Ztech

I once owned a GP Seahawk Pro diver. It was my grail and when I finally got her I was high for a bit. It was all good till I went to purchase the SS bracelet for her and was told that it would cost me $4K. I was so angered by that outright JACK that I ended up selling the watch. I know that some peole have more money than sense, but come on... If it smells like [censored] and looks like [censored]... it usually is. It doesn't matter that I can afford such a thing, I just won't play into their snobbery. They can't make me belive that their SS bracelet is so well designed and made that it should cost $3,900.00 more than a regular $100 SS bracelet you can pick up anywhere. I guess all that is what sort of brought me here to the rep world. Sadly, I'm learning that the rep world aint cheap either.

Cheers!

I'm glad someone asked this question as it was on my mind too. Thanks!

Can't wait till what the next one will be... any hints???

You have to find something thin (like a razor blade) but usually a nice thin screwdriver, something that you can use to lever and carefully pry the two halves apart. Be careful not to slice your finger off with a razor blade, but on the same note, be careful that you do not ruin the dial by carelessly shoving a screwdriver and prying with great force.

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I really don't want to ruin either of those things.

I disassembled only two sandwich dials, both from two PAM 203, one manual-wind (6497 movement), the other one auto ("Asian 21J" movement).

Both they had no screws to keep the dial in place, just two metal pins quite easy to remove from the movement plate (the pins were not even glued). I have been able to remove the dials by simply applying gentle lever action with a watchsmith knife.

Ok, that helps a lot thanks sssurfer. I've read that you need a razor blade to slice the 2 halves of the sandwich dials apart. Is that pretty much correct? I hope I can get this right. Or at least partially. I don't want to have to come back to the forum and post a thread about missing fingers.

Thanks for doing this and congrats to the winner! I was trying to time it just right, but no cigar. This time.

Ok, I'm very confused. I was waiting till the close of the auction so that I could just put in a high bid, but there were conflicting amounts. What gives??? Also, I think I clicked the send button before 4:00 PM PST, but I don't know if it went if immediately.

Who won??? And for what amount???

Wait??? The figures are different???

$222 USD

1:53 pm 7 minutes to go until the auction closes and sailinjack has the high bid @126.00 USD i AM GOING BY THE TIME ON MY BLACKBERRY.. SAME AS i USED TO START THIS ..

$127 USD!!!

So I guess it's either real Swiss, Asian or a ETA copy? Hmm... I guess they're really good at making reps of the movement now.

So what does everyone think? A good buy at that price?

Thanks everyone. Ok, I'm going to attempt to take some pics of the watch and I'll post them up along with the saved PM's I have from him. Normally, I would hardly take this sitting down, but I sort of chalked it up to the learning curve for the rep world, but like TeeJay stated, these things should be brought to light. Especially, because I see that the same person has had several other items up for sale within the last few days. Thanks again everyone.

I'm interested in a few too! Thanks.

Well, no special method actually. Just a watchsmith knife, or a thin screwdriver, and patience.

You may have a look at the results in this old post of mine.

Just:

1) it was not focused on separating the layers of a sandwich dial;

2) I told to remove the old lume with a blade -- then I found acethone safer and troubleless;

3) in that post I tried a different (and cheaper) pigment than Superluminova, but I now recommend to go with Superluminova.

Thanks again for the info sssurfer. So is there a special method to remove the dial from the movement? I think I read somewhere that you have to unscrew 2 screws from behind the 6497 movement. Is that correct? I need to get a hold of a sandwich dial to give this a try. It sounds easier than doing the hands. Ok, I think I've now got enough info to give this a try. Thanks all.

Wow, I too would have sworn that The Zigmeister recommended to remove the old lume before applying the new one, and to do it by careful hand work with a precision blade.

On my very limited experience, removing the old lume from hands and sandwich dials is a trouble-free and scratch-free procedure, by just dipping them (only the back layer of the dial, I mean ) in acethone for 10 mins then rubbing them with a soft cloth.

And removing the old lume from a sandwich dial helps in not getting it too thick, so avoiding problems with the central pin and small seconds hand.

Obviously, a sausage dial is a completely different matter...

(Awesome painting and painting skills, Rob!)

How do you seperate a sandwich dial? Is there a method?

Were the scratches not visible on the sale photos of the watch? Same question about the mark on the dial...

Please tell me you didn't buy the watch without at least seeing a photo of it...

If the person is refusing to take it back, then the route is 'name and shame'. Take pictures, post them, and give the name. Doesn't matter who it is, how desperate they were for the money, or anything. Ripping off people is not cool, and people need to know that they can't be trusted.

If you can turn it into a project watch, or even have it repaired, it might not be a complete loss

Best of luck

Wow! I just tried to find the "for sale" post from the seller so I could get the pics he originally posted, but for some wierd reason it's gone. Is it common practice that for sale posts are deleted after the sale is made???

Now I can't show the pics he originally posted. Am I missing something???

I have the PM's he and I traded back and forth. First, there was no mention of the mark on the dial. He said he never even saw it. Huh? I wonder. Also, before the payment he had mentioned something about hands so I asked him if the hands were scratched. He answered no. I was surprised to see the scratched hands when I got it. His answer was for me to go buy some new ones and that during the re-luming process hands get scratched. I did read that scratches do happen during re-luming, but shouldn't he had not lied about it when I asked him?

Personally, I'm [censored] about the situation, but I'm trying to put it behind me. He's a supporter of this forum and since I'm a noob I didn't want to shake the boat. Plus he could decide not to send me the missing CG screw.

Thanks for all your advice. Unfortunately, the scratches are quite noticable. It's the first thing I noticed when I took the watch out of the box and looked at it under "normal" indoor lighting. The seller didn't disclose the fact that the hands were scratched and he won't take the watch back. Heck, the watch came filthy like it was just taken out of a dirty closet and it had a CG screw missing. Oh well, what can you do, you live and learn. I guess the guy was in more desperate need of the $450 than I. That's that...

I also do understand that this was a "used" watch and on top of that a rep, but I don't see why even a rep has to flash such a noticable fault to the world. Oh, did I tell you guys about the mark on the dial that also gives away the watch to anyone who looks at it at arms distance? I know it's a rep, but I don't want to wear something that screams it. So I guess, I'll either try to see if I can buff the scracthes off or source another set of hands, which by the way, what the seller told me to do if I wasn't happy with it. Umm.... yeah after he never mentioned anything about scratched hands or posted pics of it.

So now I'm looking to see if I can source some parts for it so I can, at least, salvage something from it. At least the movement and saphire AR crystal look pretty good, so that's a start. I just had the CG sanded down to something acceptable as the lever stuck way~~ out of the CG itself. Now it's somewhat acceptable.

By the way, it's been a full week since I e-mailed Angus and no reply. Is that normal for him?

Teejay = yep this one is upside down. Hey I'm learning. To date, this is the first 47mm PAM I've ever seen up close, rep or gen. Now that I'm paying more closer attention, I noticed that the chronos also have their CG's upside down too.

No one has mentioned cost yet, and since this thing hasn't really gotten off the ground, it may be a bit premature. However, just wondering if anyone has a ballpark idea as to cost per dial?

I think this may help guage interest more accurately.

That's a very good question bbell6. I guess we sort of can't figure that out till we have some sort of committed interest and get a dealer on board, but I think I'd be willing to pay upwards of $150 per dial instead of wasting that much on other reps that have faulty dials/part/etc.

Thanks guys for your advice. Unfortunately, I bought it off of another forum member so I can't demand new hands.

Hmm... so it's not something I can do myself? Then I guess I'll have to look into sourcing some new hands for the watch because I don't want to stick that Fiddy in a drawer after I just paid $450 for it.

I just picked up a PAM 127 Fiddy but the hour hand has got some significant scratches on it. How do I go about fixing it? Or is it even possible? It would seem that if I get the hand off the dial I could buff it out with a rouge cloth? It's really bothering me as it's so visible I wouldn't even want to wear it outside of the house. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Z

Hmm... so there is a difference? I took a look at JF's hands on ebay and I couldn't tell the difference. Well, I guess I couldn't tell even if I were holding them in my hands. He does sell like a set of five for $50. I might take a look at them then. Thanks all.

I guess difficulty depends on a lot of things...how much time have you spent working under a loupe is the biggest problem. One eye loupe, one eye, no depth perception... as well as working 2-3 inches from your nose...

Consider the cost of Super Luminova, a kit will run about $50 plus $40 or so in shipping. You can get a cheaper kit made by AF Switzerland, but the lume is not the same quality or has the ease of SL for application.

Then add practice, and more practice, I damaged a number of dials when I started, luckly they were all my own watches.

The lume is the consistancy of snot, so you can't brush it on, you use a metal dip oiler to pick up a drop at a time, and apply it to the dial.

In my case, I have the advantage of having been an artist for almost 30 years...painting with a brush is not that hard, but even with the brushes and paints, not everyone can produce something like this.

Sandwich dials are split for lume, you lume the bottom plate and then re-install the top one.

Saussage dials are a bit harder due to the fact if you slip and get lume on the dial, it will dissolve the dial paint...no room for error...

Good luck if you give it a go.

RG

Thanks for your reply The Zigmeister! You've just confirmed what I've been thinking all along. I'm sure I'll figure out a way to screw this up. But I've gotten a hold of a few useless dials/hands and I'm gonna give it a try. It would seem that hands would be easier to apply the lume to, no? I was thinking of applying the lume with the point end of a pin first. Well, here goes nothing. Thanks again The Zigmeister. At least I know if I screw this up, I can always send it out to you.

P.S. Nice painting The Zigmeister. I would show you mine, but I don't want to embarasse myself with the stick figure stuff I do.

That's Ruby! Well respected dealer around here.

Thanks arty for clearing that up for us. If I recall correctly, I think I got that link from another thread on this forum.

By the way, Ruby's PAM111H has got my interest peaked and that price.... Any opinions on it? Is there a consensus around here about it? Thanks.

The only swiss bit will be the base plate, the top bridges will be all asian.

Ahh... so is that their bait and switch? These guys advertise as Swiss movements, but they're as you described above? Ok, I'm still learning. Thanks for that info.

You have spelt it wrong. Should be jimmyzfu. However he only has blue & gold hands left AFAIK.

That I did didn't I? Thanks PAMman. So are his hands that much better than say what you get with a decent rep?

Sorry, I forgot where exactly I got that dealer info from, but I thought the prices were good if those watches indeed come with genuine Swiss movements like they state.