kanerich

I think that the vendors have gain too much, selling those that is worth 50 to 200 300 400 ecc.. only because prints on dial crown rolex.

See, they are just like real Rolexes!

But seriously, the economics of making and selling reps has been covered a lot on this site and others. Suffice it to say, yes, people pay more for Chinese watches if they are fakes of more valuable gens, yes, the dealers on this site and others try to make money (the swine!), yes, it's possible to make better reps. No, that doesn't mean anything illegal is going on. Well, except for the whole enterprise I guess. Hope that helps! You might considering writing your representative in Parliament and ask him to do something about getting better counterfeit products for your money, I hear that gets the ball rolling sometimes.

I want to get some reps but don't want to pay any money, can anyone help me? As long as you're at it, please send any spare hot chicks my way too. Thanks in advance!

I've never really understood the "modern" MBW thing, ever since Luckyyy started selling them. It was never made clear to me what they had over regular Chinese subs, and I think people were afraid to call him out because he was easy to [censored] off and his classic MBW's at least were the real deal. He also sold the "cheap modern" MBW as I recall for around $100 with an Asian miyota movement! What was that crap? I could never tell whether he just simply called everything he sold MBW or not.

Interesting that a blog that calls itself "information on Panerai and Rolex replicas" features a photo of a VC Overseas. Consistency is all I ask for in life . . .

By the way, how are we supposed to look for him here (see the "about me" section) when he doesn't say who he is?

Is just it me or does it seem like members often give up on trying to find good sub (or SD) reps and just end up buying the real thing? And Rolex claims nothing good ever comes out of the counterfeit industry.

Getting worked up about replica makers not making "perfect" reps is like getting mad at Holiday Inn for not being as fancy as Ritz-Carlton . . . to some degree you have to accept that in life, you pays youse money and makes youse choices. Yeah, the better they get the better for us but it seems a little weird to get in arms about it. You can buy fake watches if you like what you see, or you can not. It's not like they're watering down baby formula or something.

Frankly, some of the reps (Pams, the FA Jones) are scary close considering they are 1/20th to 1/50th the price of the gen. And the fake Rolexes are pretty good at often 1/20th or less although I agree that once you start paying $400-500 they should be better than pretty good. I'm just not outraged about it. I have occasionally gotten worked up about people using the term "perfect," but that's another story.

Saying 'For all those...' doesn’t point fingers at anyone in particular and I certainly do not ‘accuse’ members since I never even mentioned members. It was just a general statement and there were several threads on this and it was very confusing until the 228 was pointed out as being closest to what was being sold which is exactly what I indicated.

I would not call it a fantasy watch ether just because of the existing flaws. We don’t call most other replicas ‘fantasy watches’ with all their listed flaws. Yes, there are some issues like the text and I cannot tell if the case is brushed or not on what Ttk is selling so will see when it arrives.

Flaws and all, I like the watch.

Usil

Again, I don't disagree this is a sharp looking watch, and I appreciate you pointing out it looks most like the 228. One can't help wishing that the factories took the slight extra trouble to make the dial print the same as the 228 since it's just about there as you point out.

However, I have to say that your statement that you "never even mentioned members" is a bit confusing. You referred in your post to "all those who indicate this is a flawed 89" -- if you are not referring to members such as myself who pointed out the flaws, then who, pray, are you referring to? You are clearly writing in response to something, and I doubt any of the dealers went out of their way to indicate this was a flawed 89. So if not members, than whom? I understand you're not referring to me particularly or intending to criticize but to say your statement came out of a complete vacuum is unpersuasive to me.

Finally, calling this watch a "fantasy watch" -- you say no, I say yes. It probably is just a matter of semantics but to me if a maker intentionally mixes and matches aspects of various gens to create a watch that doesn't actually attempt to replicate any particular gen model, it's a fantasy watch. If you faithfully copy a gen but simply whiff on some details that's a rep. An obvious example of a fantasy watch being aspire's "summer blue Sub" which combines the blue bezel insert and dial of a TT blue sub with a SS case and bracelet. Another example is the SS Seawolf which simply does not have a gen counterpart. To me this new "89" isn't an 89, it's not a 228 but borrows from both -- voila, fantasy watch. albeit a nice one. If you prefer to call it a somewhat inaccurate 228 or a very inaccurate 89, I see where you're coming from, but to me that's no more or less apropos than simply calling it a fantasy watch.

For all those indicating this is a flawed PAM 89 rep - PAM 89 is Titanium, blue face with black subdial. If SS, blue face and blue subdial then this is PAM 228, so wrong comparison.

Ttk's offer is closer to the PAM 228 and I could not resist, so I bought it. Beautiful watch.

Neil's offer

and here is...

PAM 228

Usil

Uhh . . . it's the dealers who are calling this a PAM 89, so I'm not sure why you accuse members of wrongly "indicating" this is a 89 rep.

It's not exactly a 228 as the dial print is not quite right then, although I agree it's closer to 228 than the 89. Again, this is a very pretty watch but it's basically a fantasy model.

I'm also guessing the Tag would not be called as a rep but the IWC might? Plus I do like GMT watches a lot for some strange reason.

I assume you mean because the Aquatimer rep is not as accurate as the Link so it is less likely to pass the eyeball test? I certainly don't think people are generally more suspicious of IWC's than TAGs, and the latter is more commonly repped -- usually low end quartz reps to match TAG's low end prestige image. I doubt most people would suspect IWC's because 1) they've never heard of them; 2) it seems counterintuitive to non watch-lovers (said most people) to wear a replica of a brand that isn't at all well known compared to Rolex, Omega et al.

I actually like a number of TAGs, but many of them, as with many Omegas, are priced in that no-man's land around $1200-1500 where the gen/rep value equation feels a bit iffy to me.

Nice looking watches. Only flaws I see is that the GMT hand is a bit shorter then gen; the triangle on the GMT hand is slightly different in shape; the "swiss made" is supposed to be on either side of thte 12 marking, not beneath; and the usual date font and crown guard issues. Also, the PAM 89 has an anthracite dial, which is not the same as the rep's blue dial. Still, would be a nice watch once the price hits sub-$300.

One other big difference you didn't mention -- the gen 89 is titanium . . . although it's a very pretty watch the rep "89" is basically a fantasy watch, rather than a proper 89 rep. Not that it's a terrible thing.

I've had pretty good luck with my Asian 7750's so far. But then I don't really wear them that much so that may be saving them some wear and tear.

But in any case isn't it possible to get new Asian 7750's for around $50 or less? So if you have several watches with that movement, it seems to me that playing the odds against for any one particular watch to fail and replacing any movements that you need to is more cost effective than servicing all your watches. Just my two cents.

Interestingly enough, I brought the watch to work today to show a WIS client of mine and the f*cking pearl fell out of it.

Funny you should mention that, the pearl on 187 I returned had a small piece missing from it -- not big enough to raise a stink with EL, but big enough to annoy me. Hopefully I'll get a better pearl this time . . .

So, why do I buy Reps? Because the same level of quality isn't available from a 'name brand' for anywhere near the same money.

I guess I have to ask what that ultimately means. Tissot or Seiko will sell you auto dive watches that are well built and much better in terms of out of the box function (e.g. water resistance) than rep dive watches, at the same price or much less. As with your Hamilton, even Swiss Valjoux 7750's can be had for basically the same price as reps using the same movement. And that's even while supporting a dealer network, offering a warranty and paying taxes and complying with employment/manufacturing standards. I suppose you will say those aren't 'name brands' but then the catch-22 is that if Rolex and Omega started selling Subs and SMP's at $300, they would be perceived as low-prestige watches and people would just knock off something else. So it's self-defeating for those companies to go downmarket, even for the consumers who desire them. It does seem to come down to getting perceived as more expensive without paying that money, what you're describing is not necessarily a quality/function issue as I see it.

Collecting reps is also the best way to keep your wife in the dark when you buy a gen without her permission . . .

I wore the TT datejust I received from my father regularly for about 3 years . . . it's about $6000 new these days. I never felt much risk since everybody probably just thought it was a Seiko or fake. Before I got into reps I wore my Explorer II as my daily watch, again not a big attention getter. Which is not to say I felt comfortable wearing either into dark alleys, but certainly not an issue for work, nights out etc.

I think people tend to make too big a deal with gens . . . a Rolex is like a nice car or anything else you treat yourself to . . . at first you're like "wow" but eventually it's just part of your stuff and you can either use it or not but you don't think much of it. Unless you way overreached with your finances when buying it in which case you probably shouldn't have bought it.

PAM253 1950 Flyback Regatta as Rep ?

Hi All,

What do you think about that if you can buy that ???

priebe

I'm guess soon I could buy it if I was so inclined, since it seems pretty straightforward to rep. I doubt I personally would since I already have the very, very similar 212 but it's very nice.

Another hat in the perfect ultimate best Sub ring . . . and we STILL can't get one good SD rep, or a perfect ultimate best Sub with correct crown guards, bezel insert (every sub rep I've seen including TW best is more curved than gen) or SEL's. I welcome competition . . . all I can say is, for $500 that better be a pretty good perfect ultimate best Sub.

And I still think it's a flat-out bad idea to operate this business from the US. The road to lost reps is paved with good intentions.

Has anyone with marker issues gotten a replacement bezel yet? It's really killing me I can't wear this watch.

What's happening with yours? I'm still waiting -- I ended up having to send the entire watch back for a swap . . .

I may go for 036, but Arktos is still very tempting. @Sunzero01, very nice pics. Arktos looked very good.

DEcisions, decisions...

Sly Stallone is like 5'7 and Orlando Bloom and Pierce Brosnan are tall but pretty slim guys, so I don't think you have to be a certain size or shape to carry off Pams. Lots of celebrities have started wearing them here in Japan . . . on the average you don't get less big and tall than Japanese dudes. Of course a ton of them also still sport giant Bon Jovi heads of hair and wear belt buckles and necklaces that look like something they bought in the bargain bin at the Renaissance Pleasure Faire (but probably cost thousands) so I'm not sure that Japanese fashion provides any guidance outside of this country.

I say start with a three pack, say 036, 183 and the Arktos and stop kidding yourself that it matters much which one you get first . . . it won't be your last.

forget it

lol

Based on the one I got, apparently it is quite difficult.

I often do wonder just how many customs officers have confiscated reps on their wrists...

I imagine a lot, but not as many as the number of New Orleans cops with Hurricane Katrina loot in their houses . . .

It's all about making money... and this is a clever way to make some money from reps legally.

I'm not sure you got what I was saying. Publishing the Replica Report is a legit way to make money, and I already said that I don't care about that . . . in fact I defended him on that issue before when people accused him of selling out the rep community.

However, that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm concerned about the so-called Best 100 Reps site, especially when it includes hardcore scammers like replicacenter. You might as well create databases of marijuana dealers or fake ID vendors as far any law enforcement is concerned. It's delusional to think that because reps are popular somehow they have stopped being illegal. Richard looks like an ass with his increasing promotional attempts make himself the internet kingpin of the rep world when at the same time he claims in his book that he disapproves of reps and is just involved just to collect data for his book. Not that that was ever exactly true, but it's one thing to spin what you're doing, it's another to be a complete hypocrite. If you're saying I can't change my opinion of Richard on that basis, I beg to differ.

I respect Richard Brown but I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would want to create something like this. First, there aren't *100* sites worth talking about when it comes to reps. Second, google reps and all the sites worth talking about pop up instantly. Third, why create a giant database of sites hosting illegal transactions -- what possible benefit could come out of it for the rep world?

I retract some of my previous defense for RB, his crusade to take reps into the mainstream seems increasingly bizarre. It's not like it's become more legal or anything.

Frankly, there are plenty of flaws in most Rolex reps that are detectable long before someone says "hey, the SS isn't bright enough, this must be a REP!!!"

Let me first say that the dealers are (mostly, other than the others who've come and gone) terrific on this board, which is why I continue to participate here and continue to buy reps. It doesn't matter if they're doing it to make money. We all do stuff to make money but it doesn't mean the customer can't appreciate the difference between a seller doing a good job and a lousy one. These guys operate in a trade where scamming is the norm and where legally they don't have any repercussions. So the fact that they continue to work in the professional way that they do says a lot about them as human beings. Reps may be fake, but our dealers are for real and I appreciate that, I do.

The problem that Andrew complains about, however, is not necessarily just members being spoiled, whiny jerks. Yes, of course reps are just reps. But they've gotten so good (while prices have generally stayed stable or dropped) that people simply are not satisfied with the level of quality that they were even 2-3 years ago. People now know that if they're not 100% persuaded that X rep is a must buy, something badass is going to come down the pipes soon thereafter, whether it be a new generation of the same watch or something altogether different. Dealers have become more and more competitive about pricing and about hyping their watches as the best on the market or close to flawless, and when you say that people are going to scrutinize the product. So to me, a lot of where things are at have to do with where the market has gone, and not just because members take things for granted. We do, but that's because things HAVE gotten good.

Finally, while we may be a bunch of spoiled, whiny jerks who nitpick, I would think that sometimes inures to the benefit of the dealer. Most guys on the street would not buy $400 "perfect" subs or "ultimate" 187 Pams. They are perfectly satisfied with the $50 cheapie special. It's because members are knowledgeable and picky that they're willing to shell out hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars a year to feed their hobby.

So I feel like it's sort of just where things are at, although certainly members could show more courtesy and appreciation to our dealers.