In The Sunday New York Times

[crystalcranium]

Many articles on watches and collecting as well as an article on counterfeits. The article focused on the rip off aspect of counterfeits, ie people sold and gifted fakes as genuines. The showed an awful Submariner LV with a 21J movement, a non hologram case sticker, empty pearl recess, lousy green bezel, poor date mag, no maxi dial, as an example, I guess, of a typical counterfeit. They characterized these watches as poor in quality when compared side by side with a genuine, but getting better, I suppose in their ability to fool the un-informed, all the time. The most interesting thing they said is that counterfeit watches are assembled using poor quality asian movements and buyers are cheating themselves out of the opportunity to own a Swiss piece of mechanical craftsmanship. I guess what I heard through all of this is that, not too many people know about us yet. I never have considered the replicas I have collected as low end knock offs. I think what we discuss, buy and trade are high fidelity copies, right down to the quality and origins of the movements, of some of the finest timepieces produced today. I'll stack up my serviced asian 7750 Tag link Chrono or my 2836 SS Submariner against anything mechanical produced at 2 to 3 times the price by Hamilton, Swiss Army, Tissot, or Oris. The fact that those in the know about the counterfeit trade still think it's a business of selling fakes as genuines on the internet to rip off the un-informed means more time for us and our interesting niche hobby.

[fotoman]

we are a very very small % of a large business.

The funny part of all this is - ok, aside from the value of diamonds or gold in a watch - and knowing that quality control is somewhat better - the real observation for our reps is - when you buy expensive watches - your buying 25-35% watch and 75% brand name.

Sure there is some value in the creative aspect. But i bet the chinese have to be just as creative to get a good copy going.

and clearly there are some really interesting and neat movements out there. - but 5000 for a Gen pam, made out of SS - with the same movement you can get for 300 bucks - and a 100$ strap

point is- most watches are a rip off. Way more name than substance. -

in my opinion anyway

i heard my father say something - looking at a Patek gen - which was just a simple 2 hand, minute and seconds watch in i think white gold, for like 10,000 -

and he said - oh, thats a good price to get a patek.

Exactly what about that watch, other than the name stamped on it makes it 8500 more valuable than my movado gen.

this is all a symtom of the larger evil in our world the push of advertisers to make us think we must have certain things - and our willingness to shun financial responcibilty and prudent behavior in order to obtain them

ok - anyway, nice post - interesting article

[Watchmeister]

I read the same article om counterfeiting. It acknowledged that the reps have gotten better. But they are clearly not aware of the highest echelons. Then again we are a pimple on the ass of the rep business.

[cromodora]

I read the same article om counterfeiting. It acknowledged that the reps have gotten better. But they are clearly not aware of the highest echelons. Then again we are a pimple on the ass of the rep business.

And we should make sure it stays that way

[fotoman]

I read the same article om counterfeiting. It acknowledged that the reps have gotten better. But they are clearly not aware of the highest echelons. Then again we are a pimple on the ass of the rep business.

KRuz - whitehead or blackhead pimple?

[mums-mums]

Fully agree to the above posts.

I am fascinated by the fine mechanics and 'jewelry' of mid/high end watches, but I am no way willing (maybe able now and then) to pay 5-10K or more for a gen, when I can have 90% of the finish and mech quality for 10% of the price of the gen.

I have been "looking at" replicas for a couple of years, but bought my first some six weeks ago. An IWC Porto Chrono from Silix which I am very impressed by and comfortable with (both SIlix and the IWC). Before I found RWG I did not feel confident with any of the replica dealers in the "open". Actually I considered George/WM9, but ended every time at the conclusion that 500-600 for my first rep was too much as long as I more or less knew nothing about reps.

I have a few gens (vintage Omegas and other Swiss) which is resting in the box and not getting wristtime at all. Probably paid a little to much for them, but like to keep and look at now and then. The only "gen" I have that I consider a "good deal" is my Invicta 9937 at 300$. Keeps excellent time, nice sub design, holds any beating with only minor scratches and has the "substance". I am certainly going to get me a couple of new reps (a basic collection) coming months, but no plans for any gen.

[elwopo]

this is all a symtom of the larger evil in our world the push of advertisers to make us think we must have certain things - and our willingness to shun financial responcibilty and prudent behavior in order to obtain them

Now THAT'S one of the smartest, truthful, and most insightful statements ever made!