bertieng Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Can anyone advise if the PVD coating on PAM from the delaers is real and the same as the gen. colour? Or it is necessary to make a re-coat to get the gen. look? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Can anyone advise if the PVD coating on PAM from the delaers is real and the same as the gen. colour? Or it is necessary to make a re-coat to get the gen. look? Thanks. Where do you plan on having your watch re coated? Do you know someone who does small scale vapor deposition coatings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Davidsen's PVD is true PVD. The so-called 'PVD' of other reps is something different -- most likely black oxide. It looks a little darker and shinier than the real thing. Even Davidsen's may not be exactly like gen PAMs. The overall look of a PVD surface depends both on the single PVD treatment and the previous beadblasting treatment. Even gen PVD pams may differ on different models and releases. Davidsen's PVD is very nicely looking, anyway. The most close-with-the-gen PVD treatment is most likely that from palpatine: he uses the same company that makes PVD treatment on genuines. You may also get a good PVD coating from Finepics. Apart from Davidsen, palpatine and Finepics I am not in knowledge of any other chances, after IWW's stepback. All those three chances are very good anyway. Edit: also rbj recently started providing PVD service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 The Ti an coating which was often used by PAM is available through Finepics. His person uses the proper beadblasting process to get that slight shean that gen PVD PAM's have. Palpatine has an excellent person as well. You will get a great and durable product but it is closer to black than gray. I believe some PAM's have the same coating. On Davidsen he has a color similar to Finepics but somehow it does not have that shean. I have utilized the PVD services of Palp and Finepics. Davidsen's I have not. And no, reps from the larger manufacturers do not have a proper PVD coating. Usually it is anodized. PVD coating is expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Usually it is anodized. Hi kruzer, isn't anodizing supposed on aluminium only? I wonder how could it get performed on steel, iron or brass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 You are absolutely right about steel and anodizing. I was keeping it simple. Steel is usually blackened with black oxide. If you apply it hot you get a shinier finish. If you apply cold you get a flatter finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Thanks for the clarification! I was also not in knowledge of the temperature issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 It just came to my mind that either a) it is not black oxide, or b ) it is not done on stainless steel. Black oxide is an oxidation process, and stainless steel simply does not oxidate. Back to the drawing board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 It just came to my mind that either a) it is not black oxide, or b ) it is not done on stainless steel. Black oxide is an oxidation process, and stainless steel simply does not oxidate. Back to the drawing board... Just to add some thoughts to the mix...I've spent quite some time (and effort) in finding out about PVD methods used on reps by larger rep factories, and form what I gathered from different sources (all based in China and south-east Asia) - I can say I believe it's the REAL PVD. It differs greatly (or not so) from the gen Panerai PVD simply due to the surface the PVD is applied onto. The rep PVD cases are S/S (as most of you know) and are brushed (just like PAM 250 for example) before they undergo the PVD process. And they swear it's REAL PVD! They also tried with polished S/S cases and the result was too shiny look. The reply I got from few sources is very similar and states that S/S case brushing process is simply much cheaper even in China than bead blasting - the finish of the gens. Also they said getting that subdued matte gen PVD finish was always something that bugged them for some time and so far they haven't been able to achieve it, simply because of the brushed finish and surface characteristics of the brushed case. So it looks like it's all due to cost savings on bead blasting and proper preparation of the case surface before the PVD process. I was told that the initial DLC/anodizing shine and appearance will wear off with time, and get very close to the PVD finish found on gens. Well, all I can say is - I have had 009B for 6 months now, on and off, and I can't tell the bl00dy difference between the finish it came with and the current one - to me it looks exactly the same. Maybe I should start wearing it more often and start brushing it against some rough objects There you have it, just my 2 cents... cheers, babola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 If it is PVD on the reps it is more durable than the PVD on gens. That is part of the problem. The cold process would make sense as it is more durable. But as other people have said the coloring can vary dramatically. Here are two crowns which both have PVD with dramatically different results. And they ain't our typical rep crowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) If it is PVD on the reps it is more durable than the PVD on gens. That is part of the problem. The cold process would make sense as it is more durable. But as other people have said the coloring can vary dramatically. Here are two crowns which both have PVD with dramatically different results. And they ain't our typical rep crowns. Hmm, the crown on the left looks more like aged Ti than PVD I agree with what you said about rep PVD being more durable, I never had a gen PVD watch, but I know my standard rep 9B PVD hasn't lost it's appearance even after some minor bumps and scratches. I wonder how deep/thick the PVD coating on these really is. So I guess it must be true, the PVD finish we get on our rep Pam PVD models is real PVD, just different flavour... I also wish it wasn't that jet-black in color, but as I said above, I was told it should wear off with time...the only problem is time is something I don't have much these days, LOL ! cheers, babola Edited May 23, 2007 by babola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Babola, really thanks! I was just beginning to wonder whether it could not be true PVD, after all, it would be the simplest solution to everything. And your findings now gave us the solution. The fact the the underlying finish (brushed rather than beadblasted) is enough to give the shinier look, and that colouring differences may vary from a quite dark black to gray, makes sense on all the features we find in rep PVD. I just feel some doubts about the shiny look may fade away with time. It being due to the underlying layer rather than the PVD layer, this would require that the PVD layer fades away well before the surface can reach a matte look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now