Improved PAM 090-124-171-222 datewheels

[sssurfer]

As you know, the date magnification of the 090 is quite good, the problem being essentially the date font.

Lello is currently considering to reprint 090 datewheels with the correct panerai font.

Everyone should have his watch disassembled locally, then send Lello the datewheel only.

(This is because Lello and I have been unable to find which kind of available datewheel, if any, may be interchangeable with the 090's one -- should anyone have any hints about it, always welcome).

Anyone interested in this opportunity please show your interest here.

(Members in different forums please post once only)

[Watchmeister]

Assuming it is appropriate for the 222 (and I am 99% sure it is the same movement) I am in for 2. This will take quite a while for us to ship watches to watchsmiths to get the date wheel pulled though. Basically I would require 3-4 weeks notice if you go this route. I assume Lello has all the ETA datewheels from his past projects and so he has checked in the off-chance that one actually fits. I would doubt it though,

[lanikai]

As you know, the date magnification of the 090 is quite good, the problem being essentially the date font.

Lello is currently considering to reprint 090 datewheels with the correct panerai font.

One should have his watch disassembled locally, then send Lello the datewheel only.

(This is because Lello and I have been unable to find which kind of available datewheel, if any, may be interchangeable with the 090's one -- should anyone have any hints about it, always welcome).

Anyone interested in this opportunity please show your interest here.

(Members in different forums please post once only)

Are you serious .... this is one of my favorite PAMS... i only dreamed of looking at a proper DW ... so sssurfer i without a doubt will be "DOWN" for 3 or 4 ... since you are talking about the Asian 21 J movement? maybe more

and are you saying that you need "1" date wheel from a movement as a smaple to get the right one .. or will everyone have to send in their DW's with their order?

This part I need clarified please ...

Thank you

LANIKAI..... drooling in anticipation

[archibald]

Everyone should also keep in mind that removing the DW from this watch is no easy matter--the movement has 2 front plates, with the power reserve gears "floating" between them. To get at the DW you have to get at it from the back, requiring almost complete dissasembly of the movement, I believe. The second plate also has an additional cyclops glued in place which should be removed or the correct fonts will appear too bold.

[sssurfer]

@kruzer:

Yes, I forgot to mention that that movement is the same one that is supposed to engine all the 44mm PR rep models with PR gauge @5: 090, 124, (171), 222. Thanks for pointing it out!

In any case, everyone is recommended to check what movement is in his watch. It should look like this:

3-4 weeks should be no problem.

Lello already checked out with his previous datewheel, and unfortunately they all were no fit.

@lanikai:

Thanks you too for pointing out that passage where I have been unclear. It was because of my poor English. Now I hope I fixed it.

Unfortunately, the movement in the 090 is all but an Asian 21J. It is a sophisticate and good quality Asian 35J that is supposed to be the Seagull TY-2530 (formerly ST-2530).

Actually, "Asian 21J" is a take-all name including some different models, most often a copy of the Miyota 8215.

Lello and I are currently talking about making improved datewheels for that movement too, but we are doubtful as it is a movement especially mounted on inexpensive reps, so we wonder whether anyone who paid 120-150$ for a watch would be willing to spend 50 more dollars for the sake of providing it with a new datewheel.

@archibald:

Thanks for the advice!

Just one thing: I don't feel it will surely be necessary to remove the small lens. I mounted the improved Finepics' datewheel on my 028 without removing it, and the font looks good.

I could be wrong, naturally.

[lanikai]

@kruzer:

Yes, I forgot to mention that that movement is the same one that is supposed to engine all the 44mm PR rep models with PR gauge @5: 090, 124, (171), 222. Thanks for pointing it out!

In any case, everyone is recommended to check what movement is in his watch. It should look like this:

3-4 weeks should be no problem.

Lello already checked out with his previous datewheel, and unfortunately they all were no fit.

@lanikai:

Thanks you too for pointing out that passage where I have been unclear. It was because of my poor English. Now I hope I fixed it.

Unfortunately, the movement in the 090 is all but an Asian 21J. It is a sophisticate and good quality Asian 35J that is supposed to be the Seagull TY-2530 (formerly ST-2530).

Actually, "Asian 21J" is a take-all name including some different models, most often a copy of the Miyota 8215.

Lello and I are currently talking about making improved datewheels for that movement too, but we are doubtful as it is a movement especially mounted on inexpensive reps, so we wonder whether anyone who paid 120-150$ for a watch would be willing to spend 50 more dollars for the sake of providing it with a new datewheel.

@archibald:

Thanks for the advice!

Just one thing: I don't feel it will surely be necessary to remove the small lens. I mounted the improved Finepics' datewheel on my 028 without removing it, and the font looks good.

I could be wrong, naturally.

Sssurfer..... it si not poor english because I cannot speak anyother language so you are far ahesd of me on that score ... but the 21J Asian is the only movement availble for the 090 and 222 .... from Joshua and Andrew .. if I know where to obtain the other I would ... any leads??? and yes I would spend an additional 50 usd for the proper wheel the only reason I have the lesser movement is because that is all that's available ...

[lanikai]

Sssurfer..... it si not poor english because I cannot speak anyother language so you are far ahesd of me on that score ... but the 21J Asian is the only movement availble for the 090 and 222 .... from Joshua and Andrew .. if I know where to obtain the other I would ... any leads??? and yes I would spend an additional 50 usd for the proper wheel the only reason I have the lesser movement is because that is all that's available ...

Let me amend that sssurfer .... i never want to spend top dollar on a movement with a date wheel unless the date wheel is available first .. in this case after checking,... the movement you are reffering to is no longer available .. so if you have any leads for me I would appreciate it.

Thank you ....Lanikai

[sssurfer]

lanikai,

I've spent days on researching what movement is the 090's and I may assure you it is not 'the' Asian 21J (Miyota copy).

I removed from their cases several Asian 21J and my 090's movement (Lello did the same), and I could verify it with my own eyes.

When the dealers say it is Asian 21J, they are simply wrong. Not even a little white lie, as the 090 movement is much better than the Asian 21J. Maybe they just don't want to make customers confused with different types of Asian auto movements.

The movement that you have in your 090 is almost surely that 35J, that is likely to be the Seagull ST-2530.

Please have a look here, here, and try googleing for "ST 2530", "TY 2530", "seagull 2530", and so.

If your 090 has a display back, you can also check whether the back of your movement is resembling that in my picture.

BTW, just today I received a 124, and it has that same movement -- as expected.

That movement is the ubiquitary one of the 44mm PR PAMs with the PR gauge @5 o'clock.

Contrarily from those with the PR gauge @6 o'clock, i.e. the 027 and 028. These come with either the 'true' Asian 21J, or the ETA 2892-A2 (I have two Asian 21J 027s, and one ETA 028, and I opened all them).

[sssurfer]

I was forgetting the most important: here.

[lanikai]

lanikai,

I've spent days on researching what movement is the 090's and I may assure you it is not 'the' Asian 21J (Miyota copy).

I removed from their cases several Asian 21J and my 090's movement (Lello did the same), and I could verify it with my own eyes.

When the dealers say it is Asian 21J, they are simply wrong. Not even a little white lie, as the 090 movement is much better than the Asian 21J. Maybe they just don't want to make customers confused with different types of Asian auto movements.

The movement that you have in your 090 is almost surely that 35J, that is likely to be the Seagull ST-2530.

Please have a look here, here, and try googleing for "ST 2530", "TY 2530", "seagull 2530", and so.

If your 090 has a display back, you can also check whether the back of your movement is resembling that in my picture.

BTW, just today I received a 124, and it has that same movement -- as expected.

That movement is the ubiquitary one of the 44mm PR PAMs with the PR gauge @5 o'clock.

Contrarily from those with the PR gauge @6 o'clock, i.e. the 027 and 028. These come with either the 'true' Asian 21J, or the ETA 2892-A2 (I have two Asian 21J 027s, and one ETA 028, and I opened all them).

sssurfer .... you know vastly more than I about movements ..... and you may have answered something that has been on my mind with the 090 ... you know how the asian movement when winding feels.. "hollow" and the gears feel really cheap and dry ? the 090 movement feels like that of the higher quality movements... I may be totally wrong .. but I thought maybe they sent me the wrong watch ... (movement wise), I paid 188 usd for the 090.. and you are probably correct ... as far as it not being a A 21 J..... I have alway's thought that if a dealer were not reputable and I believe mine to be .... what is to stop them from getting over on people with no knowledge of these movements ... although the Asian 21 J is the lower end ...

My 090 does not have a display back ... solid back .. i got it from Andrew ... and all these watches come from the same maker to the 4 top dealers ... Joshua, Andrew, King and Angus..

No sense in asking the dealers ... I don't want to open a can of worms ... you and the rest of the experts will have to let us know what you hypotesis ... I have to leave the ball in your court ... I was going to order the 124 myself if this can come to fruition..

[lanikai]

I was forgetting the most important: here.

sssurfer .... i checked the dealers site again ... the only thing close is the 2892-2movement, it goes for 588 usd on andrews site th PR is at the 6 the rest claim to be the A21 J..

[sssurfer]

lanikai,

yes I confirm that the models with PR at 6 (027 and 028) come either with the Asian 21J or the ETA 2892-A2. Obviously the Asian 21J is in the cheaper models (80-120 USD), while the ETA is in the high-end models (580-650 USD).

But the models with PR at 5 (090, 124 and 222, the 171 not being repped as far as I know) come with that other movement that we are talking about, that is way better than the Asian 21J, and that should be the Seagull TY-2530.

I repeat that when the dealers say 'Asian 21J' they are just meaning 'some kind of Asian auto movement that we cannot qualify as a high-end copy of an ETA movement'. This includes chinese and japanese copies of the Miyota 8215 (90%), several other different Seagull movements (5%), and some others (5%).

That is not a mala fide lie, as it would be in their interest to let the customers know that some models have better movements than the Miyota copy. But they just don't care, or don't know, or don't want to make the thing complicated, or what.

On the contrary, there actually are sellers of genuine watches with the TY-2530 inside that look quite delighted by specifying the movement. Please have a look at this ebay post (pointed out by omega1) before it goes away. Compare the positions of the hands and PR gauge with your 090. The seller proudly specifies: '-- Movement -- Automatic TY-2530 movement w/ 35 jewels'.

Those considerations are exactly the ones that made Lello (and me) willing to improve the datewheel on the 090 and similar models. We feel that that movement is so good that it is worth the improvement.

If you feel bold enough to remove the caseback from a couple of your watches, open your 090 and another of your supposed Asian 21J watches. You will easily see that they are different movements. Granted.

[sssurfer]

Thanks to everyone who expressed their interest. Notice taken.