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automatico

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  1. Mitch... You can go to a search site (I use Bing a lot) and type in what you want to know and many times an RWG thread will come up in the search. I do this a lot to keep from using the RWG search.
  2. "Updated with Yuki dial and a rep 93150, 580 endlinks and a GMT/explorer fliplock clasp (i.e., without diver's extension)." I bought an R427xxx 16750 5-20-91 ($1350) and it came with a 93150 oyster bracelet with full length flip lock clasp cap but without the dive extension. I sold the timehead and still have the bracelet but had it converted to tutone by MSB Watches in Miami FL 20+ years ago. The watch was all original when I got it, same as when purchased new. If I run across the bracelet in the next few days I will post the hood reference and clasp numbers on this thread. "I can't remember when Rolex added Date to the Oyster Perpetual 16750 dial, but it was somewhere in the 80s I would think." Iirc it was somewhere around the time they went from printed markers to applied markers but my guess is it was not across the complete line in one whack. Here is a 16750 with applied markers and OP only, without the Date: https://www.bobswatches.com/preowned-rolex-gmt-master-16750-black-dial.html May 20, 1991 Monday, under the sign of Taurus. The US president was George H. W. Bush (Republican). Famous people born on this day include Bastian Baker and Robby Ayala. In this week of May people in US were listening to I Don't Wanna Cry by Mariah Carey. In UK The Shoop Shoop Song (It's In His Kiss) by Cher was in the top 5 hits. City Slickers, directed by Ron Underwood, was one of the most viewed movies released in 1991 while As The Crow Flies by Jeffrey Archer was one of the best selling books. On TV people were watching All Good Things. If you liked videogames you were probably playing Arcus Odyssey or The Atlas. US $100 on 5-20-91 = $190 today. List price for rolex 16750 was about $2750.
  3. Imho alligoat's advice is very good...buy a low $$ model and see how you like it. I have one with a DG3804 and it runs fine and the adjustable 24H hand has not caused any trouble but I set it at GMT and leave it alone. Mine came with aged dial markers and hands with an oyster bracelet and overall it looks pretty good. The movement is held in place by case clamps and screws (like the one in the link) and a genuine 1655/1675 crystal will fit if a replacement is ever needed. Also have an ongoing 1655 project with a Phong case and rlx 1575 movement but it has been a real hassle and I do not recommend a project like this unless you can do it yourself to save $$ and control the outcome. You can read about the 1655 project in the rlx sticky section: "Building an MBW Sub + 'shortcut' rlx 1560/70 GMT conversions..." I have abandoned the project for now until I can find a case other than the Phong case because I do not want to use the 'shortcut' GMT conversion in a $1500 case even though I did not pay a whole lot for the case. The cartel case mentioned in the sticky was the case from my DG3804 watch, the dial opening in the case is just too big for an oem spec dial. Have a 1655 with swiss eta 2836 from Abay in 2005 or so and it used a 1680 case and is not really very accurate to an original model...the cutout for the crown is too big and the outer tips of the crown guards are not too good. There used to be a few of them around but I have not seen one for sale in years. The swiss eta GMT has a non adjustable Asian 24 hour conversion and they were basically trouble free but the 2836 has the wrong beat rate compared to a vintage rlx. As for genuine 1655/1675 watches and parts...the movement, all GMT parts, crystals, and bracelets will interchange. The cases, dials, hands, and crowns are different...1655 has a 6.0mm crown, 1675 has a 5.3mm crown.
  4. "Well i’m wondering what will be my next Franken... Patek nautilis 5711 Panerai bronze submersible Ap Royal oak off shore chrono Max € for project 3000€." Older model APRO and Pat Naut used JLC movements and the movements can be found now and then but prices have risen drastically because repairers need them for parts, the movements are not known for being overly durable. I like APRO replicas with solid case backs and maybe a Miyota 9015 movement...no clonejunk movements. I am really not much of a Patek fan. That being said, I always end up with rlx projects because the rlx replica parts supply is relatively endless. Not so for AP, PP, Pan etc. Try to find a Naut crystal or crown for example. Rolex Frankenstein replicas put you in the Frankenstein mainstream. AP, PP etc Frankenstein replicas put you on the Frankenstein island. Imho. Two of my favorite rlx replica projects are the 1016 and 5500/1002 Explorers. They are easy to put together (no bezel/crystal/CG hassles) and every other guy you see does not have one on. The 'Explorers' are a bit small for many though. The last 1002 I bought a few years back cost $650 and I thought it was too much at the time but it had no case corrosion. A surprise (to me)...I just now looked on eBay and 1002 models are priced $2000 to $3000 and up. Shazam! I remember when they were less than $250 new...but I made only $65 a week back then and had a '57 Chevy Bel-Air to support. (The ''57 Chevy...2DHT, canary yellow, black r/p interior, 327/365, Wonderbar radio, factory tinted glass, Muncie M20/Hurst shifter, 370 Posi, American 200S wheels etc. No rust. Friend of mine paid $37K for one a few months ago and drove 1700 miles round trip to pick it up. Shazam! again.)
  5. "These watches are real art pieces from an era when you didn't see the crowd of divers that flood the market today, at prices that are absolutely out of this world." True. I have a few 1960s/1970s dive watches that I held on to over the years...Bulova Devil Divers (auto and Accutron), Caravelle manual wind and auto, Aquadive, Zodiac Sea Wolf, Benrus Citation, Hamilton two crown compressor, Citizen 62-6198, Wittnauer etc and imho they out class what is available today. Out class, not out perform of course. Benrus Citation: https://gearpatrol.com/2019/08/02/found-benrus-vintage-dive-watches/ Citizen 62-6198: https://sweep-hand.org/2012/11/13/this-weeks-featured-watch-43-62-6198-150m-diver/ Similar Wittnauer:
  6. Looks good! "My only doubt is the rivet bracelet..." Maybe go with a later model hollow mid link/solid outer link bracelet to go with the applied marker dial. I have an MBK 5513 and tried a rivet oyster and it just did not suit me (besides pulling hair). I ended up with a 'Mary' folded oyster and it has been fine except I had to change the last center links where they connect to the watch because they were the wrong type. They were the.'figure 8' style like found on many rivet bracelets so I changed over to the hollow oval type.
  7. "Only way around it would be to swap in a no date setting lever (if it exists?)" ETA no date 2801-2 parts might fit. https://www.eta.ch/en/our-products/mechanical-movements/mecaline/eta-mecaline-2801-2
  8. "It is a triplock 8mm crown." I was surprised because I figured it was a regular 7mm submariner crown. I read 4 or 5 reviews on the watch before posting anything and no one mentioned the crown other than it was a screw down crown. "Where can I find an aftermarket one with the tube?" No idea unless one of the TDs can supply them.
  9. "What size crown does deepsea sea dweller use?"
  10. "I’m looking for Hr = 1.34mm, Min = 0.835mm, sec = 0,22mm." Here are some hand sizes for common rolex movements: 1210/1215 manual wind 1.30 x 0.85 x 0.20mm 1530/1570 auto 1.20 x 0.80 x 0.20mm 3035/3135 auto 1.40 x 0.95 x 0.22mm Looks like the 1210/1215 is close and reference 6694 models with 1210/1215 were 34mm same as a rolex 15000 oys perp date model. The 1530/1570 minute hand is close too. It is easier to slightly enlarge a hand hole than shrink it down. You can broach the hole out a little bit if needed but closing a hand hole can be tricky. If there is a slight hub on the bottom side of the hand, I close the hole by putting the hub in the proper 'WW' lathe collet and squeeze it down a bit with the draw bar wheel. Without a lathe and proper collets you can use a pin vise being careful not to squeeze it down too much. Try to use a pin vise that is nearly closed when clamped over the hand hub because it can make 'flutes' (ripples) on the hub if the jaws are too far apart. If you go with a pin vise, practice on a few cheapo quartz hands first. You can make a few 'broaches' by filing 3 or 4 flats on a tapered needle etc. You can rough cut the broach with a miniature file and finish it up with fine sandpaper on a flat surface. Sweep second hands can be a pain if the tube needs to be enlarged because the tiny broaches for the job break very easily. Something else...be careful that the sweep second hand is not too tight on the sweep second pinion because it can cause damage to the ss pinion or break a jewel if there is one at the bottom. Another problem if the second hand is too tight is the hand can pull off over the center tube rivet when removing it. It is very hard to get the hand back on the tube and still have it look good. I have pressed sweep second hands down over a pin to enlarge the hole but I remove the hand with brass tweezers by pushing the hand off the pin from the bottom side. It's all easier than it sounds with a bit of practice, believe it or not. One of these makes it even easier:
  11. The 3135 rotor axle is staked in the weight on the bottom side by using a special staking punch in a staking tool. The 3135 rotor axle/weight is held in the autowind assembly by a clip that can be removed from the top side with the a/w assembly on or off the movement. You can see the clip through a slot in the top of the a/w plate. All 15xx and 30xx movements use basically the same method but the rotor axles and staking tool punches are different. Only the 3135/3130 axle/weight can be r/r without removing the a/w assembly from the movement. The slot is at 12 high: Pic from eBay item number 123921613024 Do not know exactly what he tool is to be used for but if it is made like a 'snapping' center punch, it may be used to peen holes in main plates and various other areas to tighten bushings etc with the sharpened end out. Most watch whittlers use a three corner punch in a staking tool to peen plates etc so they can control the force of the blow to the tool. They put a few dents a short distance from the hole and the dent distorts the area enough to in effect, shrink the hole. Purists frown on this practice of course but it is common going back hundreds of years. I have seen quite a few 'peened' main plates on rlx 15xx where the mainspring arbor has worn the hole in the main plate our of round from lack of service. Three or four dents are a lot cheaper than a main plate, especially today. Someone wanting a better fix could make a brass bushing, enlarge the original hole, press the bushing in the plate, and broach it to size. A lot of work but it might make the Purists less miserable.
  12. I am adding this post on 'shortcut' GMT conversions for rlx 1560/70 movements so it will not get buried in regular posts: First posted Thursday at 04:50 PM I've had a 'J$Wcom' 1655 case for 5 or 7 years that I got from a member but never used because I did not want to use my genuine GMT parts to convert a regular 1570/5 rlx date movement to GMT for a project as the GMT parts are getting expensive and very hard to get. Also have a 'shortcut' GMT conversion that came with the case. The shortcut conversion gets a bad rap (usually because it deserves it) but there is more than one version of the conversion. The one I have is well made and has a finely finished minute wheel and 24 hour drive wheel with very good 24 hour wheel making it worth the trouble to give it a try. The major defect with these conversions is the poorly fitting 24 hour wheel that is a sloppy fit over the original 12 hour wheel causing the 24H wheel to slip on the minute wheel drive gear or bind up and stall the movement. The other defect is these conversions were used with regular 12 hour date movement center wheel/CP and hour wheel jamming the 12H hand down too close to the 24H hand with very little clearance. The 24H hand is not too close to the dial because the 24H wheel tube is oem spec but the original 15xx date 12H wheel and CP are too short. I made a bushing out of a stainless spring bar barrel to take up the slack between the 24H wheel ID and 12H wheel OD in addition to using a genuine 1570/75 GMT center wheel/CP/hour wheel combo to allow room for the 12H and minute hands. By using these genuine GMT parts, no one can tell it is a shortcut conversion when looking at it with the dial installed. Another hassle with these things (besides locating/affording GMT parts) is getting the 24H hand, 12H hand, and date flip to all work together at 12 midnight. It is bad enough to get them all to correspond mechanically but it has the added problem of the date not flipping at the exact same time every night because although the date flip depends on 'precise' gearing to keep it on time, it also depends on spring tension and always will have a small amount of 'gear slack'. You can install the hands at 12 midnight by slowly running the time around with the crown until the date flips and line them all up but after it runs 24 hours and all comes together again at 12 midnight...the date can flip early or late as much as 5 or 6 minutes. Why? Because of slack in the wheels and the 'date flipper' spring. You just have to get it as close as you can and live with it. There is also a difference between letting it run until the date flips to install the hands and running the hands around with the crown until it flips. There can be a minute of two (maybe more) difference between the two methods. I usually let them run until the date flips after setting the hands at 11pm or a little later by the crown. This shortcut conversion movement has been running for a week now with no trouble and I will report on it again in a few months. The 12/24 hour hand alignment is Ok and the date flips within 2 or 3 minutes...close enough for me. Miscellaneous: All the standard 1575 date calendar parts and calendar disc spacer were used with this conversion. The standard calendar disc spacer is .8mm thick and a GMT spacer is 1.0mm thick. A 1565/70/75 date movement is 6.3mm thick and a 1565/75 GMT is 6.5mm thick with all the difference being above the stem centerline. A genuine 1655 dial is 27.3mm in diameter. Ex II 1655 and GMT 1675 movements are identical. The thicker GMT calendar disc spacer is not needed as the shortcut GMT conversion does not take up any additional space between the movement and dial because the longer 24H and 12H wheel tubes and CP pass through the dial center hole. A dial washer was used to keep the 24H wheel in mesh. The same 1570/5 'date flipper' is also used and this saves from having to use the high $$ oem GMT date flipper and calendar disc spacer. The GMT calendar disc spacer (p/n 8037/7957 plus a few others) and calendar wheel aka 'date flipper' (p/n 8034) are near impossible to find today. Saw a used one for $965 on eBay a while back, # 264511039148. The special calendar wheel nut (p/n 8035) is also very hard to find. The modified minute wheel on this particular kit has an 'axle' pressed in the minute wheel with the 24 hour drive gear made on the top of the axle so the original minute wheel stud (p/n 1888-1) has to be removed from the main plate (press fit). Now the 'axle' runs in the main plate and this should work Ok as it is a low stress part...time will tell. The minute wheel axle is lubed with KT22 grease where it turns in the main plate. When looking for parts for rlx 1570/5 GMT movements, look for 1565 GMT parts because the 1565 was the first 15xx GMT movement and will include all the GMT parts. There is no difference between any 1565/70/75 date movement and a 1560/1570/75 GMT movement except for the beat rate and GMT parts...the base movement is exactly the same. The 1565GMT runs at 18000 bph and the 1575GMT runs at 19800 bph. The 1655 and 1675 GMT use the same crystal, 25-116. The 1675 GMT uses a 5.3mm crown and the 1655 uses a 6.0mm crown. A 1655 case is slightly thicker than a 1675 GMT but a replica GMT etc case can sometimes be used with a 116 crystal and oem spec aftmkt bezel to make a pretty good 1655 as long as the dial will fit and the crown guards look Ok. Crown guards are a common defect with replica 1675 GMT because they are usually cut for 6.0 or 7.0mm crowns and are not thick enough when looking at them from the front of the case. A not so good 1675 GMT case might make a pretty good 1655 case except for maybe being too thin and few will notice this small detail. Every genuine 1655 I have seen had a hack movement...my project 1655 does not hack because the movement is older. Afaik the first hack movements were hit or miss in the late 1960s and 'officially' introduced in 1972. The first 1655 was around 1971. Many may disagree as usual. Where can you get a 'shortcut' GMT kit? I do not know and if anyone finds them please put it on here. What have I learned? Imho a 'freshened' swiss ETA 2846 with a China non adjustable 24H hand GMT conversion is a better $$ choice for most 1655/1675 projects. Budget 1655/1675 projects can get by with a DG 3804 as long as it is clean and has been properly oiled. I stuck this one together because I already had a 1570/75 movement and the shortcut conversion. 'Freshened' = cleaned, oiled, and maybe a mainspring. Pic of the $965 calendar wheel aka 'date flipper' p/n 8034 on eBay. Note the extra set of teeth to drive the 24H wheel, some sellers will claim a regular date flipper is for a GMT, the same claim is often made for regular 'date only' calendar disc spacers. https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Rolex-GMT-Master-1675-Explorer-II-1655-Date-Wheel-Mounted-1570-RARE-Part/264511039148?hash=item3d961626ac:g:WQUAAOSwoGVds1HR A low grade GMT conversion, note the loose 24H wheel. Mine was not this bad at all. The lower picture is a correct GMT movement. https://rwg.cc/topic/141303-cal-1570-gmt-tell-me-if-i-m-wrong/ Update 11-9-19: I have a good cartel '1655' case but the rlx 15xx GMT movement will not fit in it because the OD of the movement is 28.5mm and the ID of the case is 28.3mm. I am going to machine the ID of the case and see if the rlx movement will fit to keep from using the J$Wcom case. I'll report on it later. 11-14-19: No go. The oem spec dial (27.3mm) just barely hangs in the case with the dial centered, the only thing keeping the movement/dial in place and preventing it from almost passing through the front of the case is the 28.5mm wide ridge on the movement.
  13. I've had a 'J$Wcom' 1655 case for 5 or 7 years that I got from a member but never used because I did not want to use my genuine GMT parts to convert a regular 1570/5 rlx date movement to GMT for a project as the GMT parts are getting expensive and very hard to get. Also have a 'shortcut' GMT conversion that came with the case. The shortcut conversion gets a bad rap (usually because it deserves it) but there is more than one version of the conversion. The one I have is well made and has a finely finished minute wheel and 24 hour drive wheel with very good 24 hour wheel making it worth the trouble to give it a try. The major defect with these conversions is the poorly fitting 24 hour wheel that is a sloppy fit over the original 12 hour wheel causing the 24H wheel to slip on the minute wheel drive gear or bind up and stall the movement. The other defect is these conversions were used with regular 12 hour date movement center wheel/CP and hour wheel jamming the 12H hand down too close to the 24H hand with very little clearance. The 24H hand is not too close to the dial because the 24H wheel tube is oem spec but the original 15xx date 12H wheel and CP are too short. I made a bushing out of a stainless spring bar barrel to take up the slack between the 24H wheel ID and 12H wheel OD in addition to using a genuine 1570/75 GMT center wheel/CP/hour wheel combo to allow room for the 12H and minute hands. By using these genuine GMT parts, no one can tell it is a shortcut conversion when looking at it with the dial installed. Another hassle with these things (besides locating/affording GMT parts) is getting the 24H hand, 12H hand, and date flip to all work together at 12 midnight. It is bad enough to get them all to correspond mechanically but it has the added problem of the date not flipping at the exact same time every night because although the date flip depends on 'precise' gearing to keep it on time, it also depends on spring tension and always will have a small amount of 'gear slack'. You can install the hands at 12 midnight by slowly running the time around with the crown until the date flips and line them all up but after it runs 24 hours and all comes together again at 12 midnight...the date can flip early or late as much as 5 or 6 minutes. Why? Because of slack in the wheels and the 'date flipper' spring. You just have to get it as close as you can and live with it. There is also a difference between letting it run until the date flips to install the hands and running the hands around with the crown until it flips. There can be a minute of two (maybe more) difference between the two methods. I usually let them run until the date flips after setting the hands at 11pm or a little later by the crown. This shortcut conversion movement has been running for a week now with no trouble and I will report on it again in a few months. The 12/24 hour hand alignment is Ok and the date flips within 2 or 3 minutes...close enough for me. Miscellaneous: All the standard 1575 date calendar parts and calendar disc spacer were used with this conversion. The standard calendar disc spacer is .8mm thick and a GMT spacer is 1.0mm thick. A 1565/70/75 date movement is 6.3mm thick and a 1565/75 GMT is 6.5mm thick with all the difference being above the stem centerline. A genuine 1655 dial is 27.3mm in diameter. Ex II 1655 and GMT 1675 movements are identical. The thicker GMT calendar disc spacer is not needed as the shortcut GMT conversion does not take up any additional space between the movement and dial because the longer 24H and 12H wheel tubes and CP pass through the dial center hole. A dial washer was used to keep the 24H wheel in mesh. The same 1570/5 'date flipper' is also used and this saves from having to use the high $$ oem GMT date flipper and calendar disc spacer. The GMT calendar disc spacer (p/n 8037/7957 plus a few others) and calendar wheel aka 'date flipper' (p/n 8034) are near impossible to find today. Saw a used one for $965 on eBay a while back, # 264511039148. The special calendar wheel nut (p/n 8035) is also very hard to find. The modified minute wheel on this particular kit has an 'axle' pressed in the minute wheel with the 24 hour drive gear made on the top of the axle so the original minute wheel stud (p/n 1888-1) has to be removed from the main plate (press fit). Now the 'axle' runs in the main plate and this should work Ok as it is a low stress part...time will tell. The minute wheel axle is lubed with KT22 grease where it turns in the main plate. When looking for parts for rlx 1570/5 GMT movements, look for 1565 GMT parts because the 1565 was the first 15xx GMT movement and will include all the GMT parts. There is no difference between any 1565/70/75 date movement and a 1560/1570/75 GMT movement except for the beat rate and GMT parts...the base movement is exactly the same. The 1565GMT runs at 18000 bph and the 1575GMT runs at 19800 bph. The 1655 and 1675 GMT use the same crystal, 25-116. The 1675 GMT uses a 5.3mm crown and the 1655 uses a 6.0mm crown. A 1655 case is slightly thicker than a 1675 GMT but a replica GMT etc case can sometimes be used with a 116 crystal and oem spec aftmkt bezel to make a pretty good 1655 as long as the dial will fit and the crown guards look Ok. Crown guards are a common defect with replica 1675 GMT because they are usually cut for 6.0 or 7.0mm crowns and are not thick enough when looking at them from the front of the case. A not so good 1675 GMT case might make a pretty good 1655 case except for maybe being too thin and few will notice this small detail. Every genuine 1655 I have seen had a hack movement...my project 1655 does not hack because the movement is older. Afaik the first hack movements were hit or miss in the late 1960s and 'officially' introduced in 1972. The first 1655 was around 1971. Many may disagree as usual. Where can you get a 'shortcut' GMT kit? I do not know and if anyone finds them please put it on here. What have I learned? Imho a 'freshened' swiss ETA 2846 with a China non adjustable 24H hand GMT conversion is a better $$ choice for most 1655/1675 projects. Budget 1655/1675 projects can get by with a DG 3804 as long as it is clean and has been properly oiled. I stuck this one together because I already had a 1570/75 movement and the shortcut conversion. 'Freshened' = cleaned, oiled, and maybe a mainspring. Pic of the $965 calendar wheel aka 'date flipper' p/n 8034 on eBay. Note the extra set of teeth to drive the 24H wheel, some sellers will claim a regular date flipper is for a GMT, the same claim is often made for regular 'date only' calendar disc spacers. https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Rolex-GMT-Master-1675-Explorer-II-1655-Date-Wheel-Mounted-1570-RARE-Part/264511039148?hash=item3d961626ac:g:WQUAAOSwoGVds1HR A low grade GMT conversion, note the loose 24H wheel. Mine was not this bad at all. The lower picture is a correct GMT movement. https://rwg.cc/topic/141303-cal-1570-gmt-tell-me-if-i-m-wrong/ Here is a movement being sold as a GMT that is not even a date movement much less a GMT and overpriced by $1200 or $1500: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-ROLEX-AUTOMATIC-MOVEMENT-Ref-1570-for-EXPLORER-II-1655-GMT-MASTER-1675/273552338514?hash=item3fb0fd6e52:g:waQAAOSwuJRb5f2p Hope the buyer reads the fine print... "GENUINE ROLEX GMT MASTER MOVEMENT Ref. 1570 for EXPLORER II 1655, and GMT MASTER 1675*. *This IS the correct movement for the GMT MASTER, but needs additional parts to function as such. Sold as Is."
  14. Bought a new 16610 in August 1994 for $2065. Easy to get back then. Flipped it. Bought a new GMT II 16760 in 1988 for $1465 and a white dial Ex II around the same time for about the same price. Sold the GMT in 1994, never wore it. Traded the Ex II away. Many of the watch traders I knew back then had a box of new or like new rlx watches for sale. It was a lot easier to sell/trade watches back then...no internet educated 'idiot experts' to deal with. Many of them today can recite every technical detail about the watch but can not figure out how to unscrew the crown.
  15. "...the 1030 movement works well! But I still worry about how to find parts when it has problem…" One thing that may cause trouble and is hard to find is the winding rotor bearing p/n 7004. You may never need it but if you find a new one at a fair price, try to get it. You will not have any trouble reselling it if you do not need it. A fair price is $50 to $90 USD or so imho. These movements usually do not have many problems but if you want to gather up spare parts...look for a rough watch with one in it at a low price...or you might find parts that a retired watch repair guy has from back when they were popular. Ask around...a friend had a small box of old rlx parts and he gave them to me when I asked if he had any parts. You never know what you might find. Stay away from rusty movements unless they set, wind, and still run...or are free.
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