Guest avitt Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I know that there has been some interest in how these two coating compare. On my last run, I had the opportunity to coat two identical Breitling bracelets, and the following pics show the difference between the coating. In each picture, DLC is the darker, and TiAlN is the lighter: Aside from the difference in shade, there is a significant different in the feel...The DLC bracelet drapes and flexes freely, while the links on the TiAlN tend to stick. A polishing cloth glides across the DLC, but must be dragged over the TiAlN. The hardness of these coatings is supposed to be similar, with the slight edge going to DLC. However, if I had to guess, I would say that the lower coefficient of friction will help the DLC to stay scratch free for longer. Objects that might glide over the surface of DLC may have a tendency to grab and "dig in" to the TiAlN... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asf Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 thanks for the comparison! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Nice comparison Avitt... Thanks for showing us your updates... I llove it. You are working in an arena that we all like.... Thanks for all your efforts and success! MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Based on what I recall of research done a couple years ago, the TiAlN color can vary based on the exact Ti:Al make up of the coating. I think at a certain ratio, the actual nomenclature even becomes AlTiN. Correct me if I'm wrong. T, I'm curious if you've found a coating, be it TiAlN or DLC, that closely replicates the black/bronze color (but not necessarily the feel) of A/B series PAMs? And apologies if you've answered this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Based on what I recall of research done a couple years ago, the TiAlN color can vary based on the exact Ti:Al make up of the coating. I think at a certain ratio, the actual nomenclature even becomes AlTiN. Correct me if I'm wrong. T, I'm curious if you've found a coating, be it TiAlN or DLC, that closely replicates the black/bronze color (but not necessarily the feel) of A/B series PAMs? And apologies if you've answered this before. You are completely correct, Chieftang. TiAlN or AlTiN can vary in color between what you see above (or even lighter), and a dark, almost purple/black. Color matching is a tricky thing, that involves a lot of trial and error. In this case, the objective was to find the coating that comes closest to the Blacksteel. I haven't tried to color match the PVD'd PAMs, although many have used my DLC for these models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Color matching is a tricky thing, that involves a lot of trial and error. In this case, the objective was to find the coating that comes closest to the Blacksteel. Very interesting results but obviously your DLC here isn't anywhere near dark enough for the BS - but then Breitling themselves had a huge learning curve with getting this process right back with the first Skyland BS. I actually really like the 'colder' TiAIN colour - very gunmetal like - just curious how it compares to base Ti though - do you have an old Chrono Avenger to match? Taking that thought further, would it be possible and practically feasible to colour-match a SS part to Ti-look? Assuming a bit of trial and error of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Very interesting results but obviously your DLC here isn't anywhere near dark enough for the BS - but then Breitling themselves had a huge learning curve with getting this process right back with the first Skyland BS. I haven't seen the genuine BS in person, but in terms of matching the rep BS (V2 version, claimed to be DLC), my DLC is actually too dark. Did you catch the earlier thread, where I did essentially the same thing for Jake48? Here is one of his pics: The owner of these bracelets saw that thread, and thought that it would be a good idea to try both DLC and TiAlN (probably hoping that there would be enough variation in the darkness to lead to a match with his case.) I actually really like the 'colder' TiAIN colour - very gunmetal like - just curious how it compares to base Ti though - do you have an old Chrono Avenger to match? Taking that thought further, would it be possible and practically feasible to colour-match a SS part to Ti-look? Assuming a bit of trial and error of course. I don't have a Chrono Avenger for comparison, but comparing the TiAlN with my Ti PAM, it is far too dark: I haven't seen a coating that matches Ti well. The closest matches I've seen have come from blasting the steel with more aggressive media, which actually cuts the surface slightly, and darkens it. I'm not sure if that darkness would remain if the texture was brought back to a brushed or polished finish... I might try a few things, since Ti seems to be a look that's in demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100 Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Avitt, I really like that TiAIN look.. Gonna have an order for ya soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Both look great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Avitt, thanks for those pics.... obviously the contrast/white balance in the bracelet pics makes it look to light - the bracelet pic shows it off perfectly. Yep, just a shade or two too dark. Shame as the Pro II on the BS looks fantastic The rep BS is very close to the gen BS in appearance (except for a bit of variation around the slightly darker pushers) so it wouldn't make any difference. Yep, I know the bead-blasting technique seems to yield the best colour match for Ti, but it tends to be too matte in appearance. I now have another idea about your TiAIN coating - looks very 'tantalum-like' - hence my 192 which I just couldn't get to oxidise evenly. Hmmm, may have to give that some serious thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuDro Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 WOW...FANTASTIC!!! Has anyone seen a BlackSteel SOSF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I now have another idea about your TiAIN coating - looks very 'tantalum-like' - hence my 192 which I just couldn't get to oxidise evenly. Hmmm, may have to give that some serious thought Tantalum, you say? Hmmm.... I'll buy that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake48 Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Hey Avitt - what a coincidence. Guess what watch I am wearing today? Still looks great and not a scratch on it. Here are a couple of quick IPhone shots I just took... Thanks again. You are the man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHiC Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Somewhat off topic, but Ti can be anodized very easily as well. Similar to Al, but you don't even need dyes or caustic materials. I believe the process involves dipping the components in simple saline water and ramping up the voltage across anode/cathode. The voltage determines the thickness of the anodized layer, which in turn determines which wavelengths of light it reflects and absorbs, through almost the whole rainbow spectrum. I'm sure the exact process can be googled. Anyway, I've seen it in action. Different hobby: rc cars. Top end ones are gilt to the teeth with Ti parts exclusively to save weight and add strength (well, Ti and carbon fiber). Some buddies I knew made a very DIY tupperware dipping setup where they individually connected and dipped every last screw/rod/arm/etc. to a bunch of 9V batteries in series, and they tweaked things to end up with a stunning gold color. Looked just like 18K. In the end, the cars were gleaming with bling from every nook and cranny. I thought about trying this on a Ti case for fun, but I don't know much about durability and would need to build a variable dc power source. In theory you can do touch-ups to any newly exposed metal if you use the same original voltage/params/etc. You need also very clean parts to start with, but that's easy of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHiC Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Is that the new iPhone Jake? My plain 3g model takes pics like crap (and I don't think can focus that close either). Those look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake48 Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Is that the new iPhone Jake? My plain 3g model takes pics like crap (and I don't think can focus that close either). Those look great. Yes it is - and it ROCKS! I upgraded from the 1st generation and this one blows my old Iphone away! The camera feature with zoom is amazing. Now lets get this thread back to avitt's beautiful work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Hey Avitt - what a coincidence. Guess what watch I am wearing today? Still looks great and not a scratch on it. Here are a couple of quick IPhone shots I just took... Thanks again. You are the man! Thanks K! It looks great in action! Happy to hear that it's holding up well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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