automatico

Genuine 90% condition 15200 case, dial, hands, crown, crystal... Powered by NOS Mido Commander/ETA 12892.

nut

"In my opinion for 1500 builds, fitting a 2836-2 or 2846 (lowbeat equivalent of the 2836-2) is easier than to fit a 2824-2." More Trivia along that line... A rolex 15000 case made for a cal 3035 is very close to the same as a 1500 case so if you run across a 15000 case it will also work with an ETA 2836. Dial diameters are the same and they both have the same 5.3mm crowns and 19mm bracelet hoods. The 1500 takes a 25-117 crystal and the 15000 takes a 25-145. The 15200 case with cal 3135 is different besides having a sapphire crystal. The cal 3135 is thinner than a 3035 or 1575 so the stem may not/will not line up in the case tube when using an ETA 2836. A case made for a cal 3135 will usually take an ETA 2824. An ETA 2836 will usually work in a case made for a cal 1575 date or rlx 3035. No guarantees. I have a rolex 15200 case with a (Mido) ETA 12892, it all fits fine and the 12892 has been out of production for years so they are hard to find but it is the same basic movement as an ETA 2892/2892-A2. The watch was put together by another RWG member who has been absent for years...'Stilty'. He also made the famous 'Stilty Spacer' a CNC made spacer to adapt an ETA 28xx to a rolex case. He sent me the unsold spacers when he left the forum and I put them where I could find them...but I can't find them. They are probably hiding out with my gold Bulova 'Beau Brummel' that I can't find. bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Mido 12892 (ETA 2892) (ranfft.de) movement holders / spacers for franken projects - Watch Repair & Upgrade - RWG Movement spacers... - The Rolex Area - RWG The pic is long gone. 8-2-22...The 15200, about 18 posts down... Rolex Wristies thread - Page 143 - The Rolex Area - RWG

"If you want to remove bezel, again you run the risk of it becoming disposal! Maybe it was designed like this on purpose as they were so affordable to replace! Who knows? If these flaws were addressed prior to production, then it would have been the 99% best 16610!" Regarding the F520117...imho you are 100% correct. Noobmariner replica? - The Rolex Area - RWG I first tried the standard method of removing the 'spring wire' bezel on a noob F520117 by forcing a thin blade between the case and bezel, then trying to pull it off but no go. It felt like something was going to bend, break, bleed, or blister so I resorted to the method in the link above. Another example of what can go wrong with these projects: Here is the mess I recently got into on my 'dewokked' D320840 '16610' a few days ago. It is not a noobmariner type case and also has a spring wire bezel but the fit is not nearly as precise as a noobmariner and it can be removed using a blade between the case and bezel. To remount it, you just make sure the spring wire is in the groove in the bezel and the spring/click are in place, then place the bezel on the case and slowly turn it while pushing down on the bezel a little bit. Sometimes they will just snap on without turning the bezel, so try that first. The flimsy 'aluminum foil' bezel insert on the D320840 case was stuck in the bez with double sided tape and looked super ratty. Since I had already 'dewokked' the case by cutting a little bit of the 'wok' out of the dial opening leaving the inside edge at a 90 degree angle to the dial, what the heck, why not change the bez insert too? Nothin' to it. It turned out to be another headache. As usual... 1...The new insert was a bit too small OD and I glued it into the bez with Gorilla glue anyway just to get 'er done. Ok, finished. But Noooo! 2...The bez mounted a hair too high because the bottom inner edge of the insert rubbed the top edge of the case neck where the crystal gasket is mounted. I discovered this the next day after (!) the glue had hardened so I had to remove the spring wire bezel (again!!) and carefully pry the insert out of the bez. Next, I had to clean all the glue off both surfaces. Lucky for me the bezel was jacked up a hair or two by the case neck leaving a bit of space between the bez and insert around the inside edge. Finally got all the glue cleaned off so I decided to expand the OD of the bez insert a little bit by turning it upside down on the tapered neck of an old green glass Coke bottle (special tool!) and pushed it down a hair using a three inch long section of plastic plumbing pipe with a relief cut in the end about 1mm bigger than the bez OD to center it. This is 'standard watch hacker practice', aka an old trick but no one admits to it. A 'Rolex Certified' watch mechanic friend at a rolex AD showed me this trick many years ago. 3...The bez insert broke (!) where the 'pip hole' was...but it expanded. 4...Dug through my extensive collection (3 or 4) of 16610 type bez inserts and found ONE heavy duty 'slickback' insert (not aluminum foil) that would fit. 'Slickback' = smooth underside, no ridges/steps. 5...Laid the insert in the bez and snapped it over the case neck. No glue this time, I wised up. 6...It was 'jacked up on the case neck same as the first one. 7...Repeat step #2...with caution, not abandon. Skip step 3. 8... Put the bezel in a lathe and thin the insert seat area down a tiny bit to lower the insert so more of the crystal would show above the bezel. The tapered top edge of the crystal should rise above the bezel insert. 9...Glue it, clamp it, wait another 24 hours. Clamped in an old 'BB' crystal press (with bezel and insert on the watch) using Gorilla glue this time instead of epoxy with three 1/2 inch wide strips of motorcycle inner tube rubber bands to apply clamping force to an aluminum press cup that fitted down over the outer edge of the insert and inside the rotating bezel outer wall using thick clear plastic wrap between the press cup and bezel insert to protect it. 10...Success! More or less. After three days. Edited 7-24, I left step 8 out when first posted. All this makes me want to go back to my other hobby... Looking out the window. Artist: D J Rogers

"What is the best 16610 at the moment?" Aka 'Who has the best sub?" "The 16610 is no longer the hot thing in town as it has been replaced by that goofy new tuna can style ceramic insert model 116610 - the in thing amongst peoples with more cash than $#*#$." Yep, true. A fact of life in the wacky watch world. I used to say the last 'real' rolex watches made were the four digit acrylic models but I have taken a shine to the 16610 for some reason. They are modern classics. "If I really wanted to spend the money, I would buy a star supply case and as many parts that come with the case at star supply as this case is designed as an aftermarket replacement for the 16610 which should fit the genuine 3135 movement!" Very Good advice if you want to start at the top of the 16610 case heap and avoid many hassles. The ST cases are less $$ than 'Vnam' type cases and are more consistent in quality but they have no numbers or letters. Iirc an ETA 2824 will also fit in an ST case with a spacer like mentioned above. You may also need an hour wheel, canon pinion etc. set from an ETA 2836 to give more hand clearance between the dial and hands...I may be wrong about that but it used to be more or less standard with 28xx ETAs in 5512/13 etc. projects. Also, DW overlays are more difficult to install on an ETA 2824 than a 2836, there is not much room and sometimes the DW rubs the dial . The 16610 might be Ok with lower hands, I really do not know and maybe someone who has put a 16610 with ETA 2824 project together will chime in. Anyway, my 'better' 16610 replicas have ETA 2836 movements and the lower tier models have 'A21' Miyota clones or Seagull ST6 and the space between the hands and dial looks Ok to me. Never had one with an ETA 2824 that I can remember. If you are willing to forgo the oem type of crystal mounting, there were quite a few good '16610' watches made from around 2003 through 2015 (+/-) that look very good, but most have 'spring wire' bezels and crystals pressed into a plastic gasket. Nothing wrong with that but an oem or aftmkt oem spec crystal will not fit. Then there are F520117 'noobmariners' but that is another story. One of mine is 11 posts down... Rolex Wristies thread - Page 139 - The Rolex Area - RWG Imho... First thing is to is decide on a 'do it yourself' project or a 'buy it now' complete watch. Next, decide on how much you want to spend. Double it. (Ha!) Then go on the 'net and look at dozens of genuine 16610 watches and compare them with '16610' replicas and look for obvious flaws... 'rat ears' (too small) crown guards, 'fat legs' etc. All the while remembering rule #1: "As you know the problems we are all facing In this hobby is the availability of quality parts!" "I have been looking for one since TC went West or East!' Maybe TC went South. Ha!

7-20-22 Have not tried to contact Bulova yet so I robbed an hour wheel from another Precisionist to fix this dive style watch. Besides the hour wheel being plastic, it also drives the date change works and evidently this is just too much strain on the plastic wheel. Afaik all the stripped H wheels have been on date models, have not seen any reports of stripped wheels on watches without dates...yet. "The theoretical solution would be to modify a brass hour wheel of some other movement from a similar measure and hopefully it will suffice!" Good idea! That would be a good fix if not for the notched hub made on the hour wheel. After this hour cog stripped, the only Accutron II that I am not afraid to wear is an Alpha Spaceview....no date but it is rose gold color. Ugh. Btw...the Alphas have Swiss Made cases. Here is the model I have with the stripped hour wheel except mine has a Bulova signed rubber strap and steel buckle... Bulova 98B167 'CATAMOUNT'

Seems like one of the 3135/3235 clones is a bit better than the others but I do not know which one it is. Maybe find the clone with the best reliability history and buy a DJ with this movement. Modern DJ watches are popular on 'Reptime'. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/w0r7e1/always_love_the_datejust_smooth_bezel/

High mileage E320840...

"...I need another beater like a hole in the head." Me too. I stuck the D320840 together only because it has been apart since 2013 and I heard it crying...or was it me? Ha! "I think of the other SNs- like D320840 as cartel watches." I see them the same way. The D320840 that I 'dewokked' is Ok for a sidetrack beater but it would not make it out on the Main Line...except the bracelet, it is pretty good. It turned out Ok but I should have thinned the bez down a little bit before I stuck it on with epoxy, it sits a bit too high. The bez is thick like oem, not aluminum foil like wear 'em in the dark beaters. A few minutes later...I compared the D320840 bez insert height and crystal rise above it with a noob F520117 and they are about the same, so it's Ok for me. Maybe I'll wear it in daylight. I'll say one thing for the BSI (Bob Smith Industries) 'slow set' epoxy that I use on projects...it sticks! That's why I left the bez insert as is before I compared it. The F125967 case is a few notches above the D320840 type case, a 'semi-noob' maybe. I'll put it in the 'noobmariner' box with a note. Found a noob M092117 case in the noob box and it is identical to an F520117 case far as I can tell except for numbers etc. on the reflector/rehaut. With the prices of 'bespoke' replica vintage cases going waaay up, maybe the 16610 will be the next 'affordable' vintage rolex. If so, I'm all set. More or less. "...similar to a noob F520117 except it has a spring wire bezel" The F520117 also has a spring wire bezel. How could I forget? I r/r a few: 1...Remove movement/dial. 2...Press/push crystal out of the case from inside the case being careful of the coronet, some are printed (?) and are easy to damage. 3...Gently remove the bezel insert. No easy way, just be careful not to bend it. 4...Chase the spring wire with a very thin narrow blade (3 or 4mm wide sliver of a razor blade etc) between the case neck and spring wire while gently lifting up on the robez beside the blade until the robez pops up on one side. Then you can (usually) run the blade around slowly and get the robez off with no damage. It is very easy to bend or damage the robez and if so, it may be hard to turn when installed. 5...To replace the robez (with the spring wire in the groove in the robez), start it on one side and chase the spring wire around the case neck with a blade while gently pushing down on the robez. What da ell is a robez? Hint: Almost every submariner has one (some fell off). Google it.

I was digging through some repjunk and found a new case and dial (I robbed the mvt years ago) with serial number F125967. Anyone know anything about them? It is very similar to a noob F520117 except it has a spring wire bezel iirc. Looks like I have owned it for at least 11 years... "Something else...there are a lot of 'noobs' and the F520117 is only one example. I have similar cases with D/F320840, F125967, F437091, P579998 (with lug holes), M550297, F432118." https://rwg.cc/topic/132869-new-bezel-for-noobmariner/?tab=comments#comment-975748 I may see if it is made for 2824 or 2836 in a day or two. I 'dewokked' an old D320840 case today to make a 'modern' beater. It is turning out pretty good so far, stuck a 'nos' A21 in it, still looking for a few bracelet parts to finish it. I'll post a few pics when/if I get it done.

Blast from the Past... NOS Kermit from somewhere around 2007.

It does not surprise me. I sold a new in box Oris Big Date to a guy about 10 years ago after I sent good pics and an accurate description. He even went to a retail store that had one and tried the same exact watch on before he bought mine. A few days after he got the watch he called and said: "It is bigger than the one in the store, I want my $$ back." I explained to him that it was the exact watch he tried on and wanted. He went quiet...for a while. A few weeks after that, he called and said he wanted a refund because the battery was dead and a new watch should not have a dead battery in just a few weeks. I asked: "How much have you worn it?" He said: "Every day until a few days ago." I said: "Forget it, no returns on used watches." It was automatic.

I have a few Bulova Precisionist watches (6 or 7) and so far so good...up until now. I got this one in a trade a while back and noticed the hands were out of whack (aka out of correspondence) after it being Ok for weeks. I have seen on a forum or two that some owners are having this same trouble. The hour hand and minute hand get out of whack or the hour hand just stops moving like mine did. Here is what I found: A few teeth on the PLASTIC hour wheel are broken or bent. According to posters on other forums, Bulova has stopped selling hour wheels for these things. This means Fun, Fun, Fun for anyone who owns one and this happens. Q...What to do? A1...Send it to an 'Official Bulova Repair Center' along with a stack of $$$. A2...Sell it for parts or flatten it with a hammer and send it to Bulova Hq with a 'Thank You' note. It will make me MAD if they refuse to sell a few hour wheels. I'll call and find out in a few days. Btw, none of the watches I bought new have had any trouble yet, but this makes me wonder if there might be trouble down the road. Maybe the teeth break off when setting the hands while the date is trying to change or something like this. I've not done this with any of mine, this one included. Maybe this one was on the way out when I got it. Note: The picture has been enhanced to make the defect stand out, the wheel is just smooth black plastic.

"Are you still working on DJ builds?" All I am doing right now is trying to get my genuine rolex watches running because a few are apart and a few more have gummed up and stopped running because they have been stored so long. It is slow going because I have a lot of outside work to do in the spring/summer/fall when the weather is good (no rain). "I actually have a raffles build 16013 that I am trying to have the blind lugs drilled to make it more accurate and so straps aren’t so easily taken off at a tug!" Iirc I drilled the lugs on the 16003 project using a regular 1.0mm drill bit in a bench drill press start to finish but next few times I used a 1.0mm 'ball nose' cutting bit in a Sherline milling machine to start the holes because the ball nose does not try to 'walk' on the rounded surface like a regular drill bit. I only used the ball nose cutter to start the holes...after they were started, I swapped the cutter out for a 1.0mm carbide drill bit. I know one thing...no matter how it is done, it sounds a lot easier than it is. Submariner type cases are not as bad but DJ type cases with skinny lugs are a pain. Something else...it seems to me a drill press has better 'feel' when drilling lugs etc. than a milling machine because the screw feed on the milling machine has no 'feel' much at all. If you use a regular drill bit to start the hole, just leave a little of the drill bit sticking out of the chuck when you are starting the hole so the bit does not flex/walk or break as easily...I learned this the hard way. After you get the hole started, pull just enough of the bit out of the chuck to pass through the lug without the chuck jaws hitting the lugs to cut down on flex. You can get by with a cheapo drill press as long as the chuck runs true. Sometimes you have to tighten/loosen/tighten the chuck a few times to get the drill bit to turn without a slight wobble. I made a case holder out of wood to hold the lug sides level. Here is what I used on the 16003 project and I got it on sale a few years ago for $59.99 iirc: https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/drills-drivers/drill-presses/8-in-5-speed-bench-drill-press-60238.html Ball nose cutter example: Shank Ball Nose End Mill Set Carbide 2Flute Spiral Router Bits Engraving Cutter | eBay

As 'automatico'. Finally found my PW for 'automatico'. Long story short...I have my RWG contact info on an email account I use for RWG, watch forums, watch messages etc. and for some reason, my PW for this email account stopped working again sometime in May and I could not get on the account. It has done this a time or two before and it did not matter, but this time it did because I needed to get my RWG PW reset and the reset info is sent to this email address. Catch 22. Why did RWG no longer recognize me as 'automatico'? Because I did a major 'cleanout' on this computer and it all disappeared. I'm not very good with computers. The pizzer is the email account has decided to work again (using the same PW as before) AFTER I found my RWG PW, AFTER looking through my hand written internet PW, notes etc. for the past 25 years, all in a box in no particular order. Besides all that, I paid my membership dues for 'automatico' not long ago.

"I have a truly great copy coming in a week." Replica Aston Martin? Just kiddin'. Post a pic or two when you get the watch. When I was much younger, a guy out the street had a 'Silver Birch' Aston Martin DB5 just like the one James Bond drove and he would wave at me when he drove by. Always wondered what happened to it. Used to be a lot of nice cars around here, now it's all SUVs and pickup trucks.

A 'boxie'... Two NOS 'River' SD from 15+ years back... A little bit 'wokky' but it comes with new swiss ETA 2836, sapphire etc. The 'wok' effect can be reduced by cutting the reflector (rehaut) in a 90 degree angle to the dial for a mm or so. Do that, add oem spec spring bars, and it would make a pretty good watch. There is a pic of a later model no lug holes, no wok SD on page 241 for comparison.

Not a 'wristie' but a 'boxie'. NOS replica quartz Cartier Santos from 2007... Very well made, all stainless with Hattori (Seiko) movement.

"... I think I saw two two pigs fly!" An omen! Portending genuine 18K Submariners and Daytonas are $1199USD for one day only! Yesterday. CDC COVID Data Tracker: Daily and Total Trends

"Interesting how it just vanished overnight. January it was the most deadly disease known to man." I have noticed it too. Call me cynical but Covid 19 vanished because it is not 'needed' right now, at least in the USA imho. "Now it’s all about the war." Yeah. Probably the main reason why C19 is not needed. "Corona who?" It may get famous again before November.

'Executive Decision' Finalized: Thought it over and decided to take the movement out of the 'shortcut 1655' and remove all GMT conversion parts...center wheel, CP, hour wheel, 24H wheel etc. and put it back to a regular date movement. I'll have to press another minute wheel post in the main plate but hopefully that will go smoothly. This movement will go back in the 1603 DJ it originally came out of...pretty nice, no case corrosion at all with a good black dial. Here are the details about changing the 1570/75 date movement over to a 'shortcut' GMT if anyone missed it or cares. Building an MBW Sub + 'shortcut' rlx 1560/70 GMT conversions... - Page 2 - The Rolex Area - RWG Start with post number 8. Next, I'll put another 'combo' swiss ETA movement together similar to my JMB '1016' project using swiss ETA 2836 main plates, hour wheel, CP etc. and 2846 escapement (21600 bph) with an Asian GMT conversion with non-adjustable 24H hand. This will go with the 'shortcut 1655' case/dial set to make a relatively low $$ '1655' for daily wear. Better than the average GMT type replica with a DG 3804 or Asian ETA clone...imho. Here is the info on the JMB '1016' with the combo ETA 2824/2846 movement: JMB '1016' project update... - The Rolex Area - RWG The GMT conversion will be using 2836 plates with 2846 escapement instead of 2824 plates with 2846 escapement. Last, I will put another 'shortcut' GMT movement together using a complete rolex 1570/75 hack movement, J$W case, dial etc to wear, sell, trade, or give away. It will make a first class watch and the 'shortcut' GMT conversion has been fully tested over the past year. They get a bad rap but some of them are pretty good...imho. This will leave me with a full set of nos genuine GMT conversion parts and I have a spare 1570/75 hack movement to make a 'correct' 1575 GMT movement for $ale or trade ($4K to $5K at today's prices). A genuine 1565/75 converted to GMT using all genuine parts is exactly the same as a movement that originally came in a 'four digit' GMT watch as long as the serial number starts with the letter 'D'. The serial number makes little difference on a 50+ year old movement unless someone comes up with the original chronometer certificate/documents with the movement and case serial numbers to prove it is not original to a particular GMT watch. Not many of these documents still exist and not many really care today. Update 5-19-22 Been digging through rlx 15xx movements and parts... The 1570/75 hack movement that was mounted in the J$W '1655' case (mentioned above) before I got it has the minute wheel axle removed and was previously in the '1655' case with the Asian GMT shortcut parts but it did not have the taller genuine center wheel/canon pinion/hour wheel, or a 24H wheel bushing like I used in the 'shortcut 1655'. Because of this, the 24 hour hand was too close to the dial and the 12H and M hands were also too close together. Without the bushing there is also the chance of the 24H wheel slipping out of mesh allowing the 24H hand to get out of correspondence with the 12H time. So...this is the movement I'll put back in the '1655' with the shortcut parts and genuine GMT hour wheel, CP etc. This will make a good watch without using any more genuine GMT parts to convert a 1565/75 to GMT because NOS genuine 1565/75 GMT conversion parts are getting hard to find and high $$, especially a complete set. How did I get the '1655' case? An RWG member and I made a trade in 2011...a Yuki '1680' I got from 'Stilty' for the '1655' case and dial plus extra $$ for the 1570 movement. The movement looks good and since the minute wheel axle has already been removed, I'll c/o the movement and put it back in the J$W case. Comments welcome.

"Speaking of MBW, I recently picked up an MBW 1680 from a fellow who wasn't happy with it- couldn't get a gen crystal to fit." All my MBK cases have oem spec 28.2mm OD case necks. The crystal retaining bezel is 30.15mm ID and I mostly use ST or Clark bezel kits with GS crystals. Never used a genuine crystal on one though. "But typically my Rolex reps these days runs $400-700 with a few mods. It's a rep, not a franken!" That is a very reasonable amount ($1400) to spend on a high quality watch project today, especially with that parts list. Besides that, if you drop it, chances are it will be fine. Can't say that for a 50 year old rolex 15xx movement with ruby rotor bearings and a winding weight that is just barely rivetted to the rotor axle.

Fine looking watch, a Command Performance! "the paint is quite delicate compared to dials offered from yuki or raffles . the very outside edge of the dial chipped quite easily which was a bit of a disappointment It can not be seen when assembled but I expected slightly better for $400 dial." Maybe this happens when the dial and movement shift a bit in the case when pulling/pushing/screwing the crown down if the movement is not tight in the case. I have also put a very small amount of paint on the outer edge of a dial (where it will not show from the front) where it chipped to fill in where the paint popped off and smooth it up a little bit. Maybe the outer edge of the dial seat is a hair too small and chips the paint on the outer edge of the dial (and splinters around to the front) when installing the dial and movement. I've had a few dials do this so I started sanding the dial seat in the case with 1000 sandpaper on the flattened end of a round wooden stick to smooth the mating surface if the dial seat appears to be unusually rough. Did it help? Who knows? It might even contribute to 'dial slip' and cause more scuffing/chipping. Otoh, maybe it lessens the grip on the paint so it will slip rather than scuff/chip. Maybe. Maybe the dial plate is too slick or contaminated, maybe the paint just does not stick or is chalky. Maybe touching or holding the edge of the dial with bare fingers can get skin oil etc. on the paint and soften it. What causes it? Who knows for sure? I have no answer, just a bunch of maybes. Maybe MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts will study the problem and come up with a solution. Maybe not.

For the DJ above. One up front, two out back... NOS from 2011, A7750. Three of a kind (more or less)... Left...sec @ 6 from 2011. Center...sec @ 9 from 2006. Right...sec @ 6 from 2011. All A7750, all nos, all will still run (small miracle). All still wrapped in plastic, had to remove it to put one on for the 'wristie'.

RWG is the paper and my posts on this subject are just the pencil that started writing the story. Freddy and Alligoat have sharpened the pencil and turned the page. Where I only expressed my side of the story, their comments show valid reasons both for and against assembling Frankensteins in general. I fully agree with both. I am not moving over to 'anti-Frankensteinism' but have moved slowly away from 'chasing the dream' of the 'non rolex' rolex. Slowly being the key word. "Placing a gen movement into a rep/aftermarket case with a rep/aftermarket dial/handset does not make a lot of sense because it will have little effect on the look & feel of the franken. On the other hand, powering a gen dial/handset in a rep/aftermarket case with a gen movement takes the enterprise to a much higher level since what you see & feel is gen." And... "Second watch is an 1803 watch in SS. Picked up a 1556 movement on the bay with a silver day and date wheel for a good price, a redone white dial with silver stick markers and got a 16000 DJ case that Phong modified to accept the 1556 movement. A white dialed 1803 in SS. I love the watch- it flies below the radar. I'm wearing it on a 93150 and call it the Sportman's Day Date." Two very good reasons for 'chasing the dream' and I appreciate it. I still feel the same way about it but time has slowed me down a little and I have pulled back on projects. Besides that, it is the beginning of Summertime!, the grass and weeds are growing, and the porches need painting. Tending to it all will be taking up a lot of my 'spare' time for the next six months. Looking back at my opening post...maybe it was really (subconsciously?) aimed at members, forum surfers etc. who have entered the replica scene in the past few years and want to put a 'Four Digit Frankenstein' watch together with a genuine movement etc. but do not realize the pitfalls lurking in these projects and the $$ it takes to put one together today. I should have stated this up front but left it out. After all, guys like us who are 'addicted' to this 'hobby' are undeterred by the difficulties and cost of these endeavors. Below is a repost about the actual cost of an F-stein '5513' project I put together 10 or 11 years ago. It ended up costing about $1300. Compare it to how much the same watch would cost today. Double at least, maybe triple. Btw, it is still apart in the same box. Thanks for the replies, the more the merrier! Here is the info on one of my MBK 5513 projects a few years ago, 2011 or 2012 iirc (I have posted this before). It ended up costing about $1300. I still have it but it is apart right now. $300 or less for case (can not remember exact $$, got it from a member) $102 for Yuki dial $25 for TC tube and crown $12 for ST hands $650 for 26 jewel rolex 1520 hack mvt $20 for mainspring etc. $0 for c/o (did it myself) $85 for fake 358 hoods and put together '93150' bracelet, also have a folded oyster from 'Mary' that adds up to about the same $12 for GS crystal $68 for ST bezel kit (better fit than MBK bez with the GS crystal that was used) $25 misc...spring bars, gaskets, case screws etc.