is now working against that. It is cool that they are unique and different and tool like and all of that... not to mention hard to get and limited. But now they are increasingly NOT hard to get and NOT rare or seldom seen, THAT is probably it's death nell. Think about when a hot club opens. At first they have no sign, they do not advertise, those in the know simply know about it and others are oblivious. As the club ages more of the general public learns of it and tries to get in. When the club is still hot it can make these people line up ands wait. But as time goes one the real trendsetters leave the club in search of the next thing. At this point the club starts advertising and puts up a big sign, no more lines, the general public walks on in thinking that they are now cool. Of course the REAL trendsetters have long left it. Finally the club is forced to solicit ANYONE they can get, out of towners, tourists, suburbanites... what have you. It is a shell of what it once was and certainly no longer cool by any standard. Finally the club closes. I think Panerai is currently in phase two of that or maybe even phase 3. It is still cool but those who made it cool are no longer too interested in it. They have sort of overdone the limited edition thing and it is beating a dead horse a bit... They will go on for sure but where they go is anyone's guess. They will either earn respect with in house movements and live a long life (though no longer being "hot" but rather simply another well respected watch maker). Or they will fail and simply fade away as one of the MANY companies that come and go with the times. I don't think we will see any major changes for years to come but as they say the only cinstabt is change... it is the ONLY thing you can be sure of. Though I would alter that saying to read: "The only constant is change, AND ROLEX" . Rolex is the envy of the watch wolrd because they manage to NOT change and still be desired decade after decade... but they are the RARE (sole?) exception.

I'll tell you what phoband, you can have the romantic dinner with Joshua or Eddie Lee and I will sneek into the backroom while you, um, distract him, to load up on watches... and yes, you will have EARNED your 1/3 cut!

I thought people might enjoy this article which covers the history of Panerai ( I mean the REAL history). note, this is a bit of a PR article designed to play up and hype the brand so take it with a grain of salt... but notice the numbers; "In 1850, Giovanni Panerai opened G. PANERAI & C. in Florence, at that time the capital of Italy. He was succeeded by his son, Leon Francesco, and then by his grandson Guido. In 1914, Guido Panerai went into partnership with Carlo Ronconi, a Naval officer, and this was the start of close collaboration between PAZNERAI and the Italian navy. In 1920, Guido Panerai and his son Giuseppi (great-grandson of Giovanni Panerai) came up with the chronograph MARE NOSTRUM. In 1936, the company delivered a prototype of the RADOMIR WATCH to the Italian Navy, made using a luminescent radium-based material, which was later replaced by tritium, and more recently by Luminova. This was part of an ultra-confidential military project, held to the strictest secrecy. The lever-system winding crown, known as the “Déclic” did not appear until 1942. This system made it possible to go to a depth of 200 meters, which was an outright record for the time. During the 1950s, PANERAI OFFICINE supplied 50 special models to the Egyptian army. The firm prospered from one generation to another for a century and a half, always in the hands of a member of the Panerai family. In 1993, two limited editions of the LUMINOR and the MARE NOSTRUM were for the first time sold on the civilian market, and PANERAI OFFICINE entered into the period known as “PRE-VENDÔME.” In 1995, at the request of the American actor Sylvester Stallone, a lover of the brand, PANERAI OFFICINE brought out three series of MARE NOSTRUM and LUMINOR SUBMERSIBLE, marked “SLYTECH” AND SIGNED ON THE CASE-BACK. These watches were in part sold to the public and also given to the actor, who presented several as gifts to his Hollywood friends, including Arnold Schwartzenegger, who, though known for his attachment to the AUDEMARS PIGUET OFFSHORE, is also a lover of PANERAI. In 1996, the series SLYTECH DAYLIGHT came out to coincide with the film of the same name. Between 1993 and 1997, PANERAI produced 1828 watches. (See PANERAI OFFICINE production /Pre-Vendôme Period.) PANERAI was bought up by the VENDÔME LUXURY GROUP in 1997. Backed by its exclusive image, Vendôme launched into production of limited editions that were snapped up by collectors. The LUMINOR Base and LUMINOR Marina models were introduced at the Geneva International Salon of Master Watch making in 1998, to great public acclaim. In 1999, the group went in search of new customers, especially those who though they dreamt of owning a PANERAI, were not keen on its outsize 44mm. diameter, and the result was the PANERAI OFFICINE LUMINOR 40mm. Once again, whatever purists had to say, the model was a huge success, and sales of LUMINOR 40 mm. in all models now account for around 50% of PANERAI OFFICINE sales in this range of products. In 2002, the firm inaugurated the PANERAI MANUFACTURE, at Neuchâtel, in Switzerland. From 1993 to 2002, PANERAI OFFICINE has produced almost 93,000 watches, with only 1,828 dating from the 5-year “Pre-Vendôme” Period, a 50-fold increase in production since the family firm was bought up. " (artilce end) OK, They made a couple watches for the Italian Navy (I think the actual number is liek 12 or so) and then 50 watches for the Egyption army nearly 2 decades later. They were mainly a case company and an instrument company making compasses and gauges for the military. That is pretty much it, a handful of watches until 1993 when they produced some reproduction watches, Stalone saw them and enjoyed than so with his backing (sort of like Swartzenager and the Hummer) they made less then 2,000 watches in about 5 years... Richemont bought them, marjeted the hell out of them and they now make tens of thousands of watches a year (and growing WAY too quickly). This is STILL a very tiny number as compared to most watch companies but still a MASSIVE increas over what it was making. So you see that in essence Panerai is a 10 year old company loosely based on a couple of watches from the second world war. That does not mean it is BAD in any way, it simply is what it is. Panerai makes cool watche but they are FAR from standing the test of time... hell, Movado runs cirlces aroudn them in terms of history! MOVADO!

Well I was not exagerating but you do have me on a technicality. What I should of said is that panerai made less than 30 watches in a style we typically associate with Panerai for the Italian Navy. Yes, they had some special issues like the Eyptian Army model you speak of but these again were not for the Italian Navy nor are they "typical' of Panerai. At any rate Panerai was a store, not a manufacturer of time peices. They basicly made some watch cases for some specific uses. My point being that the history we see in Panerai ads is largely fictional. Now I agree with you 100% that hyping this "history" is a LOT more interesting than simply being a modern watch company out to make money, but it is important (to me at least) to keep things in perspective. Panerai is a modern and very new watch company. Rolex for exampel has DIRECT lineage to military tool watches they made decades ago, it is the same company making in essence the same watches (only charging MANY times more). Panerai is a 10 year old company with an old name put on it. this only matters in as much as when having a conversation about the longevity of a style of watch "history" cannot be pointed to in panerai's case as a reason it will survive, it has no more history than Jacob and Co. watches.. and does anyone think THOSE will be around in 10 or 20 years? I LOVE Panerai, I think we see less talk about them here simply because good fakes for it have been out a while and the market is saturated. We are seeing great fakes of other brands and that steals the thunder. But in the scheme of things, talking about gens here, I doubt Panerai will be much of a factor in 10 years time, and if it is the watches will be very different than we see now.

Customs was no problem, I put a couple watches in each bag (we were in China for three weeks so we had a lot of luggage) and simply walked on through. I think customs is really a crap shoot but few people have real probelms, though I would not want a case just JAMMED with watches for sure. Ken: To be very honest I am not even sure what Post of the Month consists of, I mean it is just a title right? I am happy that people enjoy the story and have given me much feedback. now it is true it WAS writen months back (in fact YEAR back) but it was never posted HERE until just a week or so back! I am not sure that when something was writen is as important as the content... but again I did not post it to win any title or honor, I just really enjoyed the trip and I am psyched that people are willing to share the experience with me!

A lot of this discussion depends on your age. Very young people may not have seen too many fads come and go and so they lack percpective required to understand that giant watches WILL go away with time... including Panerai (or they will change to something else). I vividily recall wearing GOD AWEFUL clothes int he 80's and thinking "man, I am lucky to have such cool clothes that will be always be cool". I'm talking about hidous pants with like 12 pleats and SUPER baggy but then tappered at the ankle, bolo ties and ridiculous things liek tuxedo shirts. I could not understand how they woudl EVER go out of style or why I woudl EVER not want to wear them. Of course I look back at photos now and feel damn foolish. Similarly putting on a nice thin Movado quartz watch would make me feel silly... but 20 years ago that was the hieght of style and coolness. Today we all love the giant watches because they are cool... in some time people will get sick of them and they will go away. The problem with Panerai is that they are so tied to that ONE style. Many brands that have added big watches will simply take them away, Panerai will have to change thier enitre company and that could prove difficult. The mear fact that we are having this discussion is further proof that the fad is already wanning (and just look at the fall in gen sales for more of that proof).