Interview with a watch collector

[caracarnj]

Above: Some of the collector's watches

Q: Can you tell us how your passion for watches was kindled?

A: I developed an interest after I started working in my early 20s. I can still remember my first purchase of an Omega Constellation that cost me more than $2,000; I thought it was the most handsome-looking watch then.

My serious interest was ignited after a chance encounter with a gentleman during one of my business trips to Korea in 1988, during the Seoul Olympics.

I was waiting in the departure lounge of Seoul's Kimpo Airport when I noticed a tall, distinguished-looking Caucasian ushered in by airport personnel. Later on, that same gentleman was escorted to the seat right next to me in the plane, after all the other passengers had boarded.

I started the conversation by noting that airport security was tighter than usual probably due to the Olympics, and this gentleman said politely that he was used to it. No wonder: It turned out he was former US vice-president Spiro Agnew.

Anyway, we had an interesting discussion thereafter. I noticed he was wearing a steel Audemars Piguet Royal Oak, a watch I was familiar with because golf pro Nick Faldo was its ambassador - and I was newly addicted to golf.

He was kind enough to remove it and show me the watch. That was when I told myself I had to own a watch like that. Just before landing, he said to me: 'Young man, I enjoyed the conversation we've had and I wish to give you a little souvenir.'

With that, he reached into his bag and handed me a box embossed with the seal of the vice-president of United States of America, and his signature was engraved on the pen inside. When we landed in Hong Kong, he was escorted out of the plane before the rest of us, but what a memorable encounter it was for me! Four years later, in 1992, I eventually bought my first significant watch - a brand new Royal Oak steel gold in 1992 - when my earnings allowed me the luxury.

Q: On that note, can you share with our BT readers some of the other highlights of the collection you have built up since that time, some 16 years ago?

A: OK, initially I went after watches that I considered iconic and representative of the brand. Audemars Piguet's Royal Oak, Lange's Lange 1, Patek Philippe's Nautilus, Glashutte Original's Senator Perpetual, the Rolex Submariner, Panerai's Luminor Submersible, Girard-Perregaux's Ferrari chronograph and so on.

Later on, I went after specialisation. Omega Broad Arrow for its clutch-operated chronograph movement, Rolex Daytona for its evergreen design, Patek's perpetual calendar 5059 for the officer casing style, UN Sonata II for the innovative 24-hour alarm setting and highly unusual cathedral gong. In addition, Patek's Annual Calenders from 5035, 5135, 5396 and most recently, its extremely hard to come by Advanced Research piece - the 5350.

I have to admit that, from time to time, I am attracted purely by the looks. In this genre I would include the Cartier Santos 100, Panerai Radiomir, the 50th anniversary black enamel dial version of the Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch classic, and other Patek classics like its Travel Time in platinum and Gondolo Cabriolet.

However, for me the ultimate classical expression of beauty has to be my Patek 5970. One can get intoxicated by just looking at the amazingly complex and beautifully finished movement. For some reason, its predecessor, the 3970, attracted me less - even though the movement is exactly the same. It is probably due to the larger size of the 5970 and the superbly crafted elegant dial with two shades of silver-grey.

Q: An impressive collection indeed, our congratulations. So, all told, would you say you make your purchases based on looks, emotion or movement characteristics?

A: I guess it has to be a bit of everything. If a watch is not appealing to me, it means I don't like its look and that's the end of the story; if the pull is very strong, then the emotional (irrational) factor takes precedence.

I am less technically inclined so the movement characteristics (which are different from the functions they carry) don't have to play a major role in my consideration but I do have one requirement: I have a personal perceived value for every watch.

These days, I find it increasingly difficult to justify to myself the prices that many brands are asking for their watches. It seems to me they are trying to make it sound like watch-making is far more complicated and demanding than other highly sophisticated industries.

Yet, the latter do not seem to charge the same kind of king's ransom for their end-products.

Q: Do you have any interesting stories to share about any of your watches?

A: I do believe that buying a watch from time to time provides good therapy. One morning a few years ago, I was boiling mad with my staff in Korea. Thereafter, when I was out at lunch with a few watch enthusiast friends, we stopped by a watch shop and there and then I just picked up a Rolex GMT II. This surprised all my friends as I had been reluctant to go to the shop in the first place.

I must say I felt a lot better after the purchase and, thankfully, this watch became not my abused item, but my regular travel companion to countries outside our time zone. But seriously, from time to time the process of acquiring a watch is far more interesting than the final act itself. This has probably got to do with anticipation, which is very much psychological in nature.

Q: Does any watch in your collection hold special significance for you?

A: Not really, I am not a sentimental sort of person so most of my purchases are not tied to any special occasion - except for the above instance where frustration prompted my impulsive buying. That doesn't happen too often though; otherwise I would have ended up with thousands of watches by now.

Q: You have amassed a large and diverse collection of Patek Philippe watches; what is it that draws you to this brand in particular?

A: Well, having been collecting watches all these years, and being a banker myself, I find Patek has the most significant appeal that others would find extremely hard to duplicate at this moment: Prestige. This prestige comes from three basic factors: Firstly, the legitimacy of a long lineage; secondly, innovation and technical prowess; and, thirdly, movements exclusively used in their own watches. Granted, there were or are a few movements that do not originate entirely from Patek. For example, the Nautilus using a JLC base, and the CH 27 movement constructed from a Lemania base.

However, these are also movements that are exclusive to them, and ones that have been improved in-house over time. The result is that their reliability and beauty have taken root so deeply that they have become synonymous with Patek's intrinsic values. Such prestige will naturally create excellent demand, which in turn explains why Patek prices can have such good holding power. From a financial point of view, if you are going to spend a lot of money for a watch, you will feel a lot better if its value does not depreciate too quickly, and Patek appears to be the only one at present that commands such a position. Naturally, it will be an added bonus if it appreciates, but the first aim is to minimise rapid depreciation.

Another thing that Patek under the Stern family has done very correctly and positively has been to uphold the practice of an ownership register. Since the company's inception, the owner of each and every Patek watch has had the opportunity to register his purchase with the firm. This tradition, once interrupted, will be forever lost. Yes, some upmarket brands have tried to start again this tradition but, just like a record, once it is broken, it can never be put together again. They have to re-start from scratch.

Truly amazing

Q: I understand you own two Patek Philippe cloisonne enamel dial watches. What made you choose an enamelled masterpiece instead of a complicated wristwatch?

A: For two very simple reasons: artistry and scarcity. While many people are aware of the cloisonne enamel vases or wares produced by Chinese craftsmen over thousands of years, it is technically much harder to produce the artwork in the small confines of a wrist-watch. For the Chinese mythical cloisonne enamel horse that I own, what's truly amazing is that the original came from a Ming or Qing Dynasty porcelain bowl - reproduced by Patek, colour for colour and stroke for stroke, in cloisonne style.

The original bowl is probably 10 to 15 times larger than the size of the watch, so you can imagine the degree of difficulty to reproduce it today.

As for my other piece, which is part of the Fish series (or what some would call the Nemo series), it is a combination of miniature painting and cloisonne, where the drawings and colours are so vibrant, vivid and real that one has to see it in the flesh to appreciate what I am talking about.

Well, I'm truly grateful to Patek's agent in Singapore, Geneva Master Time, for the privilege and opportunity to acquire them. Patek only produced three sets of Horses (each set consists of four different designs and colours) and 10 sets of the Fish series (also four different fish for each set). These watches are indeed art pieces reproduced by Patek, just to remind themselves that they must possess such artistic ability as an integrated part of their history.

Q: Besides Patek, are there any other brands that speak to you - and why?

A: Oh, there are many brands that speak to me, and I would love to acquire them, if only I can force myself to accept them within my own levels of 'perceived value'. I do have within my collection Breguet, which produces the best blued steel hands, Vacheron Constantin for understated elegance, the Chronoswiss Quarter Repeater for its lovely porcelain white dial and chimes, and IWC for the unusual ceramic Double chrono.

If price is no object, I am fascinated by Urwerk's Hammerhead Shark, which epitomises the avant-garde in concept and creativity and with a unique presentation. F P Journe is another brand that has created its own identity, and is a little snobbish.

For many others, sad to say, my view is that they are merely playing with designs on dials and cases, and sometimes with materials, and I have my doubts they will be remembered in time to come. I have no gripes with such brands in the market today, if only they would refrain from pricing their watches so unrealistically.

Q: On that important note, would you like to say more about the fast-rising prices of watches, both new and on the secondary market, Patek Philippes in particular?

A: One word: Madness. For me, it's a case of many watchmakers taking us, the buyers (especially the novices), for a ride. We are thoroughly exploited by the commercials and exaggerated claims. Come on: Just because you buy a brand that existed 100 years ago and stick a tried and tested ETA movement into a case, that doesn't mean the brand instantly carries a rich history that commands premium pricing.

At the same time, we have a situation where many upmarket brands are claiming they are true manufactures of movements, and are therefore justified in asking ridiculous prices.

In my mind, for a brand to take over a small independent movement maker, it's only a business decision, and cannot be looked at in the same light as if the brand has been making its own movements from the day of its inception.

For every new calibre a brand is producing, there's so much hue and cry, as if it's a big scientific breakthrough. We therefore have to be very sensible and selective in our approach. At the end of the day, always bear in mind that an expensive watch is not essential or necessary - it is more about affordability. I wish the watchmakers can resist the constant temptation of exploitation, and instead try to deliver fair value to buyers, if they are thinking about captivating young and new watch buyers in the long term - something they must do in order to ensure the industry's continuity. To a large extent, the Pateks of the watch world need to strategise too, and not create a backlash by pushing their prices over the top. Their priority should be to continue to retain a bunch of top-class skilled watchmakers, with high motivation to produce top-notch watches with zero defects. From another perspective, however, it's difficult to control the current irrational behaviour of some buyers who are directly responsible for chasing prices up, making the watches highly speculative items.

The good thing, as I have said earlier, is that most buyers do not need to indulge in this form of activity, as watches are not essential items. If they want to speculate, they should go to the stock or property market, where the returns can be far more significant.

Q: As a collector with long experience, what do you think are the big trends in the watch industry in the next few years?

A: Instead of giving a reply to this question, which many more eminent collectors can answer, perhaps what I can do is to tell new enthusiasts not to fall for limited editions, which watchmakers have a tendency to produce to justify high prices.

Honestly, right now most of these limited editions do not mean a thing because it is very unlikely that you will make a gain after purchasing. You should base your decision to buy on whether you like it, and whether the asking price is fair exchange for the pleasure of owning it. Don't even think of making a gain - it is an illusion most of the time. In any event, unless a watch is worth well into the high five to six figures, any gain is too small to make an impact on one's wealth.

Q: What do you consider eminently collectable these days, but is still missing in your own collection?

A: I would love to have a Patek minute repeater and tourbillon, but that would mean I'd need to either continue working for the next five years (with no disaster or calamity in the world economy) or stop buying other watches for a couple of years.

I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to watches and, unfortunately, have a pre-conceived notion of 'value for money' for the watches that I come across. Don't get me wrong, I think any steel Rolex sports watch is an excellent choice, for its functionality and versatility (both formal and casual) and - most importantly - their price increases are more controlled and gradual, spread out over a long period of time. Sadly, however, some others have tried to run before they can walk, when they have not yet passed the important test of market durability, something that can only be earned after an adequate passage of time.

Q: Over the years, what have you learnt NOT to do when making a purchase decision for a watch?

A: That is easy: Never compare yourself with others. In short, never be tempted to buy watches that are beyond your punching weight. You purchase a watch only because of the pleasure you may derive from it, and because you have the spare cash to pay for it. Just like owning a car. Yes, many of us wish to have a Porsche or Ferrari or Bentley, but we may settle for something sensible, where we feel the money is reasonably spent.

Never compare yourself with people who have the means to acquire the top-end watches. I cannot - hand on heart - say no, you can't do impulsive buying, as I have done it several times myself. There's nothing wrong with it as long as it does not break your bank or delay your monthly utility payments. Find out more about the particular watch (which is an exciting process) before any purchase. Hold it, wear it and test it (especially if it is a chronograph), then decide. The perception of intrinsic value of a watch will vary significantly from one to another. Ultimately the choice is yours, and it's about who you choose to listen to.

[capice]

really nice interview...where is it coming from?

[caracarnj]

really nice interview...where is it coming from?

It was conducted by Business Times (Singapore) with a local (Singaporean) watch collector.

[xelorrolex]

Mmmh, interesting point of view and experience .... thanks for sharing ...

IF ONLY I COULD !!!

[donpedro]

Thanks for sharing! Really nice read!

[Dario33]

Yeah, nice read -- thanks for sharing!

[whitestripes]

Excellent read! I enjoyed it and looked up more information at many of the watches he mentioned. Talk about high horology!