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automatico last won the day on August 12

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  1. automatico

    New ARF and Noob Daytonas

    "So using the chronograph causes stress on the movement and this makes sense." Not stress so much as basically 'pressing your luck' because of the poor construction, tolerances, and QC of many Asian clone chronograph movements. "But I'm guessing as this movement becomes more popular the cost of the parts will decrease (unless you go gen) and that the watchmakers experience will increase." The movement clone producers usually do not make parts available and repair guys who work on genuine watches do not like to work on them. Q...Why? A...The answers are stated above and below. To put it mildly...the movements are problematic. There are no distribution channels for signed knock-off movement parts, or Asian clone parts in general. Sea-Gull maybe but I have not seen any except on eBay and they may or may not be Sea-Gull parts as there are 3 or 4 Asian clone makers. "Is sourcing gen parts an issue if this is a 1:1 clone, with the exception of some parts as mentioned above?" Some parts may be 1:1 with genuine but not all. Take the autowind assembly for instance...it may fit but it might not a good idea to put a $500 genuine part in a $600 replica. Q...Why? A...Because then you have an eleven hundred dollar ($1100) replica plus labor with only ONE (1) reliable genuine part. All imho. If this was a proven chronograph clone movement...Seagull ST19 - Venus 175 clone for example, my answers would be different but the 4130 clone is new and unproven. I sincerely hope you have no trouble with it.
  2. automatico

    New ARF and Noob Daytonas

    "...as others have stated this is a tough movement to work only a rep watch smith should be used and a damn good one at that." Agree. Downside: Looks good but comes with gremlins: Very little QC as mentioned above. No Parts. Some genuine parts will fit, but they are hard to find and high $$. A skilled watch mechanic is needed to work on them. Upside: They cost $10k less. Factoids: Reliability before and after service will be better if the chronograph function is not used, same as with any mechanical chronograph. A seconds at six non chronograph movement with a center sweep hand frozen at 12 is a much better and cheaper alternative for a replica...imho. What if you really need a chronograph? Get a Seiko with the meca-quartz 6T63 movement. One example is the Seiko SSB025PC. Frédéric Piguet and Jaeger-LeCoultre made meca-quartz movements in the 1980s/1990s and they were expensive and a pain to work on (No Parts For You!). IWC used the JLC cal 631 version and Breitling called their souped up Frédéric Piguet cal 1271 the 'Breitling 69' in their Windrider Chronoracer Rattrapante. Not long ago, Seiko made some watches with meca-quartz movements that are reliable as a pet rock and sell for $200 or less.
  3. automatico

    Rolex 1680 - Gen vs. Rep Comparison

    "Absolutely, you will save a bunch. Just the gen 93150 bracelet has became ridiculously high now. I have seen very well done aged bracelets using rep parts." I've cobbled a few together and it seems the hardest part is finding a bracelet stamped '93150' with hollow mid links as most have solid mid links. If you come up with a bracelet with HML it is not too hard to scrounge up a proper clasp and dive extension. The catch is you need a clasp made for a rivet in the hinge end, not a plain spring bar. For this you will need the proper flip lock lever made to accommodate the rivet. Not as easy to find as the models with spring bars. Genuine riveted hinges have a spacer on each side between the FL lever and the clasp blade to keep the FL from getting out of alignment. The rivet type FL lever is wider or has a relief cut in it to clear the rivet. Next you need to decide if you want an old style 'holes in a row' clasp or modern type with 'spaced holes'. Last but not least is the crimped 'keeper dent' in the clasp cap skirt on many of the older 93150 bracelets. It helps keep excess links and the dive extension from dropping down every time you take the watch off. I made a tool to put the dent in the clasp cap out of cheapo strap notching pliers. Then there are the flip lock levers without grooves, clasp caps without fingernail notches etc but they are few and far between on replicas so I won't mention them... Spaced holes with keeper dent: Holes in a row with keeper dent:
  4. automatico

    waterproofing rep DJ case raffles, etc

    The method outlined above is the way to go. I have a 'DJ' done basically like the 'horologist' version using the following components: Standard 36mm 162xx type case made for Eta 2836/A21j. ST sapphire crystal with gasket. ST case back gasket. ST case tube with gasket. ST steel fluted bezel. Aftmkt crown with new cap gasket. Compared the case to a genuine 16200 case and the case neck is the same OD (29.5mm) with a very good finish so the ST oem spec crystal and gasket will work. Case back gasket was from an ST assortment. Crown is like the one that comes on JMB '1016' type cases. Used 'ThreeBond' sealer on the case tube threads and silicone grease on the rubber gaskets. Tested it in a Bergeon 5555/98 tester to 85 or 90psi (about 6atm). I use a small air tank to pressurize the chamber through a Schrader valve installed in place of the pressure relief valve. One shot and pressure is up...no pumping. Tested it 4 or 5 times. No leaks. Still have it a few years later. It has a black Roman numeral dial, red/black date on white, red second hand, jubilee style bracelet, and a Seagull ST16 movement that runs within 10 or 12 seconds a day (slow). Need to speed it up...never got around to it. Make sure the case neck is the same as oem (29.5mm) and the case tube threads are oem spec so oem spec parts will work. Some cases have 5.3mm case tubes and some have 6.0mm case tubes...both should have 6mm diameter crowns. FYI...5.3 case tube threads are 2.5mm x .25mm, 6.0mm threads are 3.0mm x .35mm. Read the 'Crown Info' sticky in the rolex section for more confusion.
  5. automatico

    Jensen has problems

    "Rolex has a uniquely stringent view on what qualifies as an illegitimate Rolex. In their view, any modification to a watch making it appear other than it shipped from Rolex’s factory renders the whole watch counterfeit. This is their view, whether the replaced part or parts are aftermarket, or original Rolex parts. Change the bezel on DateJust from fluted gold to a Rolex stainless steel bezel? The whole watch is considered counterfeit, unless you pay a Rolex service center to change it back." According to that, a huge percentage of formerly 'genuine' rlx watches are 'Officially Counterfeit' by decree. So...one burning question comes to mind. Why not buy a 'Real Counterfeit' to begin with?
  6. The catch is finding one that is tap 10 (T10 = .9mm, same as modern rolex crowns). Most will be T9 or T8, too big. Here is one but the price is high: eBay item number: 202374736429 A 'reasonable' price imho is $6 to $12. VALJOUX 23-401 (T10) Winding Stem fits: 23 23c 72 72c etc. (c = calendar) I looked in my parts but all I found was a V72 mainspring.
  7. automatico

    A Little 5514 Abay Fettling...

    "I was surprised by the plexi fitment - is that just this rep case or gen?" Only on cases using this type of bezel. Genuine and oem spec cases have an inner bezel ring that presses over the crystal skirt and the rotating bezel snaps down over it. There is a thin spacer between the inner and rotating bezels to provide tension to keep the bezel in place. The Abay case neck is oem spec (28.2mm) so aftmkt oem spec bezel kits will work. Case backs made for the gasket groove in the case with 30.5mm case back threads will usually fit these cases. The Abay cases were the 'Eta project cases' of their day much like the MBW/MBK cases were the 'rolex project cases' of their day. AfaIk most of the current batch of '5514' cases are not the same as the Abay cases. The current bezels are probably better and most will have the back gasket in the case back. Few will have the oem spec HEV. Abay cases make excellent Eta 1680 projects with an oem spec crystal/bezel kit, oem spec case tube/crown (I used TC ct/crn), trimmed CG, and drilled lugs. Better 1680 projects than 55xx projects only because of the 26.0mm dial window opening. With an oversize 55xx dial they are fine. Here are some 29mm +/- dials from Raff that should work if the minute markers are not covered up too much. Never tried one. http://rafflesdials.com/watch-dial/
  8. automatico

    A Little 5514 Abay Fettling...

    Cool retro-replica! I have a few 'Paul/Abay' watches. I hear everyone saying...Yawn, so what? So...here is some of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (imho): The Good: The case neck is oem spec so oem spec crystals and bezel kits will work. The HEV is oem spec but the leaf spring is weak. The dial seat is 29.3mm so it will take a variety of large OD dials. The case tube threads are oem spec. Some had pretty good hollow mid link bracelets with the 'prototype' clasp. Spring bar holes are usually located so there is room to drill them out without being too close to an edge (very important imho). Very good overall quality except for the bezel fiasco. The Bad: Crystal is glued to the case and the bezel is either glued over the crystal (will not turn) or the bezel has a spring wire mounted in it that goes in the space between the top of the case and the 'short skirt' crystal...the crystal is glued on but the bezel turns. The case back gasket groove is in the case, not the case back like oem 5512/13/14/1680. It does not matter. After all, the genuine 1665 gasket groove is in the case. The dial opening is a hair too big (26.0mm) for oem spec 5512/13/14 dials. Works Ok with 1680 spec dials. Will not accept a rlx 1530 base movement...case ID is too small. Never tried hogging one out to oem spec. 'Batman' crown guards are too big. The Ugly (according to genuine watch forums): The fk'r wearing it. Hee Haw! The Paul/Abay 1665 used the same exact case as their 55xx/1680 except for the HEV. "...go "stealth" pre-COMEX." Pre-COMEX!
  9. automatico

    5512/13, 1680 case info and a few questions...

    "So, the Cartel 1680 isn't even worth looking at for less than $150? What are the issues?" They are hit or miss in specs and overall quality. Most are made for Eta 28xx or Asian '21 jewel' movements, not rolex. Some are oem spec as far as case neck etc and will accept ST/Clark oem spec bezels, crystals etc but some are out of spec. Most have the correct case tube threads but the cases may not be machined for oem gaskets between the case tube and case. "Yuki said 1680 case is discontinued, though Ruby has them for $650 (ouch). If one were willing to drop $650 on the Ruby, what's needed to get a 2846 working? Spacer? And will an overlay solve the ETA datewheel location issue?" Iirc a Yuki 1680 was that much or more up until they were discontinued. Their 5512/13 cases were $600 each in mid 2014 with random serial numbers, special s/n were more. They discounted $50 each on two cases when I got a 5512 and a 5513 at the same time so it made them $550 each. The cases were top quality. An Eta 2846 is smaller in diameter than a rolex 15xx so any case made for a rolex movement will need a special spacer. DWOs come in different versions so you will need to zero in on one that suits you and track one down. They are a pain imho...hard to index/glue down over the original DW, then you will have to be sure there is enough room between the DWO and dial, next you have to make sure the hands mount far enough away from the dial...if not you will need a taller hour wheel, CP, center sweep pinion, hour wheel etc. And on and on... A 5512/13 project is much easier. "I like the idea of using an MBW, but they're hard to come by and when they do, the Ruby case is a small jump in $$ more." True. Since the last batch of MBK watches were over $400, an empty case will probably be that much by now. I posted some info about MBK cases at the top of the rolex section in the stickies. "The winding crown is too low on the Cartel cases and they are far too thick. They are pretty much all the same case, so 1680 is actually a 5513 and the dial opening is too small, so won’t take the good aftermarket 1680 dials if I remember correctly." Same with MBK...they are 1680 spec cases with a 5513 spec dial window. They are not overly thick though and the quality is first rate. Free advice: Find something inexpensive that you like and buy it now to wear while you go through the long drawn out process of putting a project watch together. It may take a few months...or a year. This is not meant to discourage anyone, it is just a word of advice from someone who has been around the block. Example...my '1655' project has been on/off for 5+ years. Why? Because GMT part$ are expensive and hard to find. Looks like someone else found this out the hard way, a 1575GMT rolex movement just went for $3600 on eBay: ROLEX GMT MASTER MOVEMENT Ref. 1570/1575 for GMT MASTER 1675 Explorer II, 1655 VINTAGE MOVEMENT / Fully Serviced / Sold AS IS eBay item number: 163171371202 Ended: Aug 06, 2018 , 10:29PM Winning bid: US $3,600.00 Shipping: $50.00 Expedited Shipping
  10. automatico

    Sh 3135 and sea dweller

    On genuine watches a cal 3135 will not work in a case made for a cal 1570/5 date movement because the stem will not line up in the case tube. A 3035 will fit, depending on dial size. The beat rate is also wrong with the 3035 and 3135, both running at 28800 bph and a 1570/5 at 19800 bph. Cal 1530/1560 run at 18000 bph but they were not used in 1665 watches. The beat rate is really not important except it is a 'tell' because the second hand travel is much smoother on faster beat movements.
  11. automatico

    'Sidewinder' clasp...

    "I'd believe Rolex made it." I saw a 5514 on a genuine watch forum a few years back with a sidewinder clasp on it but can not find it now. The clasp I have looks much like the one in the picture except it has 4 holes toward the open end of the clasp, a small space, then three more holes where the one in the picture has 8 holes in a row. Mine has the 'bracelet keeper' notches between the first and second holes like the one pictured. It has a stamped sheet metal dive extension like came on earlier replica 16610 etc and hollow mid links with dead end screw holes...no hole on the side opposite the screw head. There are two pictured on here, six rows down: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rolex+5514+with+prototype+clasp&qpvt=rolex+5514+with+prototype+clasp&FORM=IGRE
  12. automatico

    'Sidewinder' clasp...

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/221920434323?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l10137 Supposedly a 5513 with a 'prototype' sidewinder clasp. My guess is it was a project watch that got removed from eBay because of complaints. It disappeared saying "This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available." a few days after it was posted. The listing is a few years old and the link may be dead...if it comes up showing something else, scroll down or click on 'listing' in the highlighted banner at the top. I've mentioned this clasp before but would like to see what others have to say about it...did they make some or not? I never saw one except under suspicious circumstances. I have a similar clasp (Paul/Abay!) and thought about putting it on a later bracelet and making a 5513/5514 type project watch with HE valve. Since the 5514 was made in the early 1970s it would need a later oyster bracelet, not a rivet type. Some 5514 info: http://www.drsd.com/watch-info/comex/comex-5514.html They show one with a folded oyster so maybe some had them...or it is what they had handy at the time.
  13. automatico

    Rolex date 15000 and 1500 dial size

    "Am I right?" Yep.
  14. automatico

    Rolex date 15000 and 1500 dial size

    "I recently bought got a gen rolex date 15000 case set, it came with everything except a dial, dut im wondering if a dial from a 1500 date will fit, so i can expand my search." Same OD, different dial foot location. 1530 base dials: OPD 26.9mm AK 27.0mm Slow set DJ dials are easy to spot with 'pie pan' shape. Dial feet approx. 30m and 54m A 1575 slow set date movement/dial will work in a 15000 case but not a 15200 case. Movement/dial from a 15200 case will not work in a 15000 case. 30xx/31xx dials are interchangeable. OPD 26.9mm DJ 27.85mm Dial feet approx. 13m and 37m Newer oversize DJ...the dial feet and date are farther from center. "Also, is the hand length the same as a datejust?" From the factory, no. Aftmkt, probably yes. Most aftmkt dress hands for eta/tudor are made for 34mm or 36mm cases. They may be the same hands. Hand length is measured from the center of the hole to the tip of the long end. Center hole sizes are in mm...a #130 hand hole is 1.3mm. A #25 sweep sec hand hole is .25mm. https://blog.esslinger.com/how-to-measure-watch-hands/