R_Squared

I don't know why people kept saying there is a difference (in dial text font) when there is none that I am aware of. Both models use the same dial as far as I know. Here's a couple of gen pics (177M) to illustrate my point: http://www.watchuwant.com/watches/panerai-pam-177-m-newest-m-series-luminor-marina-44mm-titanium-black-sandwich-dial-bnib You can see clearly from the gen pics above that the 177 dial font is the same as the 111 i.e., ivory cream in color. Tx - great build! Keep that dial in there as its the correct one.

Yep. Looks like they have improved the caseback engravings - much deeper now rather than the lightly etched numbers in the previous batch. My new 005K also has the same caseback as yours.

The "Reg. T.M." font is quite correct on the rep also. The gen CG for the 1950 models do come with different font engravings. Here's a couple of gen pics of the 312/359 CG's with similar font/shape/positioning as the rep: http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6007/dsc04570a.jpg http://img862.imageshack.us/i/56197763.jpg

Its the simplicity of the panerais that draws most people to the brand. With just a simple strap change or DLC coating, you can easily transform the look of the watch instantly. I have so many panerai straps that I lost count! I will need a big box just to keep all the straps together!

Nice to know another member is in NYC. We should try to get together one day. I do go up to mid-town around grand central for business meetings & industry seminars sometimes. I only got into panerais full on after I found the rep forums. The reps allows me to round out my panerai collection. I can't see myself buying too many of the gen panerais given that they are mostly very similar.

Hahahahaha ... there were already many PAM wearers in NYC before I even know what a panerai was. First saw gen 196 on banker's wrist about 3 years ago when discussing business deals in his area and got hooked right there and then. I have not looked back ever since. But I do wear other brands like rolex, IWC, hublots, stowas and longines, so panerai ain't all I wear and love ... @watchmeister - I didn't know you were in/around NYC. Do you live and work in the city? I am in downtown NYC's financial services area of course.

I would be interested in 2-3 as well.

+1 ... the rehaut depth on the JF case is correct to gen. With the correct gen-like crystal you'll have the same effect as w0lf said.

Yes. AP's and Tags have models that uses the DD modules. There are different DD types for different mvt bases.

+1 Well said Burnz. Its like listening to a bunch of school girls talking on the phone here ... much ado about nothing. I said it over at W-C and I will say it here too. @TBP - I don't think you got my point over at W-C. What I am saying is that ****e can happen with ANY movement, not just these. You are wayyyyy too paranoid here and most of your experiences are probably due to bad luck rather than anything specific that can be attributed to Tudor and this mvt. The issue I had with my ETA 6497 mvt was to support my point above i.e., it was supposed to be a great movement, highly reliable and simple to repair, but look at what happened to mine (problem with regulation to within COSC standards)? Yes I agree and have mentioned this a few times before that the servicing of this mvt will be daunting and no different with any other watches with this complexity. I just feel like you are whining and whining about something that *may* or *may not* happen. I don't think you should continue to torture yourself with this constant negativity about the mvt. Its not proven and probably wouldn't be given that Rolex is behind it (good enough for me, Omega is another story ...). Maybe its time for you to consider another watch with perhaps a simpler mvt setup? As for servicing my tudor mvt, I have access to plenty of expert watchmakers that can deal with this mvt should it be necessary as Marty in W-C. I don't use "high street watchmakers" - never ever did. I have my own trusted watchmakers for each mvt type. I trust the words of the more experienced members in the other forum as they seem to know the inner workings of that mvt and their experience is consistent with mine and I have owned many many high priced gens. I too have access to the RSC folks in the US/Switzerland should I find it necessary. As long as you buy from a reputable dealer (grey or AD) in the states, you are good too - these guys have access to many good watchmakers that can handle them. The situation is no different to yours in the UK ...

Nope. BK did his magic on the CG and reshape it nicely ... My preference is to have the stock CG's and then have it reworked by hand. While I like the idea of already nice CG lugs on the WM9 V2 or V3, most of the ones I have seen are either mis-shapen or one side is thicker than the other, so no thanks ...

... double post

I was waiting for you to chime in for a while since you are also a big fan of the WM9 V1/V2 casesets. I love my WM9 Hybrid LV with the V1 caseset coupled to a new MBW hollow mid-link bracelet/V2 clasp:

Definitely agree with you there! I bought all the different rep sub out there just so I can compare and find out what the fuss was. Even after all the different WM9 versions being made, I still find it hard to get rid of this one. All it needs is just a slightly better insert and I'm done. It has all the modern upgrades you can think of, modded by sub experts BK/Tribal (CG only) and the pearl is GEN.

Well, the master has spoken. Pretty much consistent with my observations as well. I am also very impressed with this caseset, whether its called the WM9 V1 or MBW/Euromariner V4 or TW caseset. Glad I used this caseset to build my F series 16610 LV which also happens to be enhanced by BK himself including his CG mod & latest datewheel overlay which looks perfect to me. Glad to see it is being made again ... Woohoo!

Hahaha ... just trying to be constructive here. You mentioned the following flaws: 1. Font on Tachy is incorrect 2. Oval on Tachy hand is too small 3. Second hand at 3' is incorrectly lumed. Agree on #1 but more of a boldness issue than font. But I am not seeing the issue you have on #2 and #3 - these things are never going to be 100% like gen and mostly only noticeable in the realm of loupes, so I wouldn't think these are "flaws" per se.

That gen pic is too over-exposed to tell whether the color of the blue chrono hand matches the rep. But I am not sure it does. I will be very very impressed if it does. Also, the hob nail texture on the rep dial is not pronounced enough and hard to see (or maybe its just the pics). On the gen, the hob nail texture is very apparent at all angles. I am not saying this is a bad rep but those would be my concerns if I were to get one.

I am surprised no one mentioned the 212 yet. Compared to the 253, the 212 is a much more accurate rep. On the 253, I am not sure the blue chrono seconds hand color is accurate and the hob nail texture appears a bit less pronounced compared to the gen 253 dial. Would love to get both but I think my money is with the 212. @Pete - you mentioned the 12 & 6 shape, what's wrong with it? Looks pretty much spot on to me including the indices/markers thickness.

1. Valerian 2. petem (2 crystals) 3. BigE 4. Chudd 5. Paulw 6. Repwatch 7. Bosk 8. Nakortheblue 9. Rickhic 10. Z3k0 (2 crystals) 11. panerisiti(2) 12. jcrry (2 or 3 crystals) 13. Pabler 14. Lanikai (2 or more crystals) 15. Sidedish 16. cbd21(2) 17. Slan93 18. Cchrono 19. Deniz21 20. Bynico92 21. Ewing 22. Kioske 23. Jimmynugent 24. Fishgodeep(2 crystals) 25. Suzuki 26. Cdigi 27. Mann 28. Colorao 29. Fitipaldi 30. opcrown 31. btocamelo 32. PrDubis 33. Yousif1980 34. Psycho 35. Rytox 36. Maars 37. burrppp 38. 4fun 39. goin6633 40. Maxman 41. Tallah 42. Whacky 43. Notsobreit 44. EMM 45.ironpumper 46. lasync 47. j4jure 48. Bigmarcelo 49. malfa 50. r_squared (2 x crystals)

Your MBW 16610 is probably the same one as my old school MBW black sub above. Its dated way before the euromariners came out. Love the old school MBW case eventhough it doesn't have gen bezel construction like the WM9's. The bezel shape on these old school MBW subs are the best rep sub bezels out there and almost like the gen shape/cuts. The inner rehaut depth is also very gen-like but just a wee bit deeper than the WM9 versions. Overall not a bad looking rep sub (almost comparable to WM9 subs) if it is properly modded like mine.

Correctomundo! MBW/MBK original dials are a crap shoot. The noob dials that eurotimez uses are much much better and has stronger lume than the regular noob dials. That is the one I used in my WM9 Hybrid above. I call it the MBW-Euromariner V4 noob dials. Not sure what else you would have called it! Agree that is the BEST rep dial for F series sub builds. The rep flat S (WM9 V1 dials) are supposed to have faint dial fonts just like the gen version that I have. The WM9 V2/3 dials are perfect for Z serial builds.

No problem E. Love my hybrid a lot. Kept it b/c I wanted a nice green LV F serial sub to go with my gen flat S D serial black sub. You probably have a different series gen sub. They all don't have the same exact dial fonts/print sizes. The gen flat S sub that represented by the rep flat S dial above is only found in late D or early Z serial modern subs. I remember seeing some older series subs (I think its the 168000 old subs) with the flat S dial but the dial text is of a slightly different font type & a bit bolder.

BK is a good friend of mine, and I have bought many of his creations. He is by far the best rolex sub modder in the forum ... bar none. This whole crown position discussion is pointless as only you will see it most of the time. If you are a hardcore rolex owner you *might* notice but only really upclose. That is why many of the experienced sub modders don't focus on it. All reps whether it be WM9 or the Cartel Ultimate this or that have flaws right out of the box. No question, but with careful modding and selection of parts, you can rebuild many of these WM9 Subs into something very accurate that it currently is. All you need is the time, money and intricate knowledge of the various sub models. Not that hard to achieve if you know what you are doing ... Who has the best sub - ROLEX INC ... in other words, a gen sub ...

+1 The best WM9 sub is a mix of parts from the other versions based on either the V1 or V2 caseset. I have done something similar as well. V1 needs a bit more work than V2 but at least the V1's SEL fitment are generally better than on V2's. At least that was my experience after owning 4 x WM9 V2 Subs in the past. The SEL fitment on the V3 did not impress me either and I own a WM9 V3 LV as well ...

Thanks. I wouldn't mind picking up another so I can convert my old school MBW black sub below into this WM9 V1 caseset: Not interested in the WM9 V2 or V3 caseset unless the SEL fitment looks as good as this one.