automatico

I have put a few Frankenstein DJ together and here is what I know... 1...A 'top of the line' FS DJ would be a genuine case/dial/bracelet + fresh Eta but all the parts + Eta + labor will usually come out to $700 or $800+/- (add $500/$700 +/- for tutone). 2...The next step down is probably a genuine case and dial with aft/mkt bracelet and fresh Eta + labor for about $500 to $700. Still a lot of $$ imho. 3...Drop down to a replica case/bracelet with fresh Eta and genuine dial at about $400 to $500. This barely qualifies as a Frankenstein but cost is held down. 4...Last but not least is the non FS DJ...the best looking dial you can find in a 'swiss Eta' 100% replica. 5...Down from that is the same watch with an Etaclone. 6...Last in line is same as the Etaclone watch but with '21 jewel' motor. All the above applies to 36mm sapphire DJ. Q...How would I go? A...Option 3 or 4. Option 5 if I had a spare swiss Eta. Tips... 1...Steel FS DJ are a lot cheaper because of gold prices. A high quality die struck 18k bezel that used to be $150 is now $250 to $400 or more. An Italy made high grade SS/14k heavy center link jubilee is now $800 or $900 when they used to be $400 or less. A SS/14k bracelet looks just like a SS/18k bracelet so save the $$ because most of the 14k gold used in aft/mkt rolex parts is mixed to look like 18k. If you buy a genuine rolex bezel, 14k was used into the 1980s and the bezels are not marked for content, only stamped on the underside with a coronet on later models. The bracelet's gold content is marked on the clasp on tutones and the bezel should match. Buying from unknown sellers with bargain prices may result in 10k or 12k gold being sold for 14k or 18k. 2...Stainless steel die struck fluted bezels are available for about $35 to make a SS/white gold DJ look-alike. 3...Be sure to use a snug fitting metal spacer and case clamps/screws to secure the movement tightly so it will not slide around inside the case when you pull the crown out etc because this will scuff the paint off the edge of the dial. Before long it will start peeling, especially if it has clear coat on it. 4...Apply some glue to the back side of replica dial marker feet to make sure the markers do not fall off. Be careful with superglue as it can travel and get on the dial. Clean the 'gummy glue' off around the feet if possible first. 5...Use a good aft/mkt case tube and genuine crown on replica cases if possible. Some replica DJ cases are threaded for 5.3mm case tubes so be sure to get the correct combo (read the crown sticky above). 6...If the aft/mkt case already has a sapphire crystal...let it be if it does not leak water (remove the mvt and leave the case in the deep end of the pool overnight etc to check it). 7...If you have a gen spec case, it is a good idea to install a gen spec aft/mkt gasket and sapphire crystal so you can use a gen spec bezel (30.5mm ID). Some replica DJ will have a goofy bezel/crystal combo but the case neck will be the same as genuine (29.45mm to 29.5mm OD). Solid gold bezels can be stretched out of spec by being installed on out of spec aft/mkt crystals or allowed to get out of level when installing them. Always measure the ID of used gold bezels before buying one if possible. A gold bezel much over 29.55 or 29.6 may not seal the case. Btw, I stuck a tutone lowball HS (Halfstein) DJ together yesterday morning. I figure a genuine 18k bezel and crown only qualifies it as a Halfstein. Here is what I used... 1...Aft/mkt case tube and standard 6mm genuine crown ($25). 2...Genuine used 18k fluted acrylic QS DJ bezel ($175). 3...Unmarked aft/mkt DJ case that accepts gen spec crystal. 4...Replica tutone 21 link bracelet (22 on genuine) claimed to have 8k center links (I seriously doubt it but I never had one wear through)...maybe brass base center links? 5...All new steel springbars and clasp hinge rivet ($2). 6...StarTime aft/mkt sapphire crystal and gasket ($30). 7...ST6D movement for now (cheap!). The 'gen spec' tutone base watch was $150 because of the '8k' center links...like I said, I doubt they are 8k but the case is gen spec as for crystal/bezel and the dial and hands are super nice. The 28mm dial was originally made with dial feet for Eta and ST6, they snip the Eta feet off when an ST6 is used. It has a gold/black date wheel with open 6/9 and correct 9mm offset. The gold bezel is made for an acrylic crystal model and it is a little bit lower than a sapphire bezel so I sanded the crystal gasket down a little to lower the crystal...it looks fine, no one would know the difference. If I put an Eta in it later, I will cut slots inside the case for case clamps with a cut-off wheel on a Dremel tool. It has a thick plastic spacer now but it is a tight fit and the movement stays in place. I checked the time on it late this am and it is running at about 20 seconds slow in 24 hours. At $400 or so It looks fine except for the 21600 tick.

Before you try to work on the movement...push the detent button and remove the stem. Then push the detent button again and insert the stem as far as it will go while slowly twisting it back and forth a few degrees and release the button. Pull out on the crown and see if it will click out into setting position. If it does, push the crown in to winding position and see if you can wind the watch. If it will set and wind...it is Ok. If not, read the paragraph below. That is a Seagull ST6D. They are easy to work on, but only after you memorize how the autowind assembly goes back together. To fix what is wrong (set lever out of position) you need to remove the aw assembly first, but there is always catch...if there is any power on the mainspring, little bitty stuff will fly everywhere when you remove the two screws that hold the aw assembly together. Anyway, what has to be done after removing the aw assembly is to remove the screw from the big wheel on the mainspring bridge and then remove the mainspring bridge. Next, take the two little gears out of the slot where the stem went through them to expose the set lever and push the set lever back into place and put it all back together. Nothin' to it. I have had so many of these cussed ST6 set levers slip by that I can reset the set lever in about 10 or 12 minutes. I am not bragging, I am complaining. Some tips on the ST6D... It has a plastic date part or two and if you try to quick set the date while it is changing, it can break a plastic part and the date will not work properly. You can let the power off the mainspring by placing a screwdriver in the screw in the center of the big wheel on the ms bridge and tightening it a tiny bit to take tension off the click spring and then move the click spring away from the ms wheel teeth while slowly letting the power off the ms by allowing the screwdriver to turn as the ms unwinds. This sounds a lot more complicated than it really is. Or you can do what I do...unscrew the screw on the big wheel and lift the wheel off and let it 'fly down' all at once. This is against all proper procedure but it is quick and easy. After all...it's a $15 movement. If you break anything, let me know and I will send the parts gratis...for some reason I have a lot of leftovers.

"ETA 2836-2 powered watch for $75? Very hard to believe." You just hit a nerve. You gotta know 'A Guy'! I got about 12 Oniss for $75 during that time along with 40 (forty) new 'swiss' Gruen 2824-2 automatics plus a dozen or so eta 2789 powered Bachshmid Steelmasters (I never heard of them either!) for $40 each plus other odds and ends with etas...one being a new steel Swiss Army with display back, goldtone dial, and eta 2824-2, another was a steel Titoni Airmaster, and I still have a maroon dial day/date 2836 powered Mido Commander that was in the load. It is new but the goofy crown (with a cork gasket!) has the stem broken off in it. One brand that comes to mind in an earlier deal was 'Jaques Prevard' and gro 'nick and dent' store return dive models with 17 jewel eta 2846 were 4 for $100. Dumazz me gave a bunch of them away. I did not count about 20 watches I got from 'Paul' a few years back when he was having a 'Crazy Sale!!' on watches with 2836 etas in them for $99 delivered. A few forum members may remember Paul's 'Crazy Sales'. The guy I got the Gruens from had a few thousand of them...brand new closeouts from a big USA retailer. This same 'Guy' used to sell common quartz store returns to street vendors in NYC for $100 for a snow shovel full. The biggest load of watches we ever got in one whack was 34,000 or 36,000, can't remember. Every time I tell a story like this someone will post a remark, send a pm etc saying they do not believe it. Anyone who knows me believes it. Just ask my wife.

I have heard a variation of this story... A friend knew a fellow from China that lived in NYC who sent him all kinds of stuff for 4 or 5 years...designer style handbags, cheapo fashion watches, jewelry etc...no replica trademark items but he could get them. My friend visited him twice in NYC and made the rounds with him to meet other dealers etc. The fellow was in his late 20's. About two years ago the fellow said he was going back to China for a month and while he was there, his 'Uncle' called and said the guy fell and broke a leg (true or false?) and would be gone about three months instead of one. He came back to NYC after a few months and then got harder and harder to get on the phone. Finally, no answers or call-backs at all. Total silence. My friend called the 'Uncle' and asked what happened. His answer was that the fellow got killed in China in a car accident (BMW this time) and he would be taking orders from now on. Later on as he got to know the Uncle, the Uncle said this is how they 'retire' from the business...claim to go DOA in an accident of some sort and break all ties with customers. If they go back in business, they start fresh with a new name etc. The 'Uncle' is still Ok in NYC and answering his phone as of last Friday...we talked to him. How did we get in contact with the first NYC guy to start with? Paid $500 for the phone number and a reference to someone who did business with him. About 7 or 8 years back we got to know 'a guy' who sold nib genuine Seiko 5, Orient, and Eta 2836-2 Oniss watches by paying up the same way (but less). Iirc the Seiko 5 were $40, the regular Orients were $35, the 50 year calendar Orients were $55, and the Oniss were $75. The Oniss were styled after the rolex prez.

"I will be hunting soon for a gen case (hard) and dial (which is not hard) and I'm hoping there are some other worthy places to check..." First off...please do not take this seriously, it's just another wacko Q&A session with myself... You did not say if you need vintage or modern parts but if you need modern parts, maybe go with bklm1234 for a complete watch or TC etc for case/bracelet parts imho. Q...Why? A...The answer is obvious...most genuine parts are too expensive now to be worth the hassle, especially cases. If you are going to blow a few thousand on a Frankenstein, just go 100% genuine and be done with it imho. The 16610 for instance... Q...If you already have a 3135 movement, why not get a TC 16610 case/bracelet, genunie dial, insert, crown and go to town? A-1...It is still a replica and never will be worth much. 2...'Everyone' wears a 16610, most of them probably replicas and no one cares. 3...You can not tell if there is an $1800 3135 or a $125 eta inside the watch. 4...You would still be trapped needing genuine parts/service when the movement goes south. 5...You will have a $3000 replica compared to an identical $1000 replica that very few can tell from genuine anyway. Q...How about vintage? A-1...Vintage models stand out from the crowd ('Three is a crowd'...and one will be wearing a 16610). 2...If you use an eta you will save a lot of $$ same as for a modern watch. 3...If you use a genuine 1520/70/75, it will always sell for a good price if you decide to dismantle the watch. You still have a parts/service problem though. 4...Vintage Frankensteins are a bit different because genuine movements are still 'affordable' and aft/mkt cases/dials are very good. Yuki etc cases and dials like IG44 etc will pass inspection except to a few dedicated rolexnuts so that's probably good enough. Q...Why would I discourage a project using genuine parts? A...Because this is a replica forum and imho the fun is in getting by with replica parts...and because I have been around genuine rolex watches a long time (since back when a new 1680 was around $350), so at today's prices I am no longer in the hunt. Q...I discourage spending $$ on Frankenstein projects although I have a few, so what's up with that? A...I already had genuine movements etc for low risk projects such as '5513' and '1680' but learned a valuable lesson when I ventured into the realm of the Frankenstein '1655' with Phong case etc and a genuine 1575 with all new genuine GMT parts. It has already cost me as much as the last '5513' and '1680' Frankenstein projects combined and is still unfinished. Q...So, what's my answer to a super nice '5513' or '1680' now? A...Go with a MBW/MBK or a 'replica' replica Polex 5513/1680 from a trusted source and Be Happy. Q...Have I followed my own advice? A...Yes. I have an MBW/MBK 1680 with eta 2846. My grandfather gave me a watch. It doesn't have any hands or numbers. He says it's very accurate. I asked him what time it was. You can guess what he told me. -- Steven Wright

"Isn't the MBW 1680 really a 5513 case?" I have one of the 'new' MBW/MBK 1680 watches and the interior of the case is a lot closer to being in spec with a genuine 5513 than a genuine 1680. I tried a 1520 with a 5513 dial in the case and it was real close. I doubt a 1680 dial and 1575 would work without some work (maybe a lot of work) because the stem will be too far toward the back of the case because of the thicker movement. For a 1680 MBW/MBK, I would stay with an Eta 2846. The MBW/MBK case has 'stainless steel' L342301 engraved on the 6 o'clock end and 'original polex design' and 1680 on the other end. The laser etched lettering inside the caseback is 'splashy' and not very good. There is a gasket groove cut in the case under the inner bezel same as later genuines. The OD of the case neck is 28.15mm same as genuine. The ID of the inner bezel is 30.15mm. The fit and finish of the case is very good.

"More thoughts about improvements?" Looking at the pictures, I noticed there is not a rivet where the clasp cap connects to the 'Z' blade like on genuines. The reason why no one uses a rivet on most of their projects is that the flip lock will not clear the rivet heads. It does not show when being worn anyway so it is not a priority. Here is something that will make a little bit of difference and is cheap and easy... Find a stainless steel double shoulder springbar that the tube part just barely fits inside the clasp, I used a 1.8mm OD center tube springbar made for a 16mm space on the last project. Cut the smaller tips of the springbar off so there is just the larger plug sticking out of the clasp on each side. Drill the clasp cap out to accept the springbar (mine needed 1.2mm holes and then I needed to ream them out just a hair). Cut the plugs down until they stick out of the clasp about 1mm +/-. Round the outer diameter of the cut ends off with Cratex, sandpaper etc and see how it fits inside the clasp. It may take a couple tries to get it just right. Polish the tips. The springbar plugs sticking out of the clasp cap will look just like a rivet. You want just enough of the springbar sticking through the clasp cap to hold it together securely...too much and it may hang up on the clasp cap. Rounding the ends off help the clasp slide by besides making the SB ends look more like a rivet. Try this on a spare cheapo bracelet first. Double shoulder springbar = the type with stepped, smooth ends, not the type with ridges on them. The ridged type will work but the plugs will be smaller and not look like a rivet (.8mm or so). A steel springbar with 1.8mm tube and 1.2mm plugs will probably also be stronger that the smaller 1.0 or 1.2mm OD rivet that comes in many bracelets.

There are many reasons why it is hard to get replicas repaired... Many shops will not work on replicas at all. Many shops will not work on replicas because they are too busy working on genuine watches. Shoddy materials and assembly in many replicas make repairs difficult. After you fix one thing, something else breaks = too many comebacks. No parts. Something else... Many replica owners can not understand why shops charge the same (or more) per hour to work on a $100 replica as working on a $1000 brand name watch. High expectations...many replica owners can not recognise junk when they see it. A harsh statement but true. Many times replacing a $20/$50 Asian movement is the best bet. I have worked on a LOT of Asian movements and it can be a waste of time. My 'Asian Movement Rule' (as applied to replicas) If it runs two weeks, it might run two years. There are quite a few exceptions of course, the Seagull ST19 for instance. They might run 50 years if taken care of (no smoking, no fried chicken).

The Goat is right. Get the hack movement because it is worth a little more at resale. Go for the no hack if you need an earlier type movement in a particular watch or just remove the hack parts from a hack movement. Always go for a 26 jewel model as the 17 jewel model has trouble when the bushings wear out on the reversers and intermediate wheel. Regular 26 jewel parts (jewels) will not work in 17 jewel autowind assemblies, you will need to order jewels by size for the 17 jewel a/w assembly and then install them using a Seitz etc jewel tool. It is not hard to do but you might practice setting jewels on something of less value first. A regular staking tool will get the old bushings out but it will be hard to set jewels to the correct depth without a micrometer dial on a jewel tool or at least one with a graduated scale. In the USA, look on dashto.com for used jewel tools etc. No worries, Tom is a first class guy.

"Personally I don't see the point of modding a replica to look like the gen. You'd rather just buy a gen." A genuine rolex watch is not much fun to some of us compared to a 'Frankenstein' or 'mod-watch' brought to life using parts searched out from here and there plus a few made or modified by ourself. Anyone with a few bucks and/or a little credit can buy a genuine rolex...even a low rent dum-dum like me. "Then you miss all the fun with the rep game." +1!

If you want a particular watch for a 'keeper' to wear daily for years, sometimes a modified replica or 'Frankenstein' can be a bargain when comparing them to today's high prices for genuines. Take the popular rolex 5513 for example... A nice 5513 will cost you $3k to $6k on average and after you wear it for a few months you may discover that it needs movement service or it fogs up and you find the case is badly corroded and needs replacing for an additional $1200 or $1800. Basically you are $crewed. You end up with $6k or $8k in a watch that sold new for $275. Or take the RWG route and buy a rolex 1520, get it serviced (hopefully all for $1000 or $1200) and all you need is a case, dial and bracelet. Top line case = around $600 (a new 'MBK' watch is a little less and has a bracelet) Dial = around $150 Bracelet = around $100 Labor if you can not do it all might run $300+/-. So you end up with a 'new' '5513' with a fresh movement for around $2500 ($1000/$1200 +/- if you use an eta movement). The good... You know what you have...no rotted out case, no ratty movement etc. It will not not leak water if all parts were checked and assembled correctly. It should run for 5 or 7 years with no trouble. It will sell complete or part out for most of your $$ back. Hard to beat. The bad... It is not all genuine and the price will not rise with genuine examples. The ugly... This 'hobby' is addictive.

"Just checked my josh 1680 ..... which is a 5513 case # L341175 and fits the clarks crystal perfectly. the outer diameter of the case neck is 28.15 mm" That's good...same as genuine. (some genuines might be off .02mm or .03mm +/-)

I have accumulated lot of generic crystals for rolex and in my experience, genuine crystals will not solve problems with out of spec replicas because the fault always lies with the case or bezel and a genuine crystal can not fix it. That being said...I try to stay away from genuine crystals on replica watches because of the cost and because if I have to make a crystal retaining ring/bezel to fit a specific watch, I will always make it so I can use a good brand of generic crystal. I have had good luck with GS crystals because they are always made to the same spec where random generics are not...random generics probably come from the lowest bidder. Sternkreuz is good too but some are out of genuine spec but this is Ok as they might by chance fit a slightly out of spec case/bezel. What I do is find the generic crystal that is the closest fit on the watch. Two areas need to be checked as stated in the posts above... 1 The case neck to crystal fit. 2 The fit of the crystal retaining ring after the crystal is mounted on the case. I have found that many crystals will be a little bit tight on the case neck and as long as the crystal is not tight enough to cause a crack, I use it as is. If I have to force the crystal over the case neck, I will go for another crystal that is a better fit. If I can not find a crystal that fits the case neck, machining the case neck is always the last resort. Crystal retaining rings are a big problem with replicas because QC is not a priority when the cases are made. Some are in spec with genuine and some are not. To make matters worse, retaining rings on watches from the same factory may not be the same from batch to batch or watch to watch. It's all hit or miss. When a crystal is just a little bit loose on the case neck, a proper retaining ring will usually solve the problem but if you do not have a retaining ring that is a real close fit, you will have to get one machined. This only applies to crystals that are just a little bit loose on the case neck, a crystal that slips from side to side with a lot of slop will usually never fit properly. This also makes it extremely hard to make a retaining bezel with the correct ID because when making retaining bezels, they are sized from smaller to larger when being machined...just the opposite of what is needed to determine the correct ID of a retaining bezel on a loose crystal. The point to what I am saying is: 1 Get a selection of different brands of crystals. 2 Buy a good digital caliper...not a $9.99 cheapo (I use a 150mm Mitutoyo Digimatic). 3 When you find a crystal that fits, always get a couple spares (genuine being an exception) if the watch is a keeper. 4 Stay out of the deep end of the pool.

Hardly ever get a comment but here are a few that got a comment or two over the years: Bulova 214 Spaceview probably because 'Nash Bridges' was on TV at the time. Tutone Hudson 'Compressor' because no one had ever seen one. Mickey Mouse dial and two hand qtz mvt mounted in a replica panerai case.

A 5513 with applied markers can not be a 'toolwatch' and here's why: You may call him Ishmael... Ishmael is cruising around 'The Trench' in his $900 million miniature atomic submarine (he won the lottery) when all of a sudden a few rivets Pop! out and the thing implodes. A submarine imploding is real bad but No Worry! because this over pressurizes the cabin and blows the top hatch open and Ishmael is blasted out like a high speed tor-pe-do. This all sounds pretty bad but No Worry! because a giant whale (even bigger than Moby's [censored]!) was taking a nap close by and when the submarine imploded, it woke the whale up and at the exact second when he looked down and opened his mouth to say "What the He..?"...Ishmael shot straight out of the submarine and down his throat. Being in a whale's belley is pretty bad but No Worry! because Ishmael always carries a 27 bulb titanium LED flashlight (he used to be a cop) and he will find a way out. After looking around in the whale's belly he decides to gather his whale belly findings in a pile and see if he might have something to help make an escape (including a like new 16610, a Norelco electric razor, and one big, round, gold ear ring). (the 16610 is nowhere near as classy as Ishmael's 5513 although the razor is pretty nice) Ishmael also found a couple emergency flares and decided to light them off and see what happens. Nothing. For a while. Then the whale Burps! like a 70mm blunderbuss going off and he shoots out of the whale's mouth straight up into the air hundreds of feet. This is scary all right but No Worry! because about this time an old biplane is flying by pulliing a ratty 'Eat at Bimbo's' banner and Ishmael lands on the top wing. Things are definitely looking up! Sorta. The extra weight causes the plane to lose altitude at a scary rate but No Worry! because the pilot turned around and headed toward land. It ain't all sunshine and ta tas though because now the plane is going into a shallow dive and headed for the rocks! No Worry! though because the plane is not far from a group of pleasure boats anchored off the shore and surely someone will see Ishmael and rescue him as soon as he Hits! the water. But he does not Hit! the water. He fell off not long after the plane made the turn. No Worry! though because he hit on a big, supertight canvas top stretched over one of the pleasure boats and was again shot up into the sky. This is really not looking a whole lot better. No Worry! because Ishmael landed right on the edge of a boat dock on a stack of puffed up rental air mattresses! Well...it's been an all around Lucky Day! for Ishmael (the submarine was insured), so...No Worries! Except for one...when Ishmael glanced down at his trusty 5513 to see what time it is, he noticed that the applied marker at 12 noon came off and was bouncing around under the crystal. A printed marker might have saved the day. All BS aside...I like your watch! ... and Nato straps.

Older Daytona spring bars... "Anyone have an idea?" I believe they are the same 19mm sb used in a rolex 1500 opd etc and if so, they are easy to find. Swiss made aft/mkt rolex replacements are just as good as oem and I seriously doubt rolex makes their own sb anyway. I used to buy oem sb when we had a parts account but there was no difference in the oem and swiss aft/mkt at all. I have a set of aft/mkt swiss submariner sb that I use for fitting hoods/bcts and they have been r/r probably 100 times and spring tension is good as new. "I don't recall daytona prices but sub springbars are around 60$ a pair." They were $4 each when we had a parts account iirc. I do not doubt for a minute that a 'friendly rolex AD' would try to get $60 for a pair though. I know I sound like a shill for Star Time Supply but I have been using their swiss made rolex type sb for 10 or 15 years with no trouble at all. sb p/n RP23-6694S for 1500/6694 etc are $1.75 each sb p/n RP23-1675SW for early submariner/GMT are $1.75 each

eta 2824/36/46 hand sizes H 150 M 90 S 25 rolex 1530/70 hand sizes H 130 M 80 S 20 Looks like the minute hand going from .8mm to .9mm would be easy but taking an hour hand from 1.30 to 1.50 might remove too much metal. You would just have to try it on a used hand and see how it goes. I have tried to remove too much metal from hour hands and wound up with only the top of the hand left and the hub gone. Without the hub (tube part of the hand) the hand will not stay straight on the hour wheel and can get knocked down onto the dial etc. Squeezing a ss hand tube from .26 to .2 might not be too hard but I never tried it. Might crimp it in a couple places but you need to smack it around a little to be sure it will stay put and not drop down onto the minute hand. "I agree that you may be better off modding the ETA parts to fit gen hands, i know it has been done before but i cant remember who did it..." You might be able to cut the eta hour wheel tube down to work but the hour wheel is pretty thin...the eta center wheel/cp tube od is about .95/.96mm and the hour wheel od is 1.5mm so there is not much metal in the hour wheel tube wall. You only need to remove .1mm of metal though. .1mm cut = .2 reduction in od.

"Ah gotcha ...haven't ever brought any of the newer MBW's so haven't had a close look. If they're as good as they used to be but with correct rehaut size and engravings that's really good news ..." I have one of the 'new' MBW/MBK signed 1680 and internally it is closer to a 5512/13 than a 1680. It came with an etaclone 2836 and the dial was rough cut (filed?) around the outside edge to fit the case. The dial looks good and the rough cut does not show so it is Ok. Fit and finish of the case is very good. A 1530/70 no date is pretty close to fitting but a 1575 date is not a very good fit (in the case I have anyway). From an earlier post (3-16-12) about this case: I removed the movement and dial from my 'new' MBW Polex 1680 and the dial window hole is 25.5mm. There is a shallow step machined under the dial seat cut back from the 25.5mm window opening to 26.25mm. The dial is between 26.0mm and 26.2mm in diameter and shows signs of having been roughly ground down to fit within this 26.25mm step. The od of the etaclone 2836-2 is 26.0mm with a 28mm brass spacer. The od of a rolex 1520/70/75 is 28.5mm. The id of the MBW case where the movement mounts is 28.7mm The rolex movement drops into the MBW case just fine. I used a 1520 with a 26mm dial and it is pretty close to fitting this particular MBW 1680 case. When you add the date works and spacer thickness of a 1575...the movement might sit too high in the case to be workable...but maybe not as I have not tried it. It looks like this case is pretty close to accepting a 1520 and genuine spec 5513 dial. I may give it a try sooner or later. Update: On 4-26-12, I put the 1520 and IG44 5513 dial in a DW 5513 mid case I had along with a home made crystal retaining bezel, 'River' sapphire Exp II caseback, aft/mkt tube, genuine crown, and domed GS PA462-67 crystal. Since I had to make the inner bezel anyway, I used the domed crystal. Also drilled the lugs,cut a gasket groove in the DW case (because the River caseback was not thick enough to accept a gasket), and smoothed the caseback center edge to resemble a vintage cb. I should have thrown the case away but I was not going to give up on it. btw: I let the cat out of the bag. The GS PA462-67 is the same $10 crystal that many people have been paying $150 for in a rolex envelope.

" I have to wonder about canon size and seconds hand though..." If the case is made for a no date movement and you convert a 1575 date movement to nd, you will need a center wheel, CP, and hour wheel...the ss pinion is the same and the tube in the ss hand comes in different lengths to accomodate nd, date, and GMT.

There were movements everywhere after the 1980 gold rush too...then gold took a dump. I bought a few gold watches while gold was down over the past 25 years (mostly vintage USA brands) and still have them because I bought them for 'watches' not scrap and they are all in good condition. One was a nos GP auto date in the original box with papers...for $150! Also a couple 14k rolex autos, one for $900 and one for $1200. I never weighed one of the rolex cases but with all the gold milled out inside the case like rolex loves to do, I doubt there is much gold in one. The heaviest gold cases are Bulova and one early quartz model I have is over 30 grams for just the case. A few others that I can remember: 18k GP no date auto chronometer for $150 18 size Waltham PW in 14k signed case of the same period, made in 1892 for $350. I bought it at a watch trading table because the 'experts' thought it was gold filled because it said 'Assayed 14k' inside the caseback and they thought it was gold filled like new 14k Hamilton 'Wesley' 14k Elgin presentation from FOMOCO to a guy who worked 1923 to 1955 He saw it all,T models, A models, B models. flathead V8 and ohv V8. It has a facsimile of Henry Ford's autograph engraved on the back. 3/4 size 14k 21j Elgin from GM Fisher Body like new 14k lady Omega on bracelet with original box for $100 like new 14k Jules Jurgensen auto (not worth much more than scrap) 14k Rado auto in square case with round dial manual wind 18k Patek 'Golden Ellipse' with bracelet for scrap and traded it even for a nib tutone rolex DJ with factory diamond dial like new 14k Hamiltom Electric Van Horn (like new because they would not run for more than a few months before going doa) That being said, I will not scrap a USA made vintage watch...Hamilton, Waltham etc but swiss watches better watch out if times get much tougher. I did scrap a gold crown that my dentist took off when I got a bridge...it was 12k and brought $185. "F u c h i n g Jawas." Hee Haw! A couple friends had 2 cycle Jawa motorcycles in the 1960's...we called them 'stomach pumps' because of the way they sounded. They had a shift lever about a foot and a half long that you flipped over for the kickstarter. Another guy had a Zundapp and he tore up an acre of corn one time when the throttle stuck wide open. He was 'trail riding' in the corn patch and had pulled the kill wire off on corn stalks so there was no way to kill it. He finally fell off and then it chased him all over the place laying on its side so he tried to pick it up and the rear wheel got a bite and it did a 200 foot wheelie with him trying to get back on before flipping over 2 or 3 times and finally stopping. He always claimed to be part American Indian so I called him Chief Corn Stalk after that.

"something like that would make me wonder...why is the date mechanism missing?" It has no date parts at all, no spacer, no nothing...may be a no date movement. "And the condition of that rotor is rough which makes you wonder if the rotor axel is ok." I see a lot of rotors like this. Maybe blistered from harsh cleaning fluid but the rest of the movement looks Ok. If it was rusty the set bridge etc would be the first to go and it looks good. Rotor axles are only $10 or $12 but the old one has to be cut out from the top in a lathe (cut the cap off) and not knocked out from the bottom side like jiffy lube repair guys do it. The movement will part out for close to $1000 because as rolex says "No Parts For You!"

From a post I made a while back: "After looking at the genuine 5512 case with the 26.13 dial window in the post above, I wondered how this could work with a 26mm dial. SInce I have a DW 5513 case that I got from a member (we both thought the dial window was too big), I put the 26mm IG44 5513 dial on a 1520 and mounted it in the DW case with a 26.0mm dial opening. It works fine." How can it work with the dial window as big as the dial? The movement is a precision fit in the case and this holds it all in place. The dial might be almost the same size as the dial window but the movement is not...and it is clamped against the front of the case. This is probably why a 26mm dial in a case with a 26mm dial opening using an eta movement and spacer does not work out every time...there is too much slop in the fit and the movement and dial will not stay centered." I am getting closer to putting this thing together and it looks like it might benefit from a spacer behind the dial that butts against the back side of the dial window. I am not to this point yet though. Does anyone know the exact size of the dial window opening in a genuine 5513 case? Is it 26.13 +/- like the 5512 in the "Same old question...vintage Rolex wise" post? My DW 5513 is 25.98mm. Does anyone know the exact size of a genuine 5513 dial? My IG44 dial is (almost) exactly 26mm. Q...Why does it take me so long to complete a simple project like this? A...Just Because... Because I bought the case without the caseback and used a caseback from an old 'River' sapphire Exp II and had to round the back edges off to make it look more 'vintage'. Because the gasket is in the 5513 caseback and Because I did not have a proper caseback...I had to machine a gasket groove in the DW 5513 case. Why? Because the River caseback is too thin where a gasket should go so I had to cut a gasket groove in the case (grind a cutter bit, mount the case in the lathe, cut a little, measure, cut a little, measure...). All Because the crystal was not gen spec. And Because the bezel ring that holds the crystal to the case is not gen spec either. Because of this...I had to make another crystal retaining bezel. Because this @&$**$%# thing has a 'paperclip' bezel, the crystal retaining bezel had to have a little bitty lip machined on top at precisely the right spot and size...plus it had to be just so tall and exactly right on the id, plus a bevel to allow the bezel spring to slip over it (ask JMB about these projects). Because I did not want to screw up and have to start over...the bezel ring was slow work (for me anyway). What's next? Drill the lugs out to 1.3mm. Figure out how to make the gen spec aft/mkt case tube seal up to the case. What's wrong with the case/tube junction? The groove cut into the case just ahead of the case tube threads is too small for a gen spec gasket. How to fix it? Get a cutter and see if I can cut it exactly where it needs to be in the milling machine...without screwing up the case. But I do not have the cutter or want to take a chance on screwing up the case. What will I do? Probably cut the case tube to fit the groove in the case. Nothing is easy.

"3k for just the movement??? no way" I have $3k in the complete project...case, mvt, GMT parts, dial, hands, bracelet, crown etc.

I bought all the parts for a '1655' a couple years ago... A...1575 mvt with all (new) genuine parts to convert it to 1575GMT B...case, dial, hands etc from RWG member (probably Phong case and dial) I have not put it together yet. I will say this... Today's prices for a complete 1575 GMT or a good condition 1575 and all genuine GMT parts to convert it to a GMT plus case/dial/hands might change your mind real quick (1575GMT calendar spacers now go for $300 to $500 if you can find one). I quit at $3000US. If I was doing it over...I would not do it at all. Something else... There is no difference at all in an original 1575GMT and a 1575 converted to GMT using all genuine parts so 100% genuine conversions are Ok. Quickie cheapo 1575GMT conversions using an aft/mkt 24 hour wheel etc are no good. You have been warned...

"Hmmm, 1980 you say?" In 1980 I was riding a tricked out '79 Suzuki GS1000N across 'The Dragon' a time or two a week. I wore out so many tires that I bought a Coats 220 MC tire changer. (I started riding The Dragon in 1963 on a Ducati 250 Monza, a long time before it was called The Dragon) In 1970 I was riding a 1948 HD Panhead (first year for the Pan!). Did a lot of walking and bumming rides too. In 1960 I was riding an Allstate (Puch) 125. In 1950 I was riding a tricycle. Got my first good watch in the late 1960's...Hamilton 992B. Before that it was mostly 'dollar biscuit' pocket watches. Looking back...I should have stuck with dollar biscuits and 992 Hamiltons.