automatico

I like the models with lug holes, they are modern classics. Just be sure there is no case corrosion. The new models with thicker lugs, 'ratchet hasp' and ceramic bezels are geared toward current fashion imho. They all look (to me) like the guy wearing one just bought it. Keep in mind this is from a four digit acrylic slow set guy.

Measured Yuki 5512/13 and IG44 1680 cases...all are 1.25mm high. Probably oem spec. A DW case measured a hair lower. Unknown cartel was 1.0mm. Not all cartel cases will be the same because of different case makers. All case necks measure 28.2mm except the DW at 28.15. Have seen a couple DW at 28.12, none at 28.2. All Yuki and MBK case necks have been 28.2mm on the dot. Did not measure MBK case neck height because they have crystals/bezels mounted. Yuki, IG44, and MBK are all very high quality. DW is high quality but a bit out of spec. All have very good fit and finish. Most cartel cases are good for the price in my experience but lug holes are often too high or too low and can be close to the edge when drilled to 1.25/1.3mm...they are hit or miss. A 1.0mm high case neck should make no difference under normal conditions.

I have never worked on one but owned quite a few new and used Omega Speedmasters in 1996/97 when they stuck the 2894-2W in 'Michael Schumacher' watches. They were usually good for a few years, much longer if you did not run the chronograph. The basic movement (2892 base) was Ok so they should run for years just to tell time but when the chrono module gums up it may drag the movement down with it...I do not know for sure. I remember the watches caused so much trouble that Rich's Department Stores were blowing them out for $499 (or less) and NAWCC shows were covered up with them, both new and 'factory referbs'. My guess is one 12 or 15 years old is probably ready for service if you can find someone to tackle the little DD contraption...or you could have the movement c/o and still wear the watch for years if it will run Ok with a gummy module. I've heard regular repair guys can not get the chrono modules. That is just hearsay but I have never seen them for sale.. All the chronoguts in these things are crammed under the dial making the date look like it is down in a well...one easy way to spot them. A friend who is an Ace watch repair guy described them as "Suisse Junque at its Finest". I guess you can tell I am not much of a mechanical chronograph guy. H&W Perrin Co. in Canada has the 2894-2W movement for a little over $1000 USD. ST has them for about $825. A brand new one on eBay is $510: item number 232261821049 http://www.ablogtowatch.com/inside-dubois-depraz-empire-of-the-watch-movement-module/ https://omegaforums.net/threads/tinkering-with-a-dubois-depraz-module.38806/

A sticky reverser usually results in 'rotor spin' when hand winding. Sounds like you are having 'rotor spin' from power coming from the mainspring (if I understand the problem correctly). The 2824/36 is basically a manual wind 2801 with an auto device stuck on top so if the mainspring is unwinding, something is allowing the MS barrel to turn backwards. The reversers on an Eta 28xx do not prevent the mainspring from unwinding...the 'click' does and it is mounted next to the crown wheel. The rotor is spinning because mainspring power is getting back to the auto wind assembly. Check the click and click spring to make sure they are working properly to lock the crown wheel and keep the mainspring from unwinding...hand wind the watch slowly and see if the click locks into the teeth on the crown wheel every time the wheel moves (and when hand winding pressure is taken off of the winding crown). Also make sure the crown wheel is free on its post. If it sticks on the post, the mainspring can unwind because the two wheels are not in mesh (you will not feel this...no 'rotor spin', just a slight screeching noise from the MS barrel unwinding). If the crown wheel post gets badly worn it may not hold the crown wheel in the correct position and this can also cause problems. Some reverser info: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/lubricating-reversing-wheels-eta-2836-2-a-3600882.html

"It's a trial and error thing, you get the feel of how tight a ring should be only by doing it." +1 First step is to be sure the case neck is 28.2mm and the crystal is very close to oem spec. Next step is to make sure the crystal retaining bezel is a proper fit over the crystal (have to learn this by trial and error as stated above). Then it is up to how good the rotating bezel fits over the crystal retaining bezel. For what it's worth (nothing), I installed and removed a ST/Clark/watchman 408 rotating bezel over the crystal retainer bezel 30 or 40 times to see if it would become loose enough to be easy to knock off (all parts from the same kit). The answer is No. It still fits fine, has the proper tension when turning, and has no tendency to get knocked off. After installation, the trick to preserving 'tightness' is to always use a spacer/tension washer and push down on the rotating bezel when turning it. Pushing down greatly reduces friction and wear where the rotating bezel is snapped onto the crystal retaining bezel. Sometimes the tension washer can be a real headache and I have had to reduce the OD, enlarge the ID, and/or thin them down quite a few times. If you have a rotating bezel that turns Ok most of the way around but has a tight spot or two, you can smear Simichrome polish etc between them and turn the bezel back and forth a few dozen times and it will usually loosen up. Sometimes you have to replace the polishing compound 3 or 4 times. Be sure to remove the rotating bezel and clean all the polishing paste off when finished. Use a thick rubber glove for traction when turning the bezel through the tight spots. A very thin coat of liquid dishwashing soap will also help the crystal retaining bezel slip over the crystal and when it dries it is no longer very slick. Besides that, you can rinse most of it away under warm water when finished, unlike grease. You do not want any lubricant at all between the crystal and case neck for two reasons: 1...It may travel onto the dial. 2...It can make the crystal and both bezels easy to knock off of the case neck in one piece. A bit of grease between the rotating bezel and crystal retaining bezel will smooth out the action for a while but it collects dirt over time and turns into grinding compound. I have had the best luck with ST/Clark/watchman 408 bezel kits...the ones with the matte finish. MBK kits that come on the watches have been hit or miss. Never used a WSO kit. Genuine can be hit or miss too.

"If you are just going for the size/look the easiest thing would be to use a mid-size rep Tudor case as it will accept a 2836..." +1

"IF SOMEONE HAS 5513/12 BUILD OUT OF 1680 CASE, PLEASE POST THEM HERE ! THANK YOU!" You may not be able to tell by looking. For instance, I have an MBK '5512' made out of an MBK '5512' case that is exactly the same as an MBK '1680' case. Also have an MBK '5513' in an MBK '5513' case that is also identical to the MBK '1680' and '5512' case in every way. They are exactly alike but you must use a thicker 1680 date movement to make a '5512/13' out of one. They are basically oem 1680 spec with a dial window/dial seat cut for a 26.0mm 5512/13 dial. Have a few old (15 year old) Abay 1680 cases (close to the same as many of today's cartel cases) and they all had swiss eta 2836 no matter if the watch was a 5513/14, 1680, or 1665. Only difference was the He valve and bezel. All are made for a 26.5mm to 28.0mm dial because they have a 26.0mm dial window with an oversize 28.0mm dial seat. The He valves are oem spec and the case back gasket groove is cut in the case like a 1665. The point is they all look exactly alike but may be 5513/14/1680, or 1665 with only a thicker bezel. There are 4 basic types of 1680 cases: 1...Genuine. A 1680 mvt/dial combo will not work in a 5512/13 case and 5512/13 mvt/dial combo will not work in a 1680 case. 2...Yuki, Phong etc. High grade cases made to oem specs. The 1680 and 55xx cases are different, (internally at least) with different dial seats/dial windows/location of case tube center (maybe). Do not know if the movement/dial combo thickness difference is made up in the front of the case or the back side. 3...Cartel. Not 100% accurate to genuine and not always the same from one order to the next from the same dealer or between dealers. May use the same case for 1680 date watches and no date 5512/13 watches by using the same basic movement with or without the date works and same diameter dials. Swiss or clone Eta 2836 for instance. 4...Specialty. 'Out of oem spec' cases such as DW, MBK etc. See the sticky above.

"I'm not an expert, but what I believe is that which ever one is the matte finish, that you have to polish.....That is a Swiss made one. So it has a great fit. So Clark's and a few others sell it I believe. I bought one and the retaining ring it comes with fits the bezel perfectly. Polishing it easy enough." Here they are for $79: eBay item number: 122385973182

"They should make 15xx movement replicas too." +1 Or at least a good quality slow beat movement the right size that would accept oem spec dials, date wheels, and hands...along with a no date version.

I like the In House Black Bay just fine but it has the same problem as all genuine rolex products along with about 90% of the other swiss brands...No Parts and Very High $ervice Cost. I see this getting worse, not better in the future. By the time the 'birth year' recipient is 18, it may cost $2k for a routine c/o...if rolex is still in business. I would never encourage anyone to buy a new watch for a future gift, especially if you plan to wear it now. A new red Corvette maybe... Buying a new IHBB for investment to be sold as nos 18 years from now might net a profit though. Example: I bought a nib 6694 in June 1989 for $900...I still have it nos, what is it worth now? About $2500 maybe. Not much of a return but the BB may be a hotter item in 18/20 years. I did not buy the 6694 for the future, I just never wore it. Something to think about. I can get by with wearing vintage 1960s/1970s 15xx base 'youth-years' rolex and Frankensteins only because I have a stash of parts and can work on them myself. I could not afford them otherwise. ...and I'm too old for a 'birth year' rolex.

"Guys it is in the software, admin will fix it as soon as he gets the patch." Thanks!

I can not post this in the proper thread because I can not bring up page 2, 3 etc on any post no matter what. I can go to the first page of any thread only by clicking on the subject, clicking on 1 will not work. So I can only get the first page and not 'the rest of the story'. Other glitches: Can not directly post a reply or start a new topic most of the time so I have to put it on Word Pad and paste it to RWG. My favorites also will not work when on RWG...they come up for a couple seconds and go off. It does not do this on any other site. Win 10 Home Edition

Imho it would probably be easier and less $$ to go with a ready made 31mm replica and not go to the expense of a genuine dial. Since there is no way to know if a genuine dial will work with an Eta 2836 (date offset, dial window/seat OD etc) the project may be doomed from the start because many replicas have oversize dials. Many times projects using genuine dials are a downhill run because they will not fit replica cases and cutting dial feet off makes the dial worth a lot less. Btw...genuine rolex 31mm watches use lady size watch movements and the watch in the link is said to have a 'swiss' eta 2836...a close fit as the case is 31mm and the movement is 26.0mm so that only leaves 2.5mm case thickness for case back/case tube threads etc.

The first replica forum I was on was RWCC (Replica Watch Collector Club) in the mid 1990s and iirc it had maybe 30 or 40 active members...all calm and laid back with a few women included (Caanie!). It went south and I joined TRC (member 42). It fizzled out and I joined RWG in May 2007 under my TRC name and rejoined as 'automatico' in July 2008 when a glitch/meltdown prevented me from logging in under my original name. Still here Still have a few replicas from before the internet replica forums that I bought out of USA Today ads...Swiss Eta 2846 steel DJ, $75 delivered from NYC. 'Like New' steel 'Jaques Prevard' submariner 'store return' look-alikes with swiss Eta 2846 were $500 a dozen. Still have 2 or 3 plus a few new quartz models (qtz were $25 each, contract made with Citizen mvt). Later on Yahoo auctions...Asian powered steel DJ/ExII/GMT $68 delivered from a guy called 'Cal' before 24H hand GMTs were anywhere to be found. Nice guy. He had a sale on steel automatic DJ with Seagull ST16 for $55 each delivered. I still have a few and they are the exact same 'Monarchpolfy S-A Gelena Shitinerand' cases we sometimes see today. This was 20 years ago so they must have made thousands of those cases. Before that, all I could find were 'potmetal' quartz replica DJ/Prez/submariners at trade shows, flea markets etc for $25 to $50...I called them 'blisterbusters' because the plating bubbled up and blistered your wrist. Steel models were $65 or $75 if you could find one. Most had quartz Harley Ronda movements. Things sure have changed. Anyone heard from Stilty?

"Unless you need the convenience there is no point. You will not damage your movement by letting the watch sit in a drawer. No need for all the wear and tear. On the other hand, especially if your watch is hard to set, it can be nice to have one around. Keep it cheap...all it needs to do is spin." True. They don't wear out when they are parked. What will cause wear in the long run is allowing them to run down and setting/hand winding them constantly. Running the hands around to find am or pm when setting calendars causes a lot of wear on canon pinions and before too long the cp will get loose...eventually loose enough that the watch runs but the hour and minute hands do not move. I have fixed a lot of these problems over the years and slow set models are the worst by far. Hand winding automatics is usually not very good for them because many (most probably) are designed where the a/w parts are spinning faster than usual when hand winding causing undue wear to reversers etc. I have seen Eta 28xx that have been hand wound so much that the reversers were shot and the little oval shaped boss cast on the main plate where the crown wheel turns is worn half way off the plate and the Val/Eta 7750 does not like to be hand wound (with all the a/w parts attached). The rolex 3135 is also famous for wear on a post cast on the main plate that can wear away from constant setting and lax service. The article below explains it and shows one worn half way off: http://www.chronometrie.com/rolex3135/rolex3135.html If I wear a mechanical watch it is usually a no date model but with date models I note if they stop on am or pm and if it really matters (a 'good' watch), I may shake it a few times now and then while it is parked and keep up with the time it stops and try to have it stop between 8 and 11 in the am. That way I can set the date and the hour will not be far off if I want to wear it...no cranking the hands around and around hunting am. Mechanical watches are having a hard time with current lifestyles because they were made to be worn during a point in time when things were much different...life in general was much more relaxed and owners were more aware of the inherent troubles of the mechanical watch through magazine ads, long experience with mechanical watches etc. There were also repair shops in every town and parts were widely available. Not so today. Mechanical watches are basically novelties today...fragile and expensive dinosaurs from the 1930s/1940s/1950s forced into the fast and furious 2000s by fashion. "A Rolex can take anything your arm can take." Q...If that is true why do they have one of the biggest repair networks in the world? A...Because they break a lot and cost too much to throw away.

"I wore my marathon diver for almost 10 years in that environment, and I don't see any pitting of corrosion." Marathon! I always liked Marathon watches and have a Marathon 'SAR/CCG' (Search And Rescue/Canadian Coast Guard) watch the MWR forum had made 10 or 12 years ago. This style of watch (matte finished steel, 200MWR, non screw down crown, plastic bezel, Eta 2824) was made under contract for Marathon by Horoswiss in Switzerland and it is built like an Army tank. Horoswiss also made a lot of the higher quality Swiss Army watches. The MWR Forum had 65 special made with 'sterile' dials for members. They are exactly like the examples in the links except for the dials and the case backs...they have MWR engraved on the backs. Might see one for sale every now and then on MWR etc. I guess (hope) they are collector items now. http://broadarrow.net/ccg.htm http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?md=read;id=53688 "I just noticed someone said 304 stainless. So we're 1665 only 304 stainless instead of 316? That may be why cases corroded." I noticed that too. Maybe 304 corrodes quicker than 316. "my point being is that you cannot just think about the saltwater that these watches are in contact with. you also need to consider the PH of the human wearing it." I knew a guy whose stainless steel watches all looked 20 years old in a couple years because of this. The back sides of the cases looked like he worked in a battery acid factory.

There is a recent post on VRF about a 1655 case being not genuine but still passing through RSC service titled "Buyer claimed my post after more then one year" but what attracted my attention were the remarks about 1655 cases being prone to seizing because of corrosion or galling. I did not suspect this at all. http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/thread/1487782568/last-1487949986/View+All A lot of genuine rolex watches have passed through my greedy little mitts in the past 40+ years and the cases I have seen corroded more than any were 16xx DJ and 16xxx DJ, probably because I have owned a lot of them but they still seem to be the worst in my experience. I have not owned many vintage watersport models (submariners) but have owned quite a few modern watersport subs/GMT/Exp II (1980s/1990s mostly) and very few of them were corroded enough to amount to anything. This of course means nothing much at all because: 1... For one thing I live a few hundred miles from salt water (where watches are actually worn in salt water). 2...I try to look each watch over so I do not get a 'rip-rot special' if I can help it. One thing to look for is black specks around the mid case under the hoods between the lugs. This is often a sign of corrosion...you can not tell how bad it really is, just that it is present. It can go from insignificant to deadly and sometimes can be bad enough to let water in the case. I had an old 16xx DJ with a tiny black speck under the bezel and it was letting water in the case when it was pressure tested. I would have not paid much attention to it but a stream of bubbles shot out from under the bezel. Something else to look at are the areas on the case and case back where the gasket seals up. One side may look new and the other side may be rotted out so it is always a good idea to remove the gasket and take a look. This is why some 'watch for sale' pictures will show the case or case back with the gasket in place...one side is good, the other not so much. The best way to prevent corrosion is to not wear the watch (Ha!) or be sure to lubricate the gasket with silicone 7 or something similar. The best way to prevent thread galling or seizure! is to use a little bit of lithium base lubricant on the threads. The high priced lubricant used by rolex (Fomblin) is basically high grade lithium vacuum pump grease. Krytox makes lubricants similar to Fomblin but usually at lower prices. Something else: the smoother the machining around gasket areas...the less corrosion usually develops. I've said all the above before but the 1655 info is news to me and maybe you too. Btw...in general, what brands of vintage cases have I seen that seem to hold up the best? Mostly Bulova. The worst? Vintage Wyler and older models of all brands made back when stainless steel first became popular just after WW II. 　 　 　 　 　

"Yeah, Josh always delivers. Everything should be fine." +1 Everything is probably Ok. Otoh, I am still waiting on a couple watches from watchlover david from 2001.

"There is always STP." I like Fossil/STP because: 1...They make good lower and mid priced watches. 2...They are trying to bring the Zodiac Sea Wolf back to life. The ZSW is one of my all time favorites except for the snap on case back and they fixed that. 3...They have the guts to go up against swatch with their swiss made etaclones. "My heart bleeds for them and in all their righteous indignation about cheap inferior Chinese movements they quite forget to mention that the Swiss industry got started by making cheap, inferior copies of British movements." They made thousands of fake American Railroad style pocket watches with similar brand names too. They are known as 'swiss fakes'. http://mb.nawcc.org/showwiki.php?title=Swiss_Fake

The swatch crazies are at it again. http://www.ablogtowatch.com/swatch-group-increase-prices-uk/ Sales are Down! Raise Prices! I bet this works just like their last genius move: "We are selling all the movements we can make!" "So we will make 10% less this year and 20% less next year!" That'll teach 'em!'' (three years later) "What do you mean some of the watch companies are making their own movements?" "They cant!" "What do you mean Why Not?" "Because we make their damn hairsprings!" Three years later: "What do you mean Eta movements are stacking up in the warehouse and not selling?" "Jack up the prices!" "Make 'em bleed!" I love to see these haughty p-ricks twisting and turning. Looks like they have never figured out they are making an obsolete 1950s product that no one needs, while making them cheaper per unit than ever thanks to automation (adjusted for inflation), meanwhile trying to sell them at today's hyper inflated swizz watch prices to buyers that are just as smart (or smarter) than the average French wine swilling watch company CEO. The comments are good, showing that no one is being fooled. Five percent is not much at all but it shows swatch is going to jack up prices every time the pound drops against the peso...I mean swizz franc, but they will never lower prices. Here is how I feel about it: "A Toyota is not a Lexus but every Lexus is a Toyota." "A Swatch is not a Breguet, but every Breguet is a Swatch." Substitute Breguet for Omega, Longines, Rado, Hamilton, Tissot etc.

"I'm still amazed that the outdated or patent ended old Rolex or Tudor cases are not officially made by third parties. It sure would simplify things." They are being made...Yuki, Phong, MBK, cartel etc. They are illegal only because they have trademarks. Remove the trademarks and they are 100% legal. Otoh...if you send a 100% genuine 5513/1680 etc to RSC and it needs a mid case, they will sell you one for $2500+/-. What is the real world difference between this $2500 mid case and a Phong mid case for $900, both with genuine case backs? Nothing. If you had the original serial number engraved on the Phong case, the watch would be worth quite a bit more 'out in the wilds' than the same watch with a genuine RSC '444' case...until you tell the truth about it. A '444' case will probably never be worth as much as an original case...or a Phong etc case after the second or third owner. It's a fact of life. No telling how many aftmkt cased watches are out there being 'innocently' sold as genuine every day. Back 25 years ago when a 5513 or 1680 went for $1500 or so, I used to see 'dealers' buying them at watch shows by the dozen. They would take them home and make 'premium' watches using the 'best of the best' cases/dials/movements/bracelets, have them professionally detailed, and sell them as 'mint' or 'near mint' for a LOT of $$ to 'serious' collectors. Then they would put what was left together in ascending order and sell the best examples on mail order lists sent out to regular collectors. The worst examples usually ended up for sale back at watch shows or parted out. If you have a 'vintage' rolex and you did not buy it new...you might have a Frankenstein. If Ya can't get married to yer sweetheart cause there is a law against it...you might be a redneck.

"Where did you find an open 6/9 for a 3135? I searched for a year and couldn't find one." My 'original' L457xxx 16233 3135 DJ has open 6 and 9 so many of the older models probably had them. 'original' = never cleaned/oiled since new 1989/1990, still runs Ok. Not worn since January 2008. Q...Why not? A...It's a tutone!

Just now checked the genuine tudor dial and it is a matte black 200 meter Eta date dial but it is only 25.5mm (!) in diameter so this is why I abandoned the project in 2004 ('quit' date written on the dial tin)...the Abay case is made for 26.5 mm dials. I have no idea what reference number the genuine case would be for this dial. The dial is fair with light marks on it so if I could ever find a case it would be Ok to use.

"I'm currently thinking about buying Phong's complete 7016..." If 'complete' = a running watch, I wonder if the case is the same high grade case as their $1000+ empty 7016 cases? My guess is No. I do not know prices on the complete watches ($1100?) but do know approximately how much the empty cases go for. "Probably as good as it gets with an $1100 budget." My one tudor submariner project stalled out about 10 or 12 years ago after I gathered up a used genuine tudor dial (I have forgotten the case reference number it is for) along with a replica tudor case back and an Abay case that will accept a genspec crystal etc but never finished it. Up to that point I had about $250 in it but it still needed a movement, hands, crystal, bezel kit, case tube/crown/gaskets so $1100 for a finished watch is not too bad. .

Thanks for the kind words! Added 2-14-17 Fitting bezels on 5512/13/1680 etc: 1...If you plan to do much crystal fitting, you will need a precision digital caliper, not a $12.99 cheapo, a good one...if you do not have one already. 2...Measure the OD of the crystal after it is pushed down on the case neck...write it down. Measuring a loose crystal is usually not going to give an accurate measurement. 3...Measure the ID of the inner (crystal retaining) bezel...write it down. 4...The inner crystal retaining bezel needs to be around .1mm to .2 mm smaller than the crystal (measured on the watch). 5...Use a heavy duty bezel press with metal dies if possible, plastic dies are usually too flimsy. You will soon develop a 'feel' for proper fit. Mine is an old Japan made 'BB' press from way back and now reproductions are available at 'affordable' prices. Here are BB styles with tapered and straight wall dies and you can find these presses at reasonable prices if you look around. The second listing has a much better price. http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product12034.html http://collectionsmall.stores.yahoo.net/wacaprcrprwi.html Here is a cheapo model that might be Ok: https://www.amazon.com/Watch-Crystal-Press-Watchmaker-Repair/dp/B000RB3HRU The frame is probably made out of 'pot metal'. BB type bases are made out of cast iron. The general rule is cheapo tools = broken parts....but not always. Imho... Genuine crystals are over rated, especially on project watches. I have used GS crystals for 40 years and never had any problems and their crystals for vintage no date submariners come in 4 or 5 sizes. Sternkreuz are Ok too but sometimes not a precision fit. Like I said many times before...when you find a crystal that fits...buy 3 of them. Many no name 'internet' crystals are out of spec, sometimes from one batch to the next. Many no name internet bezel kits are not too hot either. The better sets come from Clark, watchman408 (on eBay) and ST in my experience. Better = they fit.