Movement preview - 7750, running seconds at "12"

[Chronus]

After seeing The Zigmeister's wonderful review of the modified Asian 7750 copy movement with seconds moved to the 3 o'clock position, some were querying whether this could be done for a "seconds at 12 o'clock" movement, such as those used in the AP Offshore's (AP ROO).

There are a few differences between this and the seconds at 3 or 6, whereby instead of moving one subdial to an "empty" position such as the 3 o'clock, we are now having a crossover of subdials.

To do this is a little more complex,

1. the subdial at the 12 o'clock position will have to be moved elsewhere, let's say to the empty 3 o'clock position (or anywhere that is more mechanically efficient). (It is better to have less gearing on a more wearing part of the movement, such as running seconds at 9, which is why I think this one is moved).

2. the running seconds subdial at 9 will now have to be moved to the 12 o'clock position.

3. the subdial originally at 12, but now at 3 will now have to be moved to the 9 o'clcock position.

I don't know how many other watches and brands use this movement apart from AP chronos, so it may not be viable for makers to produce such a movement.

There are other "problems" with producing the AP Offshore.

-The plane of the pushers and crown is different from standard. This would have to be corrected by the case makers, but I think can be done with this movement, just use "internal" pushers that slightly incline to create the correct effect;

-The thickness of the movement: will it be too thick for the AP ROO or AP RO Chrono?

-subdial placement on the genuine seconds at 12 has the running seconds at a slightly different position to the standard, thus limiting the re-usability in other brands. This means the movement makers may not bother with this modification for the AP if they don't believe it will be a big seller;

-getting a genuine dial or the dial makers fabricating a new, more correct dial.

The AP ROO could just be made without fixing the dial and the pusher placement and I'm sure most would be happy with that (and existing owners of the MBW who could do a movement swap).

Can anyone list which other watches use this movement configuration?

And any other ideas on how to achieve this result?

Edited September 5, 2007 by Chronus

[Chronus]

Any suggestions?

Any interest at all?

[ahchard]

I am no expert, but wouldn't the AP ROO secs at 12 actually be similar to moving the secs to 6 for the daytona?

In the daytona they swap the positions of the 9 and 6 subdial, and move the 12 subdial to 3?

So for the ROO they can swap the 9 and 12 around?

I do not understand the main mechanics behind moving the subdials around so I may sound a bit naive... is it much more complicated than this?

[MADRED7]

...interesting read of course.

Ordering my 4th MBW AP ROO I was asked by the seller: "....why do you buy 4 of the same watches only with different dials? What will you do when the new movement with seconds at 12 is out?"......I just replied that I don

[Chronus]

I am no expert, but wouldn't the AP ROO secs at 12 actually be similar to moving the secs to 6 for the daytona?

In the daytona they swap the positions of the 9 and 6 subdial, and move the 12 subdial to 3?

So for the ROO they can swap the 9 and 12 around?

I do not understand the main mechanics behind moving the subdials around so I may sound a bit naive... is it much more complicated than this?

That's a good question and response. You could well be right here.

[archibald]

Do we have confirmation that someone is actually working on this? My amateur guess is that they'll us the same cannon-pin-sticking-through transfer-gears stsyem that they did on the secs @ 6 movement. My other guess is that the seconds will be choppy and the movement plaqued by similar problems as the other transferred secs. movements.

I bet they will not bother with The asymetric pusherswhich will be a fatal flaw for many potential buyers.

I think the ROO is so thick anyway, that the extra thickness of the 7750 won't be a problem if it even is thicker than the JLC + DD module.

When I blow out my candles, I wish the chinese would quit wasting their engineering skills screwing up 7750's and just design a new movement that has that either has running seconds at 6 (which can be used in a lot of watches, including big-sellers like the daytona and Royal Oak Chrono) or a movement that copies the subdial placement of the el primero which would open another whole world of reps.

The ROO is a nice watch, but IMO not nice enough to risk yet another modified (probably asian for me) 7750.

[Chronus]

...interesting read of course.

Ordering my 4th MBW AP ROO I was asked by the seller: "....why do you buy 4 of the same watches only with different dials? What will you do when the new movement with seconds at 12 is out?"......I just replied that I don

[CY0811]

I would have paid a decent amount for the ROO with seconds at 12....and would rather have it fragile and not use the chronos too much then dependable and be completely inaccurate. Here in LA I actually see these bad boys now and then....and I need those seconds at 12!!!! Thats just me though.

[Chronus]

Do we have confirmation that someone is actually working on this? My amateur guess is that they'll us the same cannon-pin-sticking-through transfer-gears stsyem that they did on the secs @ 6 movement. My other guess is that the seconds will be choppy and the movement plaqued by similar problems as the other transferred secs. movements.

I bet they will not bother with The asymetric pusherswhich will be a fatal flaw for many potential buyers.

I think the ROO is so thick anyway, that the extra thickness of the 7750 won't be a problem if it even is thicker than the JLC + DD module.

When I blow out my candles, I wish the chinese would quit wasting their engineering skills screwing up 7750's and just design a new movement that has that either has running seconds at 6 (which can be used in a lot of watches, including big-sellers like the daytona and Royal Oak Chrono) or a movement that copies the subdial placement of the el primero which would open another whole world of reps.

The ROO is a nice watch, but IMO not nice enough to risk yet another modified (probably asian for me) 7750.

No confirmation that this is being created. Just general discussion sparked by The Zigmeister's "seconds at 3" review.

If this movement isn't made, it only leaves the MBW version with ETA 2892 and DD chrono module, genuine dial and hands which all costs over 2000 Euros! It's a much better solution than the modified Asian 7750 copy movement, and with asymmetric pushers like the genuine, is as close as you are likely to get from a rep.

I think at these prices though, many will rather save up for a used genuine.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Chronus