R_Squared
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Posts
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Posts posted by R_Squared
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Yep. Looks like they have improved the caseback engravings - much deeper now rather than the lightly etched numbers in the previous batch. My new 005K also has the same caseback as yours.
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thanks for the comments guys. i purchased this 328 for the sole purpose of an rwg side by side review. i do not plan on keeping this so please keep an eye open for a sales post over the next couple of days. besides the movement / caseback, the biggest tell for me is the crown guard and lever. the crown guard seems to be a little bigger and the "reg. t.m." font is definitely wrong. the actual lever can be reshaped to look a little more gen like, but i don't trust myself to attempt mods. other than that, this version is very impressive! as a few have mentioned (and my dealer has confirmed), there is an ultimate version in the works. but we all know how that goes ... it could be months away and some things will be better and some will be worse. if you're on the fence, i wouldn't hesitate for the money. all the best.
The "Reg. T.M." font is quite correct on the rep also. The gen CG for the 1950 models do come with different font engravings. Here's a couple of gen pics of the 312/359 CG's with similar font/shape/positioning as the rep:
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Its the simplicity of the panerais that draws most people to the brand. With just a simple strap change or DLC coating, you can easily transform the look of the watch instantly. I have so many panerai straps that I lost count! I will need a big box just to keep all the straps together!
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Same thing but mid-town.
I bought my first PAM years ago while on vacation in the Carribean - PAM 25. Hadn't ever seen one before and loved it. When I got back to the States I don't think I saw another one for a couple of years. I found the rep forums when I wanted to buy another one and there were so few if any around even in NYC that I searched under Panerai on the internet and the rest is history.
Nice to know another member is in NYC. We should try to get together one day. I do go up to mid-town around grand central for business meetings & industry seminars sometimes.
I only got into panerais full on after I found the rep forums. The reps allows me to round out my panerai collection. I can't see myself buying too many of the gen panerais given that they are mostly very similar.
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I think Jeff is responsible for all the finance guys in NYC being aspirational to PAMs !!!!!
Hahahahaha ... there were already many PAM wearers in NYC before I even know what a panerai was. First saw gen 196 on banker's wrist about 3 years ago when discussing business deals in his area and got hooked right there and then. I have not looked back ever since.
But I do wear other brands like rolex, IWC, hublots, stowas and longines, so panerai ain't all I wear and love ...
@watchmeister - I didn't know you were in/around NYC. Do you live and work in the city? I am in downtown NYC's financial services area of course.
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I would be interested in 2-3 as well.
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Chad, it's the crystal. Put this crystal in a JF you'll have the same effect.
+1 ... the rehaut depth on the JF case is correct to gen. With the correct gen-like crystal you'll have the same effect as w0lf said.
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Do Audemars, G.P. and Heuer useed DD module too?
Is this correct?
Yes. AP's and Tags have models that uses the DD modules. There are different DD types for different mvt bases.
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i frankly don't understand why people are trying to beat down a $4k watch because of how cheap or unreliable the DD chrono module is rumoured to be. if that truly is the case, then isn't there more cause for concern for folks plonking down $20 grand for an AP ROO which also happens to use the same DD module in their non-inhouse caliber ROOs??
+1
Well said Burnz. Its like listening to a bunch of school girls talking on the phone here ... much ado about nothing. I said it over at W-C and I will say it here too.
@TBP - I don't think you got my point over at W-C. What I am saying is that ****e can happen with ANY movement, not just these. You are wayyyyy too paranoid here and most of your experiences are probably due to bad luck rather than anything specific that can be attributed to Tudor and this mvt. The issue I had with my ETA 6497 mvt was to support my point above i.e., it was supposed to be a great movement, highly reliable and simple to repair, but look at what happened to mine (problem with regulation to within COSC standards)? Yes I agree and have mentioned this a few times before that the servicing of this mvt will be daunting and no different with any other watches with this complexity.
I just feel like you are whining and whining about something that *may* or *may not* happen. I don't think you should continue to torture yourself with this constant negativity about the mvt. Its not proven and probably wouldn't be given that Rolex is behind it (good enough for me, Omega is another story ...). Maybe its time for you to consider another watch with perhaps a simpler mvt setup?
As for servicing my tudor mvt, I have access to plenty of expert watchmakers that can deal with this mvt should it be necessary as Marty in W-C. I don't use "high street watchmakers" - never ever did. I have my own trusted watchmakers for each mvt type. I trust the words of the more experienced members in the other forum as they seem to know the inner workings of that mvt and their experience is consistent with mine and I have owned many many high priced gens. I too have access to the RSC folks in the US/Switzerland should I find it necessary. As long as you buy from a reputable dealer (grey or AD) in the states, you are good too - these guys have access to many good watchmakers that can handle them. The situation is no different to yours in the UK ...
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are those the stock CGs?
Nope. BK did his magic on the CG and reshape it nicely ...
My preference is to have the stock CG's and then have it reworked by hand. While I like the idea of already nice CG lugs on the WM9 V2 or V3, most of the ones I have seen are either mis-shapen or one side is thicker than the other, so no thanks ...
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... double post
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This is definetely a WM9 version 1 watch.
The original "Super Sub".
No one remembers my review of it?
I was waiting for you to chime in for a while since you are also a big fan of the WM9 V1/V2 casesets.
I love my WM9 Hybrid LV with the V1 caseset coupled to a new MBW hollow mid-link bracelet/V2 clasp:
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Yes mine is old. Its one of the orig MBW16610 models. Mine is also modded, and even during all the past WM9 hype, I couldnt find a reason to replace it.
Definitely agree with you there! I bought all the different rep sub out there just so I can compare and find out what the fuss was. Even after all the different WM9 versions being made, I still find it hard to get rid of this one. All it needs is just a slightly better insert and I'm done. It has all the modern upgrades you can think of, modded by sub experts BK/Tribal (CG only) and the pearl is GEN.
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Hmmm...this sub looks like the sub I just got. I'm having my watchsmith assemble my first batch of them at the moment. The first batch will have 20 of them installed with my leftover wm9 black dials and hands. These 20 are for returned customers, by invitation only. The rest is stock, except I will trim the CGs and apply a epoxy coat on the pearl. Here's what I think:
Things better on this sub:
- rehaut top edge is smooth. The v3's is rough. I always have to polish it
- the bezel teeth are much better (longer) than v3's, about on par with the 2nd version of the v2's.
- area where the case tube hole is drilled isn't recessed so deep as that of the v3, so much like the v2's
- better SEL fit
- perfect rehaut engraving alignment
- better rehaut engraving font than v3's, about the same as v2's
- diver's extension that doesn't pop out easily
- excellent crystal. I'm most impressed about this. The top edge is rounded like gen's which is what I'm extremely happy about. And the cyclop has higher mag which I believe matches gen's. Even though the etched crown is still loud, I take this crystal even over Clark's.
- correct date font and size like the last version of v3's dw overlay, better than earlier versions of v2's and v3's
Things better on the wm9 v2 and v3:
- no doubt it's the superlumed dial, hands, and pearl
- higher/correct crown position on the v3. v2's about the same as this one's
- correct CGs, no trimming required
- correct hollow mid links on the bracelet (solid on this other sub)
bk
BTW, this is not a wm9. Not v1, not v2 nor v3. wm9 v1 was never offered in M serial. BUT v1 wasn't so much a pure wm9 effort. I believe George at that time was working together with this factory. It's the v2 when George had the passion to get rid of all the flaws wm9 sub became an exclusive watch to the wm9 factory. So the wm9 v1 components and molds are available to this other Taiwan factory. This sub has the same genes as the wm9 v1. The dial, the case, the bracelet, etc. are all from the v1 era. It's just not a wm9. George doesn't make this watch. Unlike wm9 subs, this watch is in production, being made as we speak.
bk
Well, the master has spoken. Pretty much consistent with my observations as well.
I am also very impressed with this caseset, whether its called the WM9 V1 or MBW/Euromariner V4 or TW caseset. Glad I used this caseset to build my F series 16610 LV which also happens to be enhanced by BK himself including his CG mod & latest datewheel overlay which looks perfect to me. Glad to see it is being made again ... Woohoo!
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Yeah...what you said
Sounds significantly more eloquent when you say it!Hahaha ... just trying to be constructive here.
You mentioned the following flaws:
1. Font on Tachy is incorrect
2. Oval on Tachy hand is too small
3. Second hand at 3' is incorrectly lumed.
Agree on #1 but more of a boldness issue than font. But I am not seeing the issue you have on #2 and #3 - these things are never going to be 100% like gen and mostly only noticeable in the realm of loupes, so I wouldn't think these are "flaws" per se.
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That gen pic is too over-exposed to tell whether the color of the blue chrono hand matches the rep. But I am not sure it does. I will be very very impressed if it does. Also, the hob nail texture on the rep dial is not pronounced enough and hard to see (or maybe its just the pics). On the gen, the hob nail texture is very apparent at all angles. I am not saying this is a bad rep but those would be my concerns if I were to get one.
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I am surprised no one mentioned the 212 yet. Compared to the 253, the 212 is a much more accurate rep. On the 253, I am not sure the blue chrono seconds hand color is accurate and the hob nail texture appears a bit less pronounced compared to the gen 253 dial. Would love to get both but I think my money is with the 212.
@Pete - you mentioned the 12 & 6 shape, what's wrong with it? Looks pretty much spot on to me including the indices/markers thickness.
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1. Valerian
2. petem (2 crystals)
3. BigE
4. Chudd
5. Paulw
6. Repwatch
7. Bosk
8. Nakortheblue
9. Rickhic
10. Z3k0 (2 crystals)
11. panerisiti(2)
12. jcrry (2 or 3 crystals)
13. Pabler
14. Lanikai (2 or more crystals)
15. Sidedish
16. cbd21(2)
17. Slan93
18. Cchrono
19. Deniz21
20. Bynico92
21. Ewing
22. Kioske
23. Jimmynugent
24. Fishgodeep(2 crystals)
25. Suzuki
26. Cdigi
27. Mann
28. Colorao
29. Fitipaldi
30. opcrown
31. btocamelo
32. PrDubis
33. Yousif1980
34. Psycho
35. Rytox
36. Maars
37. burrppp
38. 4fun
39. goin6633
40. Maxman
41. Tallah
42. Whacky
43. Notsobreit
44. EMM
45.ironpumper
46. lasync
47. j4jure
48. Bigmarcelo
49. malfa
50. r_squared (2 x crystals)
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I have a MBW16610 case that was modded long before Euro offered his Euromariners. Mine is a modded 16610 case with noobmariner dial and Noob hollowlink with gen clasp. The endlinks suck but i dont really care. Not sure what bezel insert it has, i cant remember which one it is. Im pretty much into vintage Rolex and nothing else these days. I havent even worn my 16610 in at least a year so Im not really up to date with all this WM9 stuff.
Your MBW 16610 is probably the same one as my old school MBW black sub above. Its dated way before the euromariners came out. Love the old school MBW case eventhough it doesn't have gen bezel construction like the WM9's. The bezel shape on these old school MBW subs are the best rep sub bezels out there and almost like the gen shape/cuts. The inner rehaut depth is also very gen-like but just a wee bit deeper than the WM9 versions. Overall not a bad looking rep sub (almost comparable to WM9 subs) if it is properly modded like mine.
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@R_Squared
i believe the MBKs had such good dials because eurotimez retrofit replacement noob dials as a part of his standard 'euromariner' product, but ive heard the stock MBK 16610 are garbage. the wm9v1 Zubmariner dial was always too faintly printed for my liking. BKs v2 dial was excellent, hell -even the noobmariner dial is outstanding and cheap to replace!
Correctomundo! MBW/MBK original dials are a crap shoot. The noob dials that eurotimez uses are much much better and has stronger lume than the regular noob dials. That is the one I used in my WM9 Hybrid above. I call it the MBW-Euromariner V4 noob dials. Not sure what else you would have called it! Agree that is the BEST rep dial for F series sub builds.
The rep flat S (WM9 V1 dials) are supposed to have faint dial fonts just like the gen version that I have. The WM9 V2/3 dials are perfect for Z serial builds.
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thanks mate, i was comparing this flat s dial with my gen 16610. when i come home, i take some pics for you to see what i am talking about, maybe i have a different dial than you.
I would like to join the orders for case sets if possible.
I really like the hybrid from you, very good SEL fit. This and the rehaut are the most important things to me since you cannot fix that afterwards. good talk here regarding sub, i think i need to come here more often.
No problem E. Love my hybrid a lot. Kept it b/c I wanted a nice green LV F serial sub to go with my gen flat S D serial black sub.
You probably have a different series gen sub. They all don't have the same exact dial fonts/print sizes. The gen flat S sub that represented by the rep flat S dial above is only found in late D or early Z serial modern subs. I remember seeing some older series subs (I think its the 168000 old subs) with the flat S dial but the dial text is of a slightly different font type & a bit bolder.
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About the crown position, pay attention to the post of BK and Stilty in the V vs V thread. I think it says all.
BK assembled loads of V2 and V3, we can safely conclude he knows his stuff. Now Stilty, producing movement adaptor rings. Im pretty sure he knows the tolerance.
So, it is same old story, best sub is gen sub. With WM9 v1/2/3 and PT socalled WM9 v1, all are still faulty by default but best rep subs to date. Just pick your poison.
BK is a good friend of mine, and I have bought many of his creations. He is by far the best rolex sub modder in the forum ... bar none. This whole crown position discussion is pointless as only you will see it most of the time. If you are a hardcore rolex owner you *might* notice but only really upclose. That is why many of the experienced sub modders don't focus on it.
All reps whether it be WM9 or the Cartel Ultimate this or that have flaws right out of the box. No question, but with careful modding and selection of parts, you can rebuild many of these WM9 Subs into something very accurate that it currently is. All you need is the time, money and intricate knowledge of the various sub models. Not that hard to achieve if you know what you are doing ...
Who has the best sub - ROLEX INC ... in other words, a gen sub ...
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I've done a comparison in the past maybe take the search function. If u look at my hybrid Sub you can see I mixed all the parts from V2 and V3 to get a nice Sub. About the Crown position it's really not much better on V3. The bad thing on V3 is the clearance of the Crown to the Bezel. Maybe a bad machine midcase.
You can read all this in my older post
+1 The best WM9 sub is a mix of parts from the other versions based on either the V1 or V2 caseset. I have done something similar as well. V1 needs a bit more work than V2 but at least the V1's SEL fitment are generally better than on V2's. At least that was my experience after owning 4 x WM9 V2 Subs in the past. The SEL fitment on the V3 did not impress me either and I own a WM9 V3 LV as well ...
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i'll check on the production status of that case for you in the new year, as i want some more 16610 mbk cases as well and planned to pick some up including A serial ones
Thanks. I wouldn't mind picking up another so I can convert my old school MBW black sub below into this WM9 V1 caseset:
Not interested in the WM9 V2 or V3 caseset unless the SEL fitment looks as good as this one.
So what do you guys think?
in The Panerai Area
Posted
I don't know why people kept saying there is a difference (in dial text font) when there is none that I am aware of. Both models use the same dial as far as I know. Here's a couple of gen pics (177M) to illustrate my point:
http://www.watchuwant.com/watches/panerai-pam-177-m-newest-m-series-luminor-marina-44mm-titanium-black-sandwich-dial-bnib
You can see clearly from the gen pics above that the 177 dial font is the same as the 111 i.e., ivory cream in color.
Tx - great build! Keep that dial in there as its the correct one.