offshore Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Thought I would add these- from Max-(Neos) original thread- for posterity!! Lets get'em into the archives! LEGAL : a watch from Switzerland, a Swiss watch Ordinance governing the use of the appellation "Switzerland" or "Swiss" for watches. (Of December 23, 1971) (Status as of July 1st. 1995) The Swiss Federal Council considering Article 50 of the Federal Act of August 28, 1992 concerning the protection of trade marks decrees : Art. 1 : Definition of the watch An appliance for the measurement of time is considered to be a watch if its movement is not more than 50 millimeters in breadth, length or diameter or if its thickness, measured with the main plate and the bridges, does not exceed 12 millimeters. For the breadth, length or diameter, only such dimensions as are technically necessary are taken into consideration. Art. 1a : Definition of the Swiss watch A watch is considered to be Swiss if : a. its movement is Swiss; b. its movement is cased up in Switzerland and c. the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland. Art. 2 : Definition of the Swiss watch movement A movement is considered to be Swiss if : a. it has been assembled in Switzerland; b. it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland and c. the components of Swiss manufacture make up for at least 50 percent of the value, without considering the cost for assembly. For the calculation of the value of the component parts of Swiss manufacture according to 3. c. above, the following rules are applicable : a. The cost of the dial and hands is taken into consideration only when they are fitted in Switzerland; b. The cost of assembly may be taken into consideration when a certification procedure provided for by an international treaty guarantees that, owing to close industrial cooperation, the foreign and the Swiss component parts are of equivalent quality. Art. 3 : Conditions of using the name "Swiss" The name "Switzerland", indications such as "Swiss, "Swiss product", "manufactured in Switzerland", "Swiss quality" or other appellations which contain the name "Swiss" or "Switzerland" or which may be confused therewith may be used solely for Swiss watches or watch movements. If the watch is not Swiss, the indications appearing in the 15th paragraph may nevertheless be applied to Swiss movements, provided they are not visible to the watch purchaser. The indication "Swiss movement" may be applied to watches which contain a Swiss movement. The word "movement" must appear written out in full in the same type face, dimension and colour as the appellation "Swiss". The 1st and 3rd paragraphs above are also applicable, when these appellations are used in translation (in particular "Swiss", "Swiss made", "Swiss movement") with the true indication of origin of the watch or with the addition of words such as "style", "type", "form" or other word combinations. Are further considered as use, beside applying these indications on watches or their packing : a. the sale, offering for sale or putting into circulation of watches bearing such an indication; b. the application thereof to signs, advertisements, prospectuses, invoices, letters or commercial papers. Art. 4 : Marking indications of origin on watch cases A watch case is considered to be Swiss if it has undergone in Switzerland at least one essential manufacturing operation (to wit stamping, turning or polishing), if it has been assembled and tested in Switzerland and if at least 50 per cent of the cost of manufacture (excluding the value of the material) is accounted for by operations carried out in Switzerland. The appellations mentioned in Article 3, 1st and 4th paragraphs may be applied only to watch cases which are intended for watches in the sense of Article 1 a. The indication "Swiss case" or its translation may be applied to Swiss watch cases, which are not intended for Swiss watches in the sense of article 1a. When such an indication is applied to the exterior of the case, the indication of origin of the watch or of the movement must be conspicuously indicated on the watch. Art. 5 : Marking indications of origin on watch dials The appellations mentioned in Article 3, 1st and 4th paragraphs may be applied only to dials which are intended for watches in the sense of Article 1 a. The indication "Swiss dial" or its translation may be applied to the back of Swiss dials, which are not intended for Swiss watches in the sense of Article 1 a. Art. 6 : Marking indications of origin on other components of watches The appellations mentioned in Article 3, 1st and 4th paragraphs may be applied only to components which are intended for watches in the sense of Article 1 a. Exported Swiss ebauches (movement blanks) as well as movements produced with such ebauches may however bear the indication "Swiss parts". Art. 7 : Samples and collection thereof Notwithstanding Article 3, 2nd para. and Articles 4 to 6, watch cases, dials, movements and other components may bear Swiss indications of origin when they are : a. exported separately in the form of samples or collections thereof; b. manufactured in Switzerland and c. not intended for sale. Art. 8 : Penal provisions Infringements of the prescriptions of this Ordinance come within the penal provisions of the Act concerning the protection of trade marks. Art. 9 : Coming into force - The present ordinance shall come into force on January 1, 1972. - Final provision of the modification of May 27, 1992. - Enterprises which, at the date of coming into force of the present amendment, have already lawfully and durably made use of one of the protected appellations whithin the meaning of Article 3, 1 st and 4th paragraphs, shall be entitled to continue such use during a period of five years following the coming into force of the present amendment, even if the casing-up and final checking by the manufacturer take place abroad. Gray Market Watches Even reputable new watch dealers may be selling 'unauthorized' watches--know the risks and problems you may face after buying - What are 'gray market' watches? - How can I tell if a watch is gray market? - What does it mean to me if I buy a gray market watch? - What does it mean if the seller removes the serial number? What are 'gray market' watches? There are many places where you can buy fine watches. The most important concept to understand before making a purchase decision is the difference between gray-market versus authorized dealers and how that affects the price, warranty coverage, and resale of a watch you purchase. All genuine Omega, Rolex and other fine watches come from the maker's factory. The maker only sells them to authorized dealers and distributors. To establish and maintain an authorized dealer relationship and volume discounts, authorized dealers must make large initial investments in inventory and continue to purchase minimum quantities of watches over time. This can involve minimum initial and ongoing inventory purchase requirements as high as US$ 250,000 for a single dealer to carry each major brand. For smaller dealers, this often forces them to purchase more watches than they can sell directly to their customers and to hold in inventory an excessive amount of merchandise of a single brand. So some authorized dealers sell off at wholesale prices the surplus to the 'gray market' of unauthorized dealers--who then sell the watches at heavier discounts than authorized dealers are allowed to. This is not explicitly illegal, but it usually violates the authorized dealer or resellers agreements with the manufacturer. The manufacturers, to protect their authorized dealers from the heavier discount offered to the consumer by the non-authorized dealers, refuse to provide in-warranty service on these watches. Unfortunately, this policy usually ends up hurting the uninformed consumer more than it protects the authorized dealers. The reason this policy is an ineffective deterrent is that the customer needs to know this before they buy the watch. But only a small percentage of buyers know this before a purchase. Many do not discover this until after they have a problem and are refused in-warranty service by the manufacturer or an authorized repair center. At that point, the customer sees the manufacturer as the bad guy for refusing to honor a warranty on a watch the customer feels they bought legitimately. How can I tell if a watch is gray market? Gray market watches are genuine watches from the original manufacturer. They are not fakes or factory seconds. The only thing that makes them different is that they passed through an unauthorized dealer or reseller on the way to you. (Though occasionally, some less ethical gray market dealer may also sell old stock, returns, or refurbished watches as if they were 'new' merchandise.) Here are probable signs of a gray market watch: - Is the dealer's published price more than 20% off the manufacturer's listed retail price? - Is the manufacturer's warranty card missing or not stamped with an authorized dealer stamp? - Is the serial number missing off the watch? What does it mean to me if I buy a gray market watch? Gray market fine watches are typically available at discounts of 30-40%, compared to the maximum 20% discount the authorized dealers are usually contractually allowed to give you. Note that there are legitimate cases where an authorized dealer may give you more than 20% off current list price on a fine watch. When a dealer has stock they acquired before a manufacturer's price increase, when the watch is a returned or clearance item, or when they bend the rules when really desperate for end-of-month sales (particularly if they have a very large amount of returns after Christmas). While some gray market dealers are very honest and forthright about what they are selling to you, others may not mention that their merchandise is gray market or make it clear that you do not have a manufacturer's warranty on the watch. Your manufacturer's warranty card will not be stamped with an authorized dealer's name--or you may get no card at all. In either case, you have no valid manufacturer's warranty coverage. Watches described as having 'open papers' means the warranty has not been validated by an authorized dealer. If the dealer includes a warranty of their own, it will only be good through them--it will not be honored by any other dealer or the manufacturer's authorized service centers. For this you must trust the reputation and stability of that dealer to repair your watch within the warranty period. Otherwise, any repair will be at your expense. Some gray market watches have had the serial number removed from the outside of the case (but not the inside) to prevent the manufacturer from tracing it to the authorized dealer that sold it to the gray market. See the following section for more information on watches that have had their serial numbers removed. Ultimately, the difference is whether you are willing to risk warranty, resale, and other problems in return for saving another 10-20% off the cost of the watch. What does it mean if the seller removes the serial number? Having a watch with its serial number removed has several important implications: Although not often enforced, many states and countries have laws making it illegal to possess an item that has had its serial number removed. Such laws treat watches with altered or removed serial numbers as the equivalent of stolen property. The manufacturer's authorized repair centers may refuse to service the watch even outside the warranty period. Even worse, some manufacturers have been known to confiscate such watches that have been sent to them for service. Lack of a serial number may interfere in getting an insurance claim paid if your watch is lost or stolen. It may interfere with your ability to resell the watch or may reduce what someone is willing to pay for it. Some manufacturers can supply you with detailed information on your watch--such as its date of manufacture, country it was shipped to for original sale, features and movement calibre, and even a copy of the COSC certificate for your watch--but only if you have your serial number. Yet, a number of unauthorized watch sellers have a common practice of removing serial numbers from watches they sell to protect their supplier who have violated their contracts with he manufacturers by reselling merchandise to unauthorized resellers. So who protects you, the watch buyer? The answer is that you have to apply the primary buyers rule of 'caveat emptor' - buyer beware. If you are unsure about the status of a place you are considering buying a watch, ask them specifically if they are an authorized dealer for the specific brand of watch you are buying. If not, you may want to consider shopping elsewhere. For more detail on protecting yourself when buying watches--expecially Omega--see the Chronocentric article Omega Consumer Alert: New watch dealers with questionable policies. If you have already purchased a watch and discover that it has had its serial number removed, you should immediately contact the seller and insist they refund your full purchase price or provide a replacement watch with its serial number intact. The most alarming part of the way these laws are written is that, once you become aware that the serial number has been removed, you effectively become an accomplice to the crime! Here is an example of such laws from the State of Georgia, in The United States: A person commits the offense of criminal use of an article with an altered identification mark when he buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a ... watch, watch movement, watch case ... from which he knows the manufacturer's name plate, serial number, or any other distinguishing number or identification mark has been removed for the purpose of concealing or destroying the identity of such article. A person convicted of the offense of criminal use of an article with an altered identification mark shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years. Is a replica right for me? by the WatchMan If your considering buying a replica watch for the first time, you have many questions, and many emotions. Questions that are simple to answer like… Is it well made, does it keep time, what is the guarantee, am I getting ripped off. But the really big question that is in your mind right now is … “WILL I FEEL LIKE A FOOL WEARING A FAKE WATCH?” I know, I’ve been there, and believe it or not, these are things to consider. First of all, you most likely have never had anything actually on your wrist that ended in “ex” and that did not begin with “Tim”, but you would like to. You know you REALLY want to place that order for the two tone Submariner with the blue dial or the all gold Daytona, but what you are afraid of is, what are your friends going to think. The truth is, that is a valid question, and one you must answer. So let’s take a look at just who you are and how a replica watch is going to affect you. The first question you must ask yourself is “will I look out of place wearing this watch?” Although, the answer is always NO, just how comfortable you will be is dependent on how you relate to your surroundings. Often the first thing you must look at is where do you live? If you are in a city, literally any city, that is a good thing. If the population of your town is 60 and there is one jewelry shop you may be in worse shape. But determining this is easy, start looking at other people’s wrists and see how many are wearing expensive timepieces and just who are they. When I began doing it, I realized that it was not unusual that 3 out of 10 were wearing Rolex’s and they were from all walks of life. That meant that wearing a Submariner or a DateJust was not going to seem odd at all.. Next, ask yourself this… if I owned a real Rolex would I wear it to work? To play? All the time? If your answer is yes to all of these, then by all means, order away. If your answer to any of them is yes, then you will find that wearing a replica will be fine also. If you said NO to all of them, then you may want to think hard. Will people make fun of me if they find out? Answer … go back to our first step where you were watching wrists closely. Remember how many people were wearing expensive watches? How many were Replicas? That’s right, you have no idea… why, because no one can tell, and THAT IS THE TRUTH! In the years that I have been wearing Replica’s I have only ever had someone say to me “Is that a real Rolex” , on two occasions, and believe me after you’ve been through this once, you will actually wish it happened more because the answer to give is … NO, it is a replica and let them look at it closely. Their reaction will usually be … WOW, that’s amazing, where can I get one? Yes, I will tell you the first few days you put it on and go out you will feel like EVERYONE IS LOOKING AT YOUR WATCH! They are not, unless you either live in a town where NO ONE has ever worn a Rolex, you are considered just about homeless in which case they wonder who you robbed (this can be a problem), or you made the error of ordering a replica with enough diamonds to blind the person next to you and they are really staring at your watch trying to decide if THEY SHOULD ROB YOU! This self-conciseness goes away after a few days. That’s really true because today it is nearly impossible to buy a FAKE watch. You know like the guy who opens his coat and says , psssst…” wanna buy a Roley? It’s sorta like a Rolex.” Today dealers supply actual REPLICA’S identical in nearly every detail to the original. Big portions of the buyers are owners of the authentic item, because, hey, if you pay $10,000 for a watch do you really want to mess it up in everyday wear. No, today, you put it in the winder in the safe and wear and exact copy because … no one will ever know. For you just pretend you lost the combination and the location of the safe! Ok, so you probably could comfortably wear a replica, but what does it DO FOR ME? Well, many just want it as an item to attract the opposite sex, which it does. However, when you see a person wearing a lot of diamonds for example, you automatically think, “those are fake”. But when you see a person wearing a nice Rolex you automatically think .. “Nice Watch”. So if your purpose is to look like the big time on the town with some real bling, then you are in the right place. But what about professionally? Let me tell you, I have spent my life making professional presentations and from day one every mentor I have ever had stressed three things… One... buy the most expensive suit you can afford. It is much better to own one $600 dollar suit than six $100 suits if you are trying sell anything, and in business we are all trying to sell something. Two… shine your shoes. And three, wear NO jewelry except a wedding band (if you are married) , a college ring (especially if from post graduate level or a fraternity) and wear a GOOD watch! Does it work? I can tell you from experience that it works wonders! I would never go on a sales call today without a Rolex Replica (or I occasionally wear my Omega Seamaster Replica) on my wrist. WHY? That answer is simple. Clients think, if he makes enough commission to be wearing a Rolex he must make a lot of sales, which means he must have a good product. Don’t believe me? Go sit in your Doctors waiting room and wait for the Pharmaceutical Reps to show up. If you are in a male doctor’s office, the rep will be gorgeous, usually blond and dressed in a $600 dark wool business suit. If it is a female doctors office the Rep will be strikingly handsome, and generally wearing a subtle pinstriped Armani. Four our of five of either sex will be wearing a Rolex. Pharmaceutical companies have known the power for years, and do you of many companies that make more money? If you ARE a pharmaceutical rep and not wearing one, THEN ORDER NOW!!! The other benefit is confidence. Trust me, once you get past that sort of shy period, there is nothing to give you more confidence in presenting yourself than to be well dressed and sporting a sharp watch. 10 years ago I worked for $4.15/hr on the counter of retail store. I myself am short, fat and not exactly handsome… but I have a good tailor and a good Replica dealer. I buy “overstock” designer suits for $100 bucks and pay my tailor another 40-50 to make them fit me like custom and I generally wear a two-tone, blue face Japanese submariner Replica (though right now I am desiring a Swiss 50th anniversary sub). I am President of three of my own companies, I speak with confidence in public and do I attribute it to replica watches, no. I attribute it to confidence, and I attribute a lot of that to my replicas. How much? Here’s the facts. I am a collector, so I have quite a few. I’ve fallen in love with watches and know a lot about both the authentic and the replicas and I can only say this… I can afford the authentic if I desire, but I don’t. I think that the art of making a really good replica is much more difficult than making the original… try it. Ask you friend sign his name … he has no trouble at all. NOW MAKE AN EXACT REPLICA OF IT! That is a real problem. There was a time when “fake” watches were a scourge on society but today’s Replicas are works of art. The authentic manufacturers will claim they want to stop the flow of the product, but in reality Rolex sells a huge amount of authentic product to people that have first purchased a Replica and “worked their way up” to having to have the real thing. You must find good dealers who stand behind their product, but that is why you are here. In parting I will tell you that I am in no way associated with the site on which you are reading this post. I also have in no way been compensated to write this. I did it as a labor of love and gave it to some people in the Replica business who I feel have treated me fairly and honestly and I know they will use it well. I will tell you that if you are going to purchase a replica, follow three steps. If it is for only occasional “showing” off, purchase the least expensive watch offered. If it is to worn for normal usage and confidence, purchase the best grade you can afford, you do get what you pay for. Lastly, Purchase a style that fits your personality. Do not purchase gaudy diamonds or the like if you would not normally be seen that way. Enjoy your success…. The WatchMan Rolex - What Do The Numbers Mean? Rolex model numbers prior to the year 2000 were either four or five digits. - The first two or three describes the type of watch. - The second from the last describes (some exceptions) the type of bezel - The last describes the material that the watch is made from. New models introduced in 2000 have a 1 preceding the old five digit model number. Type of Watch Airking - 55 & 140 Daytona Cosmograph - 165 Daytona Manual Wind - 62 Explorer - 165 GMT Master - 167 Lady OP Date - 65, 69, 691 & 692 Lady OP Datejust - 65, 69, 691 & 692 Lady Oyster Perpetual - 67 & 671 Midsize Oyster Perp DJ - 682 Oyster PD - 18,180, 182 & 183 Oyster PD (Older) - 65 & 66 Oyster Perp Date - 15 & 150 Oyster Perp Date Chronometer - 15 & 150 Oyster Perp Datejust - 16 & 160 Oyster Perpetual - 10 & 140 Oyster Perpetual Chronometer -142 Oyster Quartz Date - 190 Oysterquartz Datejust - 170 Sea Dweller - 16 & 166 Submariner - 16, 166 & 168 Submariner OP - 55 & 140 Thunderbird Bezel DJ - 16 & 162 Yacht Master - 166, 686 & 696 Type of Bezel 0 Polished 1 Finely Engine Turned 2 Engine Turned 3 Fluted 4 Hand-Crafted 5 Pyramid 6 Rotating Bezel Type of Material 0 Stainless 4 Stainless/White Gold 7 14k Yellow Gold 1 Yellow Gold Filled 5 Gold Shell 8 18k Yellow Gold 2 White Gold Filled 6 Platinum 9 18k White Gold 3 Stainless & Yellow Gold Production Dates By Serial Number 1926 - 28,0001975 - 4,267,1001987 - 9,766,000 1937 - 99,0001976 - 4,539,0001987 1/2 - 9,999,999 1943 - 253,4001977 - 5,006,0001987 1/2 - R000,000 1948 - 543,4001978 - 5,482,0001989 - L000,001 1955 * - 1,012,0001979 - 5,958,0001990 1/2 - E000,001 1962 - 1,558,0001980 - 6,424,0001991 3/4 - X000,001 1967 - 2,163,9001981 - 6,910,0001991 3/4 - N000,000 1970 - 2,952,6001982 - 7,366,0001992 1/4 - C000,001 1971 - 3,215,5001983 - 7,862,0001993 3/4 - S000,001 * 1972 - 3,478,4001984 - 8,388,0001995 - W000,001 * 1973 - 3,741,3001985 - 8,814,0001995 3/4 - T000,001 * 1974 - 4,004,2001986 - 9,290,0001997 1/2 - U000,001 * - In late 1998, Rolex began using the A prefix...A000,001 - In early 2000, Rolex began using the P prefix...P000,001 - In mid 2001, Rolex began using the K prefix...K000,001 * When Rolex reached the 999,999 production serial in the early 1950's...they restarted the production serial at 100,000 rather than begin a 7 digit number at 1,000,000. During this period Rolex was also putting the date code on the inside of the case backs...so confusing production serials can sometimes have their production date determined. Look for the Roman number I, II, III or IV for the quarter & two arabic digits for the year. In the late 1950's, Rolex again reached the 999,999 production serial & they started their 7 digit numeric numbering system at 1,000,000 for production serials, this continued until the 1990's until production serials reached 9,999,999. Rather than begin an 8 digit production serial, Rolex instead began their serials with a letter prefix such as R, then L, E & X. (ROLEX without the O) N, C, & S came out during the early to mid 1990's, W, T & U a little later. The latest letter prefixes are all running concurrently...as Rolex wishes! Only Rolex knows the exact date that any watch was actually produced. Confused...? Contact Rolex with the exact serial number of your watch, but don't expect a reply with an answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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