Adjusted To 5 Positions....perhaps A Stupid Question

[crystalcranium]

I've gone through the process of adjusting and regulating several of my watches. It's a bit tedious. I usually leave the adjusted watch dial up overnight to evaluate the preciseness of the latest micro-move of the regulator as I zero in on 2-3 sec/day which I consider to be as close as I'm going to get...but I never repeat this process evaluating the running of the watch in the other 4 positions. If I found the perfectly adjusted watch for dial up running runs 10 seconds fast crown up, would I adjust it further and wouldn't zeroing in on crown up perfect running screw up my previously perfect adjustment for dial up running????

How do you guys do this?

[takashi]

Similar method as you. It's easier if the movement has hack function so that I can sync it with internet time. Usually I adjust it only in 1 position (i.e: flat on a table). Usually I will get +/- 5 seconds result per day (I am happy with this).

Proper adjustment should be done using timing machine.

[crystalcranium]

Similar method as you. It's easier if the movement has hack function so that I can sync it with internet time. Usually I adjust it only in 1 position (i.e: flat on a table). Usually I will get +/- 5 seconds result per day (I am happy with this).

Proper adjustment should be done using timing machine.

So adjusting to 5 positions and temperature means regulating in one position and hoping for the best in the other 4?

[takashi]

Nope. The actual 5 positions testing is as follow: the movement will be tested in all 5 positions (COSC standard) with varying temperature. They would then average the result to get the best adjustment. That's why they certified as -4/+6 secs per day. Anyway, this is done without the dial, hands, etc (in the case of COSC, only the movement involved). To get exact 0 sec is nearly impossible.

[crystalcranium]

Nope. The actual 5 positions testing is as follow: the movement will be tested in all 5 positions (COSC standard) with varying temperature. They would then average the result to get the best adjustment. That's why they certified as -4/+6 secs per day. Anyway, this is done without the dial, hands, etc (in the case of COSC, only the movement involved). To get exact 0 sec is nearly impossible.

So adjusted to 5 positions doesn't literally mean adjusted IN 5 positions but rather adjustable to accuracy in all 5 positions with one regulation adjustment. Adjusted to 5 positions is a statement of movement adjustability and quality rather than a literal statement of how it was adjusted?????

So if I have a watch that runs +-4 sec/day dial up but runs +20 sec/day crown up, trying to adjust it further is in vain? The watch is not of high enough quality to run accurately in multiple orientations???

[NRG]

Yes, trying to adjust it further is a waste of effort because your watch is poorly regulated if DU it is -4 and CU +20.

What you are doing by moving the regulator arm, and many get this wrong, is you are adjusting the 'rate' of the watch. You are not regulating it at all.

Regulating a watch involves many tiny adjustments to the hairspring, regulator pins, balance jewels, pallet jewels etc etc. so that the rate difference between your 5 positions is minimal IE the -6/+4 often quoted COSC standard. It is incredibly difficult to achieve this and is beyond many movements basic capability or quality to achieve it.

Ideally rate can only be adjusted adequately if the regulation of the watch is good enough in the first place.

There are some excellent article on TZ by Walt Odets on this.

[crystalcranium]

Yes, trying to adjust it further is a waste of effort because your watch is poorly regulated if DU it is -4 and CU +20.

What you are doing by moving the regulator arm, and many get this wrong, is you are adjusting the 'rate' of the watch. You are not regulating it at all.

Regulating a watch involves many tiny adjustments to the hairspring, regulator pins, balance jewels, pallet jewels etc etc. so that the rate difference between your 5 positions is minimal IE the -6/+4 often quoted COSC standard. It is incredibly difficult to achieve this and is beyond many movements basic capability or quality to achieve it.

Ideally rate can only be adjusted adequately if the regulation of the watch is good enough in the first place.

There are some excellent article on TZ by Walt Odets on this.

Thanks. Great post and reference!!!!

[omega1]

I personally don’t bother with the “5 positions”. I adjust the rate (or regulate as most call it) to my wearing habits.

My daily habits are fairly routine, so this is what I do:

I start with a fully wound watch and sync it to the atomic clock first thing in the morning. I wear it all day long, and even go to sleep with it on.

The next morning I check it against the atomic clock again and make regulation adjustments as needed, that is, if it gained 5 seconds while on my wrist, then I move the regulator back one tick mark. I continue to do this until I get +2 seconds per day.

Now here is the thing. If I take that same watch that is +2 on my wrist for 24 hours, and let it sit in the watch box dial up (or any other position for that matter) for 24 hours, it could gain or lose up to 15 to 20 seconds per day. I chalk this up to the several different things; most importantly being that the mainspring is winding down so power delivery can fluctuate, changing the accuracy. If on my wrist for 24 hours, it’s a safe bet that the movement stays in a full state of wind (with the exception of when I am sleeping).

So, I find that if you adjust the rate to get the watch to where you want the accuracy to be sitting on a desk, you will be surprised that when you wear it the accuracy will change.

Jim

[NRG]

...

Now here is the thing. If I take that same watch that is +2 on my wrist for 24 hours, and let it sit in the watch box dial up (or any other position for that matter) for 24 hours, it could gain or lose up to 15 to 20 seconds per day. I chalk this up to the several different things; most importantly being that the mainspring is winding down so power delivery can fluctuate, changing the accuracy. If on my wrist for 24 hours, it’s a safe bet that the movement stays in a full state of wind (with the exception of when I am sleeping).

So, I find that if you adjust the rate to get the watch to where you want the accuracy to be sitting on a desk, you will be surprised that when you wear it the accuracy will change.

Jim

The torque from the main spring should be fairly constant except at the extremes of the power reserve. If it does vary alot then it needs looking at. Given a healthy mainspring your observation of DU rate difference is again down to the state of regulation for the watch. By taking the watch off at night you can, to a limited degree, compansate for daily wear rate changes by finding an overnight static postion that opposes that daily rate change.