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automatico

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automatico last won the day on October 3 2018

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  1. automatico

    Make a guess...

    There is a very ratty 1960 rlx 'gilt' 1016 for sale on eBay and it is over $3000 USD on 2-16 with 48 bids and 9 days to go. Anyone want to guess how much it goes for? My guess is $11255 USD. eBay item number 333075830879 The guesstimate winner gets a bottle of Jack Daniels at their own expense.
  2. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    "So this movement should be an Unitas right?" Yes, it is a 6431-6445. It has both numbers stamped on it. They have a very good reputation and were put in a lot of Swiss pocket watches in the 1960s and 1970s. It is a little bit bigger than the UT/ETA 6497/6498. UT 6431-6445 18.5'' Dm= 41.0mm, Do= 41.7mm, 4.7mm thick ETA/UT 6497/6498 16.5''' Dm= 36.6mm, Do= 37.2mm, 4.5mm thick (from Ranfft website)
  3. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    "Please don't do that. Just box the totality of your stuff and mail it to me. I'll be honoured to keep a vigilant eye on it for you. This way you will never loose anything ever again." Ha! You never know what might happen. I found the missing clutch wheel. I dropped a watch strap on the floor of my 'shop' and when I picked it up the clutch wheel was right beside it. Very strange, I had gone over the floor with a bright light and powerful magnet the day before. The Baylor pocket watch with UT 6431-6445 is running again. I bought it new in June 1977 at Zale Jewelers and it stopped running 15 or 20 years ago...old oil gummed it up.
  4. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    "I've built one Day-Date from the rep case and the 2834 with plastic spacer for day wheel fit perfectly." Thanks, mystery solved. That's why the dial opening is so big...2834 and DD dial. Hope to get to the '1016' soon but I keep misplacing (losing) parts on my ongoing projects. Today it's a mia clutch wheel from a 1970s Unitas 6431-6445 powered pocket watch. Looks like I am going to start working in a wash tub. Heard about an old watch guy who used to take pocket watches apart on a little bench down in a high sided 4 claw leg bath tub. ...with a plug in the drain of course.
  5. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    "You CAN shave down a caseback. I did that on my Daytona and slimmed it down about 2 mm (1.5 at the least)." For my JMB 'toot' case/Raff dial '1016' project, I dug out two Monarch Polfy case backs and one has a lower profile than usual and fits the toot case. I will have to cut the OD down a little bit where it contacts the case back gasket though. I do not know yet if the project will need a 2824/2846 combo movement or not. If it is a DD case it might have been made for a 2834 to begin with so a 2836 with 2846 running gear may work instead of a 2824 with 2846 running gear. I will probably go with the thinner Monarch Polfy case back. One Monarch Polfy case back is 4.15mm thick overall (counting threads) and the other is 4.6mm thick overall. The toot flat back is only 3.3mm thick overall but it is the wrong profile for a rlx type case. Btw, I measured the thickness of the Monarch Polfy case backs...one is .9mm thick in the center and the other is .7mm thick, not much room for thinning them down. The reptoot case back is .9mm thick and a genuine 16000 case back is .9mm thick. "Was that for a Date-Day? They do have a pretty flat back on them..." It should/could be a DD case and the case back has a large flat area, quite a bit different from a rlx. It has reference number 75033 on the case but a DD of this type was a 76200, could not find a 75033...it does have 76200 inside the flat toot case back though. Being a DD it should have had a 2834 (clone?) to begin with so a 2836 base movement may work. I'll know more as it progresses but I have a few projects ahead of it. I will post what I find out on this thread. With a tight fitting movement spacer to keep the dial centered it should make a very good '1016'. Time will tell.
  6. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    Update on: "Next Eta '1016' project... I have a 36mm 'tooter' case that I got from JMB a few years ago and it is close to the profile of a 1016. There is always a catch or two...the case will only accept a 2824 because of the stem location and low profile case back, the dial needs to be about 1mm larger than oem because the dial seat is 28.9mm and the opening is 28.0mm etc, etc. (I also have a 34mm 'toot' case and it is made the same way...for a 2824 or you could go with a 2801 manual wind. I doubt I would go to the trouble to put a 2824/2846 combo movement together just to lower the beat rate.) The fix is a 28.9/29.0mm'1016' dial from Raffles and I'll need to stick another 2824/2846 combo movement together for it. I am guessing the ID of the dial seat will need to be cut about .1mm so the dial will go all the way down but this should be Ok because the threads and the rest of the inside of the case is a little bit bigger than 29.0mm so the dial will go into the case except for maybe the dial seat. The case also has a groove cut in it for case clamps. Raff gives two sizes for the dial...28.9mm and 29.0mm but I have not measured it yet. The lugs have holes drilled all the way through and they are centered in the lugs so they can be drilled out to 1.25/1.3mm. The case neck is the same size as a 1016 but the bezel ID will need to be enlarged for a T22 crystal. The case back has a lower profile than the JMB '1016' case (16200 replica base) that I have." Got the dial and it measures 28.5mm. Raff website says: "Vintage Explorer Dial Marked Rolex Symbol for DG ETA MIYOTA Dial 29mm". Maybe .5mm does not sound like much but it can be the difference between the dial working in the case or not. Since the dial opening in the case is 28mm (27.97 - 28.03mm) the dial just barely hangs inside the case. A spacer would need to be made with almost no clearance between the movement and case so the dial would remain centered...another hassle. Otoh the dial looks very good. So...No Go. For now.
  7. automatico

    Rep 16200 case is the ultimate workhorse case

    "My assumption was that 3035/3055/3075 were based on the 3000. If that’s the case, are we even sure a ref 162xx case can house your movement?" The 3035/55/75 came first (around 1977) and were high grade chronometer movements from day one. The cal 3000 is a cheapo rendition of a 3035 with a flat hairspring and no date but when they were used in the explorer they ran them through the COSC test. Imho they were trying to move up$cale (28.8k/sapphire) by going downscale (stripped down cheapo movement). For anyone who has not read the 14270 Explorer Exposure: http://www.timezone.com/2002/09/16/the-rolex-explorer-ref-14270-part-1/ http://www.timezone.com/2002/09/16/the-rolex-explorer-ref-14270-part-2/
  8. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    Lo' Thanks for the compliment! I got the Omega 752 running today but have not put the date works or dial on it yet and I need to stick the peeling clearcoat down somehow. In reality it is a $200/250 watch after all the work but I do not want to quit on it. After it is finished I have a tonneau shaped gold cap Omega Constellation to c/o while Omegas are on my mind. Next is a 14k Rado automatic and an old military Bulova with a 10AK, then some of the rolex projects. After I knock a few out I will try to start looking for a high quality '1016' case. Next Eta '1016' project... I have a 36mm 'tooter' case that I got from JMB a few years ago and it is close to the profile of a 1016. There is always a catch or two...the case will only accept a 2824 because of the stem location and low profile case back, the dial needs to be about 1mm larger than oem because the dial seat is 28.9mm and the opening is 28.0mm etc, etc. (I also have a 34mm 'toot' case and it is made the same way...for a 2824 or you could go with a 2801 manual wind. I doubt I would go to the trouble to put a 2824/2846 combo movement together just to lower the beat rate.) The fix is a 28.9/29.0mm'1016' dial from Raffles and I'll need to stick another 2824/2846 combo movement together for it. I am guessing the ID of the dial seat will need to be cut about .1mm so the dial will go all the way down but this should be Ok because the threads and the rest of the inside of the case is a little bit bigger than 29.0mm so the dial will go into the case except for maybe the dial seat. The case also has a groove cut in it for case clamps. Raff gives two sizes for the dial...28.9mm and 29.0mm but I have not measured it yet. The lugs have holes drilled all the way through and they are centered in the lugs so they can be drilled out to 1.25/1.3mm. The case neck is the same size as a 1016 but the bezel ID will need to be enlarged for a T22 crystal. The case back has a lower profile than the JMB '1016' case (16200 replica base) that I have. I'll post how it goes but it will be a while.
  9. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    "Above someone mentioned Ruby. I checked with her last year for this particular case. She quoted me $620." Thanks! That is not too bad considering some ask almost twice as much. After I clear up a few projects this may be the next one.
  10. automatico

    Rolex 5513/1680 midcase question

    It was in the early to mid 1970s afaik but do not know exactly when. I always wondered if they cut the grooves in the 5512/13, 1680, 1665 cases all at once or maybe cut the groove in some models first and not others. Probably some models came out with the groove sooner and some later depending on how many cases they had left over at the end of a production run. As for replicas...the only replicas I have with case top gasket grooves are MBK but they did not come with gaskets in them. I put case top gaskets in mine and the gasket needed to be a little bit smaller in cross section than the case back gasket.
  11. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    "Have you tried a vietnam 1016 case?" No but I have considered it. "...one well-educated RWG member had advised against the idea of walking the Vietnam path since the a.m. Minh Quy apparently was a slightly hard-to-deal-with character and, I was told, there was no guarantee whatsoever that the item I'd receive would be what I had paid for." This is the main reason why I never ordered a case from anyone in Vn. If the guy choked or the case got lost, I would be out the $$ and howling at the moon. Otoh I have had good luck with Reggie (MBK watches), Yuki (cases, dials), IG44 (dials, now gone south), DW (also southbound) and a couple others. The main problem is me...I get bogged down on projects and take too much time off. In the past month all I got done was taking an Omega D-D cal 752 apart and putting it half way back together. I stopped when I noticed the clear coat on the dial is coming loose from the dial and has pulled some stripes off the dial that stuck to the clear coat. I may end up removing all of the hour markers and sealing the flap of clearcoat with clear paint of some sort. Omega movement parts are also getting hard to find. I had to scare up two more movements for parts. Otoh I finally got a rusted stem (stuck solid in the main plate) out of a rlx 1570/5 in a 1603 after three and a half years of staring at it...melted it away with white vinegar. I guess that could be called progress.
  12. automatico

    1016, end of the journey (?)

    I like the dial! Here is one similar to it on HQ Milton: https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/rom6j13k/1965-rolex-explorer-1016-with-tropical-gilt-dial-8501 "Where can you find a 1016 service dial?" Best bet for the money might be a good used Luminova dial with 'T Swiss T<25' on it. The first run of Lumi 1016 dials had trit markings. Besides the $$ difference, Lumi does not fizzle out like tritium. I would go with a replica dial on a replica watch with Eta and only use a genuine dial on a $$ project with a 15xx mvt and high grade case...maybe a modified genuine 16200, 16000 case etc. I have everything but a case...been looking for 20+ years. If I could find a super ratty original case/dial I would send it in with a movement for one of their World Famous Extremely Reasonable Tune-ups and bite the bullet on a new case. Great-Damn-Big HA! on the Extremely Reasonable part. Trouble is...the replacement would be a '44' case making the watch worth a LOT less. Probably be lucky to break even.
  13. automatico

    6263 build, recommendations

    Something I meant to say in the post above but left out: My Number 1 rule on putting watch projects together using genuine movements is...do not hunt for movements on eBay or where 'knowledgeable watch crooks' gather...high falutin' watch shows etc. Look in the trenches...flea markets, outdoor roadside trade shows, car and gun shows, Mom and Pop pawn shops etc. This is where the good deals can be found. The average gun or car guy does not give two hoots about a V72 or 23 but he may have one in a watch that he took in trade for almost nothing from someone who did not give half a hoot about it. Put the word out to gun, knife etc traders...tell them what you are looking for and offer a 'finder's fee'. I have found a lot of good deals this way. The last V72 watch I bought was around $50 about 5 years ago. It was rusty but ran and everything worked...can not remember the brand but I made about $200 on it. Found it! Wakmann. I paid $35 for it from guy who works on BMW motorcycles (he rides an R75/5). I put a crystal and strap on it, turned around and sold it for $300 (1-5-2014). Another example...bought a Hamilton 992 RR pocket watch in ygf case 10-7-18 for $40 (mvt 1712xxx ca 1920) from a computer trader/repair guy. Movement looks fine, no rust, good dial (couple very small hairline cracks), good screws etc but it would not run...it was gummed up with old oil.
  14. automatico

    Building an MBW Sub

    January 29 2019 In answer to the question: "what is good price these days. i bought a 1570 over 10 year ago for $800" Posted in: "Wanted 1575 movement" in the "I Want To Buy..." section. I thought it might help anyone starting a project with a rlx 1570 etc. "What is good price these days. I bought a 1570 over 10 years ago for $800" I would guess a 1570 or 1575 in good condition (no rust and no service history) is fairly priced at $1000 to $1300 now. Sometimes you can find a complete watch with rough case/dial for that price, mostly reference 1500. BIN prices on eBay are pretty high but when you look at 'sold items' they are sometimes a bit more reasonable. From my experience, most of the 'just serviced' watches have not been touched for years other than with Rodico to remove specks. Many rlx 15xx movements are in bad mechanical condition but still look good. 1...Look at the outer edge of the main plate to see if the winding rotor has worn the plating away because of a worn rotor axle, broken jewel, loose a/w assembly etc. There is usually a small circle of brassy unplated area on the outer edge of the a/w plate but this is always present and not caused by the rotor. Rotor axles can be replaced but they are not just 'knocked out and pressed back in'...the outer edge of the top of the rotor axle should be cut off and the axle pushed out from the top to keep from enlarging the hole in the rotor when an axle is driven out from the underside. The riveted part of the axle on the underside of the rotor will remove metal from the rotor when it is driven out and the next axle may be loose even after it has been riveted. Many 'rolex mechanics' take the shortcut and just drive them out. It may work one time but usually not two or more because the hole in the rotor is enlarged each time. 2...Reversers also cause problems and if the red anodized surface is worn or chipped it is a good indication of a high mileage/low maintenance movement. Many 'rolexperts' claim the red is Teflon. Not Teflon, it is hard anodized for wear resistance. 3...The 'intermediate wheel' that transfers winding power from the a/w assembly to the movement can also wear, check the teeth and pivots closely. High quality aftmkt replacements are available. 4...Mainspring arbor (axle) holes in the main plate can wear out of round if they are dry for a long time. This causes the m/s barrel to rub the main plate causing low power reserve. The fix: A...new main plate. ($$) B...Peen the area around the hole to close it a bit (not the best practice but it works). C...Put a bushing in the hole. A tedious job but probably the best fix. D...Grease the plate under the ms barrel so it will turn easily for a while...a common 'quick and dirty fix' for traders. 5...Balance staffs can get broken but usually the watch stops or only runs 'dial up' or 'dial down' so they are fairly easy to spot. The staff can wear down from dry pivots/dirt/no service especially if the watch is left 'dial up' or 'dial down' overnight for years because the balance is swinging on point contact, not line contact as it would be when 'dial right', 'dial left' etc. This is why mechanical watches can gain time when 'dial up' or 'dial down'...there is less friction when running on point contact, as long as there is some oil. 6...Because the 1575 date is slow set, the canon pinion is often loose. Some may get so loose that the watch will run but the hour and minute hands do not move. The fix is to tighten the c/p or replace the 'center wheel with c/p' (available in aftmkt). 7...Check the teeth (aka leaves) on date wheels for wear/bent teeth along with the numbers, background paint etc. 8...See if the dial screws are present and not broken off in the holes...same for calendar spacer ring screws. Etc, etc. My last few rlx 15xx buys: Last movement I bought on eBay was around 2012...a '1570' that turned out to be a 1560 with 1570 autowind bridge, the rotor was turned so you could not tell it was a 1560 in the pictures. I doubt the seller knew the difference but it was still a pretty good deal for $650. May 2015 I snagged a 1603 DJ from a watch trader with a good black dial and very good case for $575 but the stem was rusted and stuck in the main plate (no rust anywhere else). Early last week I finally got around to soaking the plate in white vinegar and now most of the stem has been melted away where it was stuck. I covered the steel parts (winding pinion/clutch wheel) with Testors enamel to protect them and the plate was set only deep enough to cover a few mm of the plate where the stem was stuck. I am soaking it in penetrating oil now to finish it up. January 2016 I traded a Heuer Pasadena (V7750) for a rlx 1500 with very good case/dial/movement, Funny thing is I had owned the same Heuer Pasadena over 20 years before and I had $300 or so in it back then. Got it back March 2015 for $250 from a gold/diamond trader and it looked the same with no more nicks/scratches than before. Bought a rlx DD cal 1556 movement from the same guy May 2013 for $600...they had melted the case and bracelet. (!!) A good deal is where you find it. I usually find the best deals when I am not looking for a deal.
  15. automatico

    What's the best Daytona currently?

    Q: "What is your budget?" A: "As much as it takes." Good question. Good answer. All is imho but I do own a few A7750/53 examples plus a few vintage types with the Venus 175 clone (ST19). With modern 'Daytona' replicas the problem is always going to be the movement. The A7750 with seconds at 9 was not very good some of the time but at least the movement was a copy of a viable design. The A7750 with the seconds at 6 are junk imho. I bought two...one for grins and one for parts. I never worked up the courage to wear one but they both still tick when I shake them 5+ years later. A sec@9 model with a genuine 7750 is Ok but the cases are too thick and I read the A7750 hands are not a good fit, I do not know. Also read all the 750 models sub dials are not exactly in the right spot. Maybe the sec@6 is close, do not know. Here is where it gets itchy...the 4130 Dayclona looks the part and everything I have read has been good. That's fine and dandy but afaik there are no parts except another movement or another watch. Bad News. Real Bad News. You have three 'systems' with potential problems: 1...Autowind. 2...Time keeping. 3...Chronograph. Q...Which 'system' usually causes the most trouble? A...My guess is #1 and #3 are tied but you can help #3 by not pushing the suicide buttons much at all therefore not running the chronograph. I read that some genuine parts will fit but they are expensive and not easy to get. Problems with ST19/Venus 175 clones? None except a pallet jewel came off the pallet fork in one of them. One is over 10 years old, an early cartel 'Daytona' and it has an oversize case with 20mm lug spacing but the dial is pretty good and it keeps very good time. I almost never use the chronograph function but it has never failed to work and reset properly. They have a few more jewels than the original Venus 175 and the beat rate is 21600 where the 175 was 18000. The subdial spacing is off a little compared to a Val 72 from what I have read and the hour recorder hand needs to be locked in place. Everyone who is familiar with vintage Daytonas will assume any they see 'in the wild' are replicas where someone wearing a modern automatic might get a pass. That's a Slight Might. Truisms: "When you opt for revenge, first dig two graves." "When buying a replica chronograph, buy two...one for parts."
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