panerai the early days

[gran]

Interesting post at panerai watchprositecom reposted below...so waddya think..anyhow good news for the replica oriented

In the collecting career of any Panerai enthusiast the highlight most definitely is acquiring one of the original Vintage Panerais that lay the basis of the Legend of Panerai as a War Machine. Tested and proven in the steely fires of battle these machines now adorn the wrists of modern Warriors taking on the challenges of everyday life.

The critical component of a Vintage Panerai is the movement and over the production period of 1936 till 1955 various Rolex work horses were used. The movement is also essential as it forms nearly 50% of the value of the timepiece (and in the case of the Vintage Angelus powered Richemont issued PAM 203, 85% of the value of the watch).

However in authenticating a Vintage Panerai and ensuring the right movement is in the right case can be a daunting task as there were many variations as far as movement markings are concerned and this can confuse a potential Vintage Panerai Collector.

I can tell you now this issue is contentious due to ego and the huge sums of money involved and there are varying degrees of opinions especially from some collectors who believe they know what is the real story that adds to the confusion. However I will try my best to bring facts forward about the movements used in Vintage Panerais and try to show both sides of the argument. The argument being:

There should be consistency in the movements that were used in Vintage Panerais especially post 1946

Vs.

No consistency because that

[hiker01]

Good reading! Thanks, Gran for posting!

[Andei3000]

thanks gran, I changed the font, as the original one is really hard to read

In the collecting career of any Panerai enthusiast the highlight most definitely is acquiring one of the original Vintage Panerais that lay the basis of the Legend of Panerai as a War Machine. Tested and proven in the steely fires of battle these machines now adorn the wrists of modern Warriors taking on the challenges of everyday life.

The critical component of a Vintage Panerai is the movement and over the production period of 1936 till 1955 various Rolex work horses were used. The movement is also essential as it forms nearly 50% of the value of the timepiece (and in the case of the Vintage Angelus powered Richemont issued PAM 203, 85% of the value of the watch).

However in authenticating a Vintage Panerai and ensuring the right movement is in the right case can be a daunting task as there were many variations as far as movement markings are concerned and this can confuse a potential Vintage Panerai Collector.

I can tell you now this issue is contentious due to ego and the huge sums of money involved and there are varying degrees of opinions especially from some collectors who believe they know what is the real story that adds to the confusion. However I will try my best to bring facts forward about the movements used in Vintage Panerais and try to show both sides of the argument. The argument being:

There should be consistency in the movements that were used in Vintage Panerais especially post 1946

Vs.

No consistency because that’s the way they did things in those days and during the war period 1936 to 1946 they had no choice due to poor logistics and unavailability of parts

The danger of having inconsistent movements is that we leave the door open for counterfeiters and peddlers of fake watches who bring them to the market and claim that they are authentic and very rare because they are different from the majority watches with consistent movements.

I would like to bring your attention to Mr. Francesco Ferretti's, a world renowned expert and dealer in Vintage Panerai, opinion on the matter of the variations in the movements found in Vintage Panerais, (It has been machine translated into English from Italian hence not perfect):

"Vintage watches Panerai watches were intended for military during the period from 30 years up to 1956-1960. You must know that in time of war transport and communications letters were not compare to today.

Write a letter could take 10-20 days for delivery (If you arrived!) And transport were very difficult.

Going from La Spezia to Florence today in an hour is normal but in 40 years if everything went well we wanted 2 days and the base of Taranto passed minimum one week hoping not to meet roads or bridges destroyed.

All equipment of the navy had to be perfectly efficient and it was not easy. A La Spezia was a repair shop where a bit of everything and in many cases to make operational equipment they had to dismount to take other parts needed to repair. For watches as for all other things was ARRANGE FOR THE ART!

I have had many Vintage Panerai and I can assure you that I have seen all the colors, hands are made of brass sheet, bridges glued to the budget, rubies replaced with pieces of brass crowns redone with a tube threaded and welded etc ... .........

I believe that most of Vintage Panerai has undergone transplants more or less important.

It is not uncommon with mechanical watches 3646 with 17 Rubis incabloc and 6152 / 1 with 15 Rubis without incabloc. Once I tried always to put the clocks with the right mechanics, but I realized that some collectors, having seen the clock with the mechanics wrong, were not very happy thinking about false or at least the assembled. I now I still do only a review of mechanical and not the restoration most cases because many want the clock to see who lived and not all polished again.

I believe that an entirely original clock and coeval is preferable to one with 15 mechanics and 17 non Rubis with or without incalboc, but these I believe them because they always original from the Italian Navy.

Those who have the mechanics are less thick, with very few pieces used for exposure because more refined and in many cases with the display back that are original, all that I have seen are mostly false."

Now according to Mr. Ferretti due to the Second World War, the poor logistics made it hard for correct parts to be available so it is was imperative that the Italian Navy made do with whatever was available at the time to get the job done. In my humble opinion that is a valid explanation for watches made from 1936 to 1946. Any Vintage Panerais made from 1946 to 1956 should consistently have the same movement in accordance to its case.

Another counter argument is that if various different parts were used to make do during the war time of 1936 to 1946 why do we see movements with such varying degrees of markings and designs on some pieces whereas the majority consistently has the same movements with the same movement markings? And isn't it more expensive to make inconsistent parts vs. consistent parts?

These are unanswered questions that I think no one has the answers to.

Another interesting point mentioned by Mr. Ferretti is:

" Those who have the mechanics are less thick, with very few pieces used for exposure because more refined and in many cases with the display back that are original, all that I have seen are mostly false."

Basically thin Cortebert ebauche based Rolex movements are mostly false in his expert opinion since these thin movements were used at that time in Rolex pocketwatches.

Now going forward the most likely first Vintage Panerai is either a 3646 Radiomir or a 6152-1 Luminor Panerai with the Bridge Crown Protector and that will be my focus.

I will briefly look at the Angelus Calibre 240 movement found in 6152-1 watches with a seconds hand at 9 o'clock.

I hope this guide can be useful for first time Vintage Panerai collectors.

3646 Panerai Radiomir

Panerai used Rolex sourced 16 Ligne 618 Cortebert ebauche based movements for their watches. One French Ligne is equal to 2.25583mm so in this case that should technically equal 36mm however most sources state the movements are 30mm in diameter and in others that they are 34mm in diameter. An ebauche is an incomplete movement that is purchased, assembled and modified by watch companies to their own individual specifications. So the Cortebert ebauches were significantly modified by Rolex.

Most Rolex Cortebert ebauche based movements at the time were originally destined for Rolex Pocketwatches and hence there are similarities between them and the Vintage Panerai Rolex 618 Cortebert ebauche movements keeping in mind the primary difference was the thickness of the movement.

The Rolex 618 Cortebert ebauche based movements were found to be reliable in extreme conditions and became the movement of choice for Panerai Military dive watches.

We will start by first looking at the most common movement found in the 3646 before we proceed to look at exceptions and odd movements.

Common/Consistent Movements

The 17 jewel Rolex movement is the most common found in 3646s and the similarities are clearly evident in the pictures below

15 Jewel 618 Movements

Several prominent sources mention that Panerai used a Rolex 15 jewel 618 movement vs. the more common but better 17 jewel movements.

Konrad Knirim a noted German military watch expert states in one of this articles:

"…..Diese Uhr hat folgende Merkmale: Rolex Geh