Panerai 183 Blackseal, how you rate this rep ? Options

[Thor]

Page 1:

Hi,

I am considering getting a blackseal can you please tell me how you rate the watch shown in the pictures i attach.

Thank you.

and for your reference this is from homer.

This is a good rep. The dial is the best matte type and the hands are accurate. The only thing that lets it down is the movt as it has the older style 6497. If you can get this with the later movt with the modified bridges and swan neck regulatuer that is the one to go for.

Steer clear of the one that has the AR coat and Super lume as the dial and hands are wrong - some dealers have it.

Looks great. IMHO, the first really close PAM rep. On the wrist it looks fabulous. The 183 now comes in 3-4 versions. You can spend twice as much for one version versus another. That one probably has a good price point. Finepics is right about movement bridges. Most of the price difference comes in movement aesthetics, although I believe you can now get a new chinese based movement. In general, they are usually Unitas movements. I have never bought from Homer but many people here have really nice things to say about him. If price is less of an issue than accuracy, take a look at the various versions. There are several. :smile:

Do you have or you can point me where to see pics of the modified bridges ?

I read that this is the issue with the panerai reps but i dont think that i undestand correctly what the bridge issue is.

thanks

This is it (in a fiddy)

thank you, so i will try to find the black dial 183 with the movement you posted.

is it also a unitas ?

thanks

Search for posts by DEsert Dog. He is looking at this watch and has posted many photos of the movt.

None of them are Unitas. Just to explain that - Unitas was a company that originally designed this pocketwatch movt and was eventually taken over by the Swatch/ETA group (this was when the quartz watch appeared from Japan and killed the Swiss watch industry) so the movement that this is based on is the ETA 6497-1. The Chinese rep makers have modified the movt in the same way that ETA does for Panerai - by making new bridge plates and engraving them. Strictly speaking the movt in a Panerai is slightly different and is an ETA 6497-2. They are essentially the same apart from the beat rate of the 6497-2 which is higher (not that you could tell by looking).

So as you tell me here there is no blackseal replica that has the AR and the super lume and the dial/ hands are correct and all those combined with an ETA 6497-1

i am i getting this right ? i hope i am wrong ...

Correct - no rep ahs all these things in one. Super lume can be easily done by me or Ziggy and Palpatine (depends where in the world you are). The AR coat is also something that can be done by Skylinegtr. I'm trying to post photos of the proper ones but image shack is very slow tonight!! Will do them as soon as I can

Panarai does bit more to the movement then merely putting engraved bridges, the main thing is balance weal and mainspring; fully functional ETA movements are generally not available to rep manufacturers, thus there will be some Asian parts in them other then bridges. But to add more to the new vs. old bridges, it is not a mater of wrong and right (both have flows!) the "new style" bridges are just that, newer versions, genuine PAMs used to have the "old style" bridges as well, obviously one would not want to have the old type of movement in a new model watch as this would be a dead give away, thus all this discussion this. All of this movements are of great quality though, and make the 183 excellent rep.

Panerai does absolutely nothing to the movts at all, it's all done by ETA. They use a different movt to start with - the ETA 6497-2 is not the 6497-1 that we have in the reps. The 6497-2 is denoted as such because it has a different balance etc etc and is not available to buy unless you are a brand name maker. You can buy spare parts but not the whole thing, and it is not true to say that the movts do not come ready to use - they most certainly do and there are no asian parts needed to make them functional. The asian makers buy in these things by the 1000's to ostensibly use in genuine branded Chinese watches, but then some of them are diverted to the reps. This is why it's difficult for ETA to stop the rep makers.

Image shack has sorted itself out now so here are the two types of movt in the 183 that you should be going for. These pics came courtesy of my good mate Joshua who I am sure will be only too happy to sell you either of these models assuming they are still being made.

Thank you finepics ,

as i see (newbies eyes) the only difference is the engravings. am i right ?

i like better the G series black seal on the bottom so which of those two is correct for 183 g ?

thanks

183G would use the bottom pic with paneraipaneraipaneraipaneraipanerai

183H would use the top one

also the difference is on the dial. it says either radiomir panerai blackseal or radiomir blackseal panerai depending if it's a 183G or H

what specicially abt the dial and hands are wrong with superlume and AR models

does AR really make much a difference, i have i t on my glasses and its a [censored], always have those wierd reflextions , i donno

[Thor]

Post 2:

The dial is a satin painted finish and it should be a matte black. Also the minute hand has a raised lip around the edge of the centre hole (hard to see in the pics). The AR coat is on the inside of the glass and is very good.

I can vouch for these opinions as I've owned all three versions! Your first choice is actually one of the nicest looking, head on. The dial looks best and case is really well finished and that movement, with the older bridges, just 'feels' better than the modified version that came next. Still base on looks, I flipped that first 183F, and got the mod'd bridges and immediately did not like the detail on the movement; as well it was rough to wind, as well the lum was weak. I returned that for the just released 183H and have settled on that particular Black Seal now. (I liked the 2005 dial text swap and new plainer Cote de Geneve bridges.) The only thing I don't like about the new 183H is the lug screws are not as nice as the two older version cases ... small detail ... BTW I also kept a PAM120 which is the BASIC Radiomir, same as your 1st choice, sans the sub seconds and I really like that one, old movement and all.

Now you have this new Chinese movement to consider as well. I have seen it with both new and old Black Seal dial dials configs. Might be the best price option? All these new movements, there needs to be a SALE

I dont know ... i ordered a Pam 183G ETA 6497-1 correct bridges .. dont know about swan neck... i will have it sometime this week shipped from UK paid 345 $ i dont know what i will get i hope this is as close as it gets ....

how can i know that this is as stated eta movement or an asian rep movement ?

thanks

John

Look under the balance wheel at the edge of the baseplate. It will be stamped ETA and 6497-1.

can somone point out the balance wheel

This is the balance wheel that swings back and forth. Just to the right of the red ring (in the shadowy area) around the screw, this was to show a dealer a missing part on another movt I had, you can just see on the lower plate some numbers. This is the movt number 6497-1. there will also be the ETA mark although sometimes this is ground out but you will see where it was.

which dealer has it with missing screw

Can anyone point out where a proper 183 H can be found? EL sent me photos of his (the one without "PANERAIPANERAIPANERAI" on the bridges but the dial does not say:

RADIOMIR

BLACK SEAL

PANERAI

It says:

RADIOMIR

PANERAI

BLACK SEAL

So I think it must be terribly flawed.

RADIOMIR

PANERAI

BLACK SEAL

this is correct ...

go for a 183G correct bridges and swan neck from PT this watch is excellent

It's correct for the "G" but I was looking at the "H".

Who is PT (I've been a bit disconnected lately) and how do I contact him?

Searching around I've noticed that there are "Swiss" PAMs and "Asian" PAMs. Also I've seen where jewel holes are plugged and look pretty poor. I'm wanting to find out where to get the most current and best 183 (ala "who has the best sub?")

Not "plugged jewel holes"... you are looking at the tops of the bridge mounting dowells. Ziggy has already covered this topic. Of course you cannot see these dowells on movements that have the sticky-back "engraved" foil on the bridges.

happy timekeeping!

Clive

Clive well told, try vising www.precioustime-uk.com

he is hones ask about correct 183h and he will guide you.

also you might consider getting an asian movement as ziggy told as they are very well made. you will save some bucks.

John

I think the Swiss movment panerai is good