PAM unitas movements with swan neck are all ASIAN?

[t]

i have bought last time a "called" swiss movement with dagger swan neck. My watchmaker has serviced and told me it is 100% asian.

We have discuss this things long time with vaccum and some other members and we thought that "dagger" swan neck version is asian and "needle" swan neck is swiss.

Now i received a "needle" swan neck with ETA stamp etc etc etc. I thought swiss. But i can

[Lyndonville]

Swiss movement:

[sssurfer]

As far as I know yes, the PAM swan neck regulator is a mod performed by OP, it does not come with native ETA movements.

Therefore, all swan neck movements we can see on reps should actually be repped movements and come from Asian factories.

[t]

As far as I know yes, the PAM swan neck regulator is a mod performed by OP, it does not come with native ETA movements.

Therefore, all swan neck movements we can see on reps should actually be repped movements and come from Asian factories.

and why all dealers call them "swiss Unitas" and we pay more money for this?

[sssurfer]

and why all dealers call them "swiss Unitas"

That is a question one should ask the dealers directly, I have no answer to it.

and we pay more money for this?

Here I may guess two answers, they do not exclude each other:

1. The swan neck add-on requires added work by the manufacturer and we pay for that.

2. Because of the offer/demand law.

[Watchmeister]

Very sorry to hear that the non-daggers are now Asian as well. It does make you treasure the older swiss needle movements. I know mine are because they have all been serviced. But I haven't bought a new one in a couple of years. It appears that ETA's are quickly becoming a thing of the past unless you have a $1,000 for a Swiss 7750 movement. The volume of "super reps" is increasing. The volume of ETA movements is decreasing. You figure it out.

[PAMman]

Surely the only 6497 movements which are 100% Swiss are the those with the original shaped plates and no Swan Neck regulator. They are available in at least 2 grades / finishes - one which is plain and was used in early Panerai reps with foil RAIPANERAIPANE cover plates (036, 005, 111, the first 127s etc), and a CDG finished movement with blued screws and sunburst gear wheels. There are at least two versions of the CDG finished movements - one has a broad stripe at 45 degrees to the winding stem (the same as the genuine Panerai preA movements) and another with narrower stripes at 90 degrees to the stem (the same as the genuine Panerai preV movements). Possibly the narrower stripe was simply an earlier pattern as the broader stripe is the current decorated offering. This theory would tie in with the earlier and later Panerai models and would explain why I cannot get one of the narrower CDG movements although I have seen them in various display back watches that crop up on Ebay from time to time.

All the Swan Neck movements have Panerai shaped bridges and these are not available from Swiss ETA, therefore they must be at least partly Asian. I expect that the first of these was Swiss modified but over time (and due to cost) it would make more sense to replicate the whole movement in China / TW or wherever.

[babola]

Just as Ssurfer and Pamman said...

Also, Tourby - you simply got unlucky with your PAM reps with E-series mov'ts.

The one on the left shows the now so 'popular' (or shall I say unpopular) E-series Hybrid Asia/Swiss movement, that some forumers refer to as 'swasian' or 'chiniss'...although constructed of mainly non-interchangeable Asian parts, it does come with old-style ETA mainplate. Good movement ? For sure...but definitely noth the one we should call Swiss ETA.

The pic on the right shows the Asian ETA 6497-2 (higher beat 21,600bph) mov't. I know the movement very well because I have one as a spare. It comes with shorter hairspring, and no ETA markings on the mainplate.

As I said, you just got unlucky...some of us managed to source reps with good Swiss ETA E-series mov'ts with Panerai engraved bridges, S/N regulator - but without dagger needle, the needle is pointy, just as the one that comes on gen standard Swiss ETA 6497-1. The movement refer to in particular is the one Eddie Lee first came on the market 5-6 months ago in his 'ultimate' Fiddy, as well as Davidsen in his Fiddy as well. The Asian factory producing the E-series bridges and S/N add-ons for this movement stop the production 2 months ago, however according to Davidsen, they have just released them on the market this week. The first ones will be available in Davidsen's Fiddys...so keep your eyes peeled

I think I (personally) have beaten this horse to death, and then some...I should stop now, as I'm sure getting on some forumers nerves with repeating the same story about E-series mov'ts again and again...

cheers,

babola

EDIT: Just had another look at the mov't on the right, this one could well be the first Swiss ETA E-series mov't released around early 2006, and started to appear in those first Fiddy's with Swiss ETA E-series movements. I had it in my first Fiddy that I bought from Joshua in Feb 2006 - definitelly Swiss ETA base movement, although with a lot of Asian add-ons like engraved bridges, beveled gears, S/N reg, balance wheel etc. It also had proper gen ETA markings and symbol, and if your watchmaker is saying this is not Swiss ETA he's only 25% right, IMO

BBB (Brad) is still one of the forumers that has the very same Fiddy this particular movement comes with. I sold mine since.

Edited July 5, 2007 by babola