shimside11

This is actually an IWC replica. I was looking through an old 2006 IWC catalogue and there it was. page 15. Classic Big Pilot 52 S.C. 1940, sterile dial. It looks just like the original. Good font, markers and hands. Although the reps are blued. So, that resolves the mystery for me. I was wondering what was up...so there's your answer. Now we can all go out and buy one now that we know that it is a true replica of a real watch, and not just a cop-out sterile homage.

These are part of IWCs Vintage Collection - Jubilee Edition. They were introduced in Jan 08 to the press. They've got six new versions of vintage lines. They include: Portuguese, Pilot, Ingenieur, Aquatimer, DaVinci, and Portofino. They are starting out with 500 of each in platinum. The first 140 of each will be sold in six piece sets. After that they will be run in non-limited production in stainless steel. I don't even want to think about how much a limited platinum set will go for. I'm certain it's well beyond the price of my house which is about 400k usd. Now, the coolest thing would be if the rep makers got ahead of the game and introduced them in sets. Oh the irony...reproductions of reproduction watches in a commemorative set of a commemorative set. If these things come out as reps, I'm right there.

The guys at Timezone take themselves far too seriously. (The Paneristi are even worse). When you have spent multiple thousands on a watch, only to see someone with an indistinquishable copy that keeps time just as well, you've got to do everything you can to disparage it. It's a matter of self preservation. How can you sleep at night knowing that you overpaid for your sub by 5.600usd. You must belittle the rep or you will go insane. There is a phrase that I found here: "respect for the forger's art". That outlook by itself, for me, justifies our little pursuit. Because of the depth of knowledge required to really embrace this aspect of watches, some of our members know much more about horology than even the well-versed timezoner. If you see reps as an addition to your love of the sport, instead of some bastardized spin-off, you can take pride in your appreciation, and even pooh-pooh (ok...patronize) the narrow minded dillettantes over there. Frankly, I really like the iconoclastic and subversive nature of the world of replicas, all the while, moving in the "respectable" circles of the WIS. Can you imagine sitting at lunch with a "purist", talking him under the table about his 3135 movement, the pros and cons of microstella screws and nivarox hairsprings, the fabulous histories of the great manufactures and god-like watchmakers, A L Breguet, Daniels, Oechslin, etc. Bring up the latest Basel news, wax poetic about Gerald Genta's revolutionary designs, and get in a heated debate about the FiftyFathoms/Submariner controversy... then, as you pick up the bill, and he is still back at micro...what? you walk away with your spot-on Rolex/Breitling/IWC (whatever) and the poor bastard hasn't the first clue. Have fun with it.

It's interesting that you mention the Overseas. That is one of my favourite watches. I tried on a gen at Torneau in Las Vegas last year and fell in love with it. At 10,600usd the gen is about 5k out of my justifiable price range. I've looked into the rep (Josh's improved version) but I seem to remember reading some negative feedback on the clasp. I've had some bad luck with a replica dual deployant myself, so I've been a bit hesitant. Overall though, the Overseas is a beautiful piece and is still on my list.

I just got back from ten days in Oahu, specificaly Waikiki. Everyone from young Japanese kids to middle-age American men had one. Our boat captain had one, and that's really the only one I confirmed was real. I must have seen at least thirty that I took the time to notice, including a young couple in their early twenties, with matching SS Subs. I was considering a gen SS Sub as a reward for my next promotion, but I am seriously reconsidering. With all the reps out there, it's becoming such a common look. I know that the sub is a classic and the reps shouldn't influence me, but I'm tempted to just stay with a close replica and go with something a bit more exclusive as a gen. On the other hand (sorry..bad pun), I saw only one Panerai. It was on a guy at the luau. It was a new 1950 that he had recently purchased. The thing stood out from everyone else and looked absolutely fantastic. I know that there is alot of sentiment out there that the Sub is too common, but there is also a school of thought that any serious collector should have one. What do you think?

Well, I scored a couple of the hard to find catalogues while in Vegas last week. I got AP and IWC. Tried on a FA Jones while I was there. That is one cool watch.

I have a PAM 120 rep that is 40mm. After wearing it for a few months I got a Seiko Orange Monster for Christmas. Now The PAM rep seems small. I've decided to go for a 005 rep from Josh. I recently tried the real thing on at my local AD and it seems to be a much more reasonable size than it used to be. I have a 6.5" wrist, and when I first tried a gen Panerai on two years ago, there was no way it was going to work. I guess that it's just a matter of getting used to trends. The cool thing about reps is that when huge watches are out and you can't believe that you actually used to wear something that ridiculous, you remember that you didn't spend $6,000.00 on it. For a couple hundred, I'm good with putting it in a drawer until they come back into fashion.

I have received several catalogues from the source at their various websites. Many of them have a link that you can order a catalogue. I got Carl Bucherer, Cuervo y Sobrinos, and some others that I don't recall. Mostly though, I get them from the AD. I find that if you go in with any familiarity with the brand, enough that they know you've done some homework, they usually offer the catalogue, and bottled water, and allow you to try the nicer ones on. I usually ask them if they have a model that I know very well that they won't have in my city.Also, little things like "is this one a Z series?" or "Anonimo...isn't that where Dino Zei went when he left Panerai?" or simply "are these guys a Swatch company?" help convince them that it won't be a waste to give you one. It may help to dress nice and be over 40. Don't know if you can do anything about that last one... The catalogues I've obtained from dealers: Omega (the hardbound cat. not just the pamphlet) Breitling (it's called the "Chronolog" ask for it by name) Panerai Rolex Tissot Oris Tag Heuer Longines Ulysse Nardin Some that have eluded me are Patek, Vacheron Constintin, IWC, and Audemars Piquet It's almost as fun as collecting reps, well...not really, but it is amusing just for the thrill of the hunt.

This one looks like a step backwards from the new and improved subs. It looks like the bracelet has solid mid links (if I'm wrong tell me). As was noted the "m"s don't line up. It has the old sticker with the gold numbers. The pearl is also not as correct as I have seen, though it is better than most. I got one in '05 from Paul that is more advanced than this one. I'm actually in the market for another sub, as my crown is stripped and I'm not inclined to repair it. You said that this is Josh's expensive one? Does anyone have pics of the beginmariner - is it any better? Now I'm confused.

I've been looking at Josh's 005 for 108usd. It looks like a good rep, no exhibition back to deal with and it reps the entry level panerai so it's credible for me.

Here's my contribution. This one is from Paul, from the old abay days. First version with the hollow mid links. This is a silix bond sub, re-lumed with white luminescent paint mixed with yellow ochre oil paint. Bezel click taken out. It's an on-going project, still needs the lugs drilled out and the serial and model numbers taken off.

That's the real deal.

Yesterday I was at my local Panerai dealer and noticed that they had a Pam 119. So today I brought in my 120 rep (I replaced the bracelet with a strap) to compare just for kicks. Wow...these things are getting closer to gen every day. The only really obvious flaw is that the date wheel is too small. the colour of both the dial and the markers is very close. The crown protector is slightly less beefy, but not obviously so. The lume would be a dead giveaway in low light, but you can't tell in "daylight" (sorry, couldn't resist). One thing that I thought was interesting, the guy said that he had to show it to the resident panerai expert. He was quite impressed with it, then turned it over, and looked at the back. He saw 0938/5000 and said "they only made 500, not 5000 of this one". I told him that it had the caseback of the old pam 70 that had 5000 issued. PAM fans really tend to know their stuff. It's probably stating the obvious, but the gens really have an air of quality and attention to detail, that reps just cannot approach. The weight is the same, and cosmetically they are very similar, but I can see why the brand has really taken off. They just scream quality and craftsmanship. I'll pay 5k USD for one with no regrets (once I've got the discretionary cash). Overall it was a very enlightening experience. I tried on a gen 005 that just arrived today. Now I need a gen. There is something quite magnetic about Panerai. I must say that I've really caught the fever and I'm starting to really see why the Paneristi guys are so into the sport. You really have to try on the real thing to get a feel for it. Pics don't do them justice.

Just a couple of tips... Before I got mine, I searched google images for pics of the gens, kept them in a file and compared them. The big tells on this model are the crown guards and the bezel pearl. The middle links in the bracelet should be hollow. The non-date models that I have found don't have the hollow mid-links, probably because the demand for the non-date isn't as great as for the date. I would suggest to go with the dealers reccomended on this site. They are very reputable (despite the current whining by some spoiled members that don't know what they have here) and will deliver. For what it's worth, this is my favourite: vintage sub Hope that helps some. Good luck in your search.

It's always that damned recessed canon pinion. They are so close otherwise... it's just maddening to see it. That is all that is wrong with the 000 and the 005, since the back is SS. Even as close as the 111h gets, with the trouble that they have taken to get the bridges and swan neck right, it's still the short pinion. (yeah, yeah, the lume...don't even go there)

Now that is a cool watch. Is that a real model or fantasy? I know that Rolex worked closely with Panerai, supplying movements for a time. That could be a serious contender for the collection. If you have a history on it, or any background at all please post it. I've never seen this one before. Also, just for fun, speaking of badass Rollies,

This is the closest that I've found. I got it from Silix a couple of years ago. I re-lumed the markers with a bit of yellow ochre oil paint mixed with luminous paste, took the bezel click out (so now its bi-directional) and put a NATO strap on it. I still have to drill out the lugs and file down the serial and model numbers. Silix lists it as out of production on their site, but I have seen a thread that some people are lobbying for a re-issue with a group buy. I think that Angel and Jay are in favour of it as long as they get enough interest. From my research it looks like a 6536 or 6538 from '58 or '59. Here is a pic of the gen, then mine, and a still from Goldfinger. Sorry about the sizing.

Good company. I've got a watch box and the leather catchall from them.

For a day at home with the kids. This one doesn't get out in public much.

I have a couple of Invictas and Timex that I think are pretty safe. They're well within the <6k range. The legendary Invicta 8926 with a Miyota movement has an outstanding reputation. The rep factories won't even go near it. They know that you just don't mess with a watch like that. With it's brilliant interpretation of the seamaster bezel and the sub dial and the Citizen guts....oh....I guess that it's already a rep. Never mind... How about the Seiko Orange Monster. Not likely to be repped any time soon, unless they are able to come up with a believable copy for about 19.95usd. Armitron, Casio, Wenger, Fossil, Guess, all very fine timepieces that will likely escape the forger's grasp.

I encountered our esteemed Mr. Pugwash out in the mainstream watch world. 6 posts and he's already giving them hell. Called someone out on a SS Daytona with a Kill Bill reference. I was on the floor The community here is so much more fun and when our iconoclastic personalities spill out into the mainstream I get a sort of perverse glee out of the experience. @pugwash - I know you can't really go into the details over there, but if you would like to elaborate on them here, I would love to hear it. I'm not a Daytona expert but I am learning. I'm not going to post the link, but if you would like, I think it would make a fine discussion. Bravo, sir! Keep them on their toes. I have seen a few reps posted out there but have never had the nerve to address it.

They have a great AP selection at the Wynn. Do look at Torneau though, they have pre-owned as well as new. The volume that they do there may lend itself to a decent discount depending on the brand. Besides, it's just a rush to even look around in there with one of the biggest selection of brands in the western US.

I've told this story here before, but I think it's worth repeating... My local AD had a guy bring in a rep Rolex Datejust for repair. He bought it assuming it was real. They sent it back to Rolex and in a few weeks, got a letter from their legal department saying that they are keeping the watch, as it has their trademark on it, and suggested that the gentleman purchase a genuine Rolex from an authorized dealer. If the bank sends your counterfeit bill back to the treasury dept., you don't get it back either. Tragic tale, but look on the bright side. You have one hellofa story that you won't soon forget. You should be able to get a lot of milage out of this one. This is up there with Nanuk's tossing his sub(dweller?) rep into the ocean, to the horror of several onlookers. (if you haven't read that, it's worth a search, I don't know if it's here or on the old forum)

I've found that a bit of knowledge goes a long way if the sales person is into watches also. Little things like "Longines...they're a Swatch company, right..." or "do they use ETA based movements?" either perk up a sales clerk and get them talking, or get you a blank look and they assume you know what you're talking about, and help you. I sometimes go in just to ask what's new. When the Planet Ocean was new, it was a great excuse to go ask about it when I knew full well that no dealer within 1000 miles of me even had it yet. Then look at the other watches. My favourite experience is when I went into a high end shop in Vegas and when the snooty sales guy asked if he could help me, I replied "do you have..." and he condescendingly cut me off and said "yes, we do". I continued, "the new Planet Ocean?" he didn't have it. I asked about an AP Royal Oak, didn't have that one either, and when I said "well, then I won't even ask about the VC Overseas" he was about falling over himself to show it to me. He brought out a 25k Ulysse Nardin and some nice IWCs to try on. If you frequent a dealer that has come to know you, and you like to browse, it's good to throw them a bone once in a while. Buy a low priced Hamilton or something every now and then so they won't toss you out when you come to window shop.

Although I have been to the site through reference links, I had never just lurked around and looked through it. The purist guys are way over the top. I just cruised through the forum for fun, realizing that I didn't really know what it is all about. Wow...I didn't think people like that really existed outside of caricature. I've learned a ton through TZ and others, and even though they get a bit pissy at times, they are nothing compared to these snobs. My little excursion through the sacred ground of that place has spawned a renewed interest in high-end replicas. We really need to patronize our dealers and create a demand for better and better reps. The closer, the better. I would love to see Asian movements and real tourbillons get to the point that they can rival the function and materials (and of course the brand recognition ) of some obscenely priced gens. I would love to hear stories about someone spotting a 250k watch at a party and saying "hey, dude, I got the same watch and it only set me back 5,000." Upon inspection, there really is not much difference at all. Same precious metals, same smooth functioning movement as the gen, since at some point you have severely diminishing returns. It seems that there is a transition from a healthy interest in a particular pursuit to a kind of perversion of it, where some people go from a broad appreciation and enormous knowledge base, to a very small tolerance. I know that it is defended as becoming refined and appreciating the finer points, but it also becomes very self-important and absurd. Interesting psychology to it all. Anybody get the same impression, or more interestingly, the opposite? What are your thoughts?