so where IS the hign end rep market?

[longshot]

i work in the controllers office of a large newspaper chain and one of my degrees is in economics so maybe i find this kind of thing more interesting than most. but looking at the new generation of high end reps has me thinking...

the new pam ferrari is $350. the easy diver just over $300. the big bangs over $400. and the dealers have offshores at $1000US. i'm guessing the chopard XL MM will be over $300.

it just does not make economic sense for these to be built unless they are built in the thousands, or more. does not matter if it's tennis balls or F-22 raptors, the more you build the cheaper the unit cost and the higher the potential profit.

we have been told repeatedly that the forums represent a tiny portion of the rep market. i believe that.

so exactly who IS buying the high end (and costly) reps and driving this market???

i just can't imagine the non WIS tourists at street stalls in china or bangkok or hong kong spending $300 on a chopard or an easy diver when he can buy an omega or rolex (brands that he has heard of!) for $100/$150 and impress his friends back home?

but someone is buying these in large enough numbers to justify the risk and the production costs

i just can't figure out who it is, and where...

anybody else thought about this and have any theories?

i would love to hear from neil and some others who have been there and been around longer!

[section8]

I think i've read here previously that a lot of them are sold in China actually. I remember someone mentioning that almost everyone there has a rep of a high end watch, so that the people wearing gens are in the minority.

[longshot]

I think i've read here previously that a lot of them are sold in China actually. I remember someone mentioning that almost everyone there has a rep of a high end watch, so that the people wearing gens are in the minority.

i had considered that and read the same thing long ago. but even if the prices are substantially lower in china, the last time in was in beijing (2004) i did not see very many people who looked like they could, or would spend, even $200US on a watch. a mechanical watch is really a luxury item after all

[Usil]

I have been wondering about this too. It seems like we are the ones driving for high end reps since we fight the battles for perfection and yet we are not the main market???? Something just does not make sense.

Usil

[Pugwash]

a mechanical watch is really a luxury item after all

Precisely. People in the urban areas of the far east like to display their apparent wealth. These are the people that buy gaudy gold watches and pay ridiculous import duty on a Mercedes while living in a tiny flat because the show of wealth is more important than being wealthy. Check out the number of Japanese magazines about high-end watches, for instance.

[Pugwash]

I have been wondering about this too. It seems like we are the ones driving for high end reps since we fight the battles for perfection and yet we are not the main market???? Something just does not make sense.

Every time you think you're getting a good deal, or something for free, you're not the customer; you're the product. We help the rep-makers get their watches more accurate, and they throw us a bone every now and then.

ps. Usil, your PMs are full.

[longshot]

Precisely. People in the urban areas of the far east like to display their apparent wealth. These are the people that buy gaudy gold watches and pay ridiculous import duty on a Mercedes while living in a tiny flat because the show of wealth is more important than being wealthy. Check out the number of Japanese magazines about high-end watches, for instance.

that would account for lot's of gold and bling datejust's and patek's etc. but not necessarily steel divers and sports watches?

i have often wondered if there is a huge underground rep market in japan though?

of course the japanese are just strange just look at all the giant fluffy sock anime schoolgirl porn

[Pugwash]

just look at all the giant fluffy sock anime schoolgirl porn

I do, often.

Er, I mean ... yeah, damned weird.

[who]

with the power of Internet....don't be surprises they can sell more than you ever imagine. Like someone said, our board only represent a small % of their sales volume, and also NOT everyone buy a rep is log on here. Where is the mkt? I think they are everywhere......from the dealer section here to Canal Street in NYC.....etc

Although the price of the rep is much cheaper in China, HK, Thailand......but one thing for sure is the quality may not be as consistent as we see here. Some of you may already heard......there's an unofficial rating system for almost any rep products......just like the Moody's rating on Financial industry. With the price they are asking.....I bet most of the stuff our dealers sell are grade A and above. There's many many grade B or C products but we will never see it here, may be you have better luck to find them in your local street corner. IMO, the western world is where the high-end mkt is, compare to most developing countries, we have more money, we are better educated, we are more desire to luxury stuff, we are the driving force for the high-end mkt.

So you think people in CN don't buy high-end rep? If you ask me, I think the majority of ppl there do not have the same knowledge (on watches) like us and they probably won't as picky as we are, at also they are much more hesitate to spend 250USD on a rep. To me, the high-end mkt is smaller in CN than here.

[longshot]

with the power of Internet....don't be surprises they can sell more than you ever imagine. Like someone said, our board only represent a small % of their sales volume, and also NOT everyone buy a rep is log on here. Where is the mkt? I think they are everywhere......from the dealer section here to Canal Street in NYC.....etc

Although the price of the rep is much cheaper in China, HK, Thailand......but one thing for sure is the quality may not be as consistent as we see here. Some of you may already heard......there's an unofficial rating system for almost any rep products......just like the Moody's rating on Financial industry. With the price they are asking.....I bet most of the stuff our dealers sell are grade A and above. There's many many grade B or C products but we will never see it here, may be you have better luck to find them in your local street corner. IMO, the western world is where the high-end mkt is, compare to most developing countries, we have more money, we are better educated, we are more desire to luxury stuff, we are the driving force for the high-end mkt.

So you think people in CN don't buy high-end rep? If you ask me, I think the majority of ppl there do not have the same knowledge (on watches) like us and they probably won't as picky as we are, at also they are much more hesitate to spend 250USD on a rep. To me, the high-end mkt is smaller in CN than here.

the grading system is a myth

that was settled on the various rep forums years ago. "chinese, japanese, swiss" or "A, B, C" or AAAAA++++++ are all just tools used by the scam sellers to sell a $200 rep sub for $800

if the high end market is in the west, where are they being sold? the scam sites do not have big bangs and ferrari pams and BCE's. there has been much discussion with the dealers when they still used to post a lot and none of them seem to be shipping even as much as a few dozen watches a week. thousands of the high end reps have to be being sold somewhere. but it's not on the rep boards and probably not by our dealers and not on the scam sites.

[who]

the rating system could be a myth....depends how you see it. I saw many mid/low-end rep during my trip in HK/CN, one of the local merchant even surprises when I asked for Swiss movement watch. Anyway, back then when I was in Shenzhen, CN. I did see higher price on some products with better quality and they even "hide" the so called "A" items in case raid by Police (that's what the merchant said)

Btw, I think many rep are shipped directly to the western world and they must have some sort of underground distribution system which let them goto the local merchants.

[robertk]

............but it may be that the internet (exclusive of these boards) is where the majority of high end reps sell worldwide. Remember that the typical run is now up to 1000 pieces (got that from one of our resident experts). Not that much when you consider Ioffer sites, etc.

[Pugwash]

Although the price of the rep is much cheaper in China, HK, Thailand......but one thing for sure is the quality may not be as consistent as we see here. Some of you may already heard......there's an unofficial rating system for almost any rep products......

Um, huh?

The quality in Thailand and China isn't as consistent as here? Where do our reps come from again? If you know where to go in Thailand and China, you'll get the best reps possible, because that's where our dealers get them. Sure, because the cheap crap is made there too, you'll get that by the bucket too.

The grading system is, as Longshot mentioned, a myth, just like Italian 31j Rolex replicas.

[pubus]

so where IS the high end rep market?

here?

but anyway I think that there has to be a diverce in reps. Imagine if only omegas, rolexes, panerais and a couple of iwc are top sellers and manufacturers would stop producing other ones. Dont you think that most ppl would quit dealing wheras they would not have a right to choose besides the choice would be obvious (rolex, pams and omegas)? I mean when I come to a clothes store I like to check many items while I wont to get a one particular. If there was only one item and everybody would be able to buy it would I too?

Consider most of us never though about others who buy >500usd reps. We just imagine that there are these ppl

[Pugwash]

Btw, I think many rep are shipped directly to the western world and they must have some sort of underground distribution system which let them goto the local merchants.

Underground Distribution? It's called EMS.

I'm with Longshot on this one. I want to know where the market is. I still believe the forums are a large part of business for the dealers, if through nothing but credibility.

[Rxus]

The market is big, or at least big enough to provide a form of living for some people, and somebody has to be purchasing these things and they need to move at a reasonable pace otherwise good bussiness can become bad bussiness rather quickly, regardless of that the market is global thanks to the internet I don't think any particular side of the planet is responsible, it's everyones market.

just look at this board wich only represents a small portion of the market, yet it's members count for soo many different parts of the world i actually think it's a great representation of "were the high end market IS" it's all of us requesting more quality more service easier safer purchasing options.

[crystalcranium]

I thought with over 100 pieces at last count, RT WAS the high end rep market!!!!!!

[garethsm]

There are a TON of reps advertised on ioffer.com, ranging from the high end to pure rubbish; but when you look at the feedback sections for the most prominent sellers on there, they seem to be shifting dozens every day.

Now, I would think even that site represents only a small area of the marketplace, as it is not particularly well known, so the actual volumes shifted worldwide must be huge...