Confirmed SCAMMER LIST across all boards?

[PeteM]

This issue has been discussed many times before unfortunately this issue of scamming is a sad part of our hobby and to some extent our community...it is or rather can be cyclical in terms of the number r reports of them occurring here...

 

And because of that this sort of thread has been posted and discussed many times before over the years with similar if not the same sorts of ideas... I am sure that it is a subject discussed and considered by the Crew here on many occasions and I am sure all these ideas as well as many others have been considered and debated.

 

However just taking a few of those ideas mentioned you can easily see how those can be avioded or mitigated by anyone wanting to scam... an escrow for example putting aside the logistics of provding such a service would push the ability to scam onto the buyer if he chose to... and as well could easily be misused espcially considering that effectively what we are doing is illegal

 

Then you look at payments or deposit/debentures etc etc ..this only makes it harder and more dictorial for honest and genuine guys to sell thier watches, (afterall scamming only accounts for less than half a percent at most of our great memebership the rest being honest guys) this creates hardship for genuine sellers and only means the scammers cut thier margins or increase thier scams to cover the tax of selling.

 

The look at a list... again it is full of holes in practice... how do you decide who should be on it, as I said before the manner of compiling such a list can be very unfair and non objective to the genuine seller and easily abused by another person or even scam buyer..

 

That indeed is another point so far all these suggestions are trying to make it harder for a scam seller but by doing something like these suggestions you are making it easier for a scam buyer...

 

So then you say what should we do? Well fisrtly we need to consider if we are overreacting..... I personally have seen this same levels of scams during my time here and it has been done only occasionally by trusted and longish term members (though that is usually with watch mods, or aftermarket parts/services) it is mainly new members or not been about long or hardly involved members etc etc....I dont believe the number is any higher than it was a few years back...

 

A lot of the time if we are honest what pushes us to buy is we are excited and in a rush before any one else to get something so because of that we throw good judgement to the side...or we make the mistake of assuming because we are here we are safe... WE AINT!

 

However what has changed alot is the way guys use this place.... I am always seeing/reading abut guys that clearly havent read the introductions and guides or the rules in selling and advice in buying then buy something, get stung and expect someone else to sort it out.... when they didnt do the basics of buying before parting with thier money

 

The same basics you see on any forum, gen or rep, watch or other item etc.... when you sell elsewhere you dont see any of these suggestions in place... what you see are guys that sell thier stuff and provide references if asked for and members that seek references or feedback... they do thier due diligence because they dont want to get scammed or lose money.

In the event of a scammer he is banned but unfortunately as in real life thier is nothing to prevent that scammer coming back under another guise...so again it is down to the individual to do his research and engage the seller..."Buy the seller not the watch"

 

I do feel sorry for the guys that got stung but at the same time I ask them to think about exactly what did they do to check the seller before buying? Did they read the advice and guides here, or the sellers history in terms of posts and topics, did they ask for references, did they check his profile and then did they balance that information against the risk of sending that guy money...

 

We cannot expect any forum admin to control us beyond the norms.... we are ulitimately responsible for our own actions...I know its easy to say but it is true no matter where we are... maybe we could consider a minimum post count or a length of membership but ultimately that doesnt protect you...I have seen guys here well established doing similar stuff to members here mainly because their circumstances change they get desperate they look for easy money and who better to screw than your friends...

 

Then you also need to consider the definition of scam.... is it just someone that takes your money and you get nothing or is it someone that misdescribes an item or is it a buyer that makes a claim back or has a change of mind and tries to get a refund despite the seller doing nothing wrong ..the variations go on and on... the fact is their is no one defintion in this sort of forum... and perhaps by preventing one type you are allowing another type..

 

For example you sell a watch under some strict control as maybe suggested above... and then the buyer decides the watch is too big or he drops it while unopening it..all of a sudden you have a 'scam' (I use the term lossely) buyer who can back track using the suggested controls and as a genuine seller you now have to take back the watch and refund the guy or you will be a scammer or worse etc etc... it is as I mentioned before a double edged sword..

 

I wish I had the best answer..I dont but without sounding like half empty sort of guy I dont think any of the suggestions actually solve the problem or the core of the problem and what really allows these guys or most of these guys to get away with it....ourselves

 

Ultimately we as individuals are responsible for ourselves and in ensuring, like nearly every other forum, that we satisfy ourselves that we are not being scammed.

 

The question anyone should ask themselves as a buyer is ..."What is the risk of buying from this guy and can I afford to take that risk and lose my money?" If the answer is anything but an assured yes then it is simply a case of not buying or doing more research and getting more information about the guy ...exactly like you would elsewhere or in the real world...

 

Just my penny's worth guys ..its not pointed at anyone...