bklm1234

I already ordered my custom crowns. I hope they come out right. Rep crowns often are too big. There's a reason. Gen crown has very thin skin. I assume Rolex has superior technology and probably better steel to make the skin thin and yet strong. The top portion is very hard for crown makers in China to replicate with a rep budget. So they make the top bulge thick (like on the SSD crown). They usually throw in bonus flaws like making the teeth too long like on the wm9 crown. The proper way to do is IMO is make the top skin thick (no choice, the Chinese can only make it thick), but make the tube shorter. The goal is to make the exterior identical. There's really not much sacrificing on the structure or water resistance capability. I'm not talking about significantly shortening the tube. There's still plenty to screw around (pardon my pun).

@cht: no Rolex hasn't shorten the 7mm crown. Same old and is used on almost every new model, e.g. gmt-iic.

-bk

i can answer a couple of the questions.

1. wm9 is the maker of the wm9 watches, sub, ym, and future sd. their website is www.watchmaker9.tv

2. I sell at the same price as wm9. I assemble the wm9 watches I sell. I take care of little flaws for free, e.g. currently wm9 crystal's cyclop doesn't have enough magnification, I'm installing Clark crystal for free. I will offer upgrade option at affordable prices such as a custom made thinner crown (wm9 crown is oversized).

-bk

Thanks Tribal for a great review as usual. I'm still waiting for the movements and bracelets. George said he actually makes a m serial bracelet and a z serial bracelet. I didn't know they use different bracelets.

The crown and tube are indeed too thick like I said in my first update. I already ordered custom crown and tube sets to be made for the wm9 v2 sub. It'll be my special upgrade option.

I think Rolex stopped the sans serif style on the hour markers for m and z serial (correct me if I'm wrong). So the wm9 dial is actually correct in terms of the hour markers not having sans serif style for its m and z serial subs. I'm slightly disappointed there's still no sans serif styling on the small text because Rolex kept sans serif style on the small text while it has stopped it on the hour markers. But then the old king of sub dials, the noob dial, doesn't implement sans serif on the small text either. So I still maintain the wm9 v2 sub dial is the new king because its "ROLEX" text's vertical strokes are finally thick (they are skinny on the noob dial) and the date window is larger and has more correct rectangular shape, not to mention the superlume.

Yes, this case can take a 2836-2. wm9 can provide the movement rings for 2836-2. Several reasons for using this movement,

1. is steady, easy, basically unlimited supply of 2678-2 (2836-2 is too popular, it often runs short like now the factory is temporarily short of it. That's why I'm not getting gen ETA version of DSSD V3).

2. quality problem of some recent 2836-2 batches

3. George said gen ETA 2678-2 ebauches are made in Swiss instead of Asia like the 2836-2 ebauches. I don't know if it's true. But definitely worth giving a try, right?

-bk

@cht: can't find a ss sub pic to illustrate the brushed part below the CGs. But have this TT sub pic. I checked that ss subs in real life. They have the same treatment.

-bk

it's a rep. Actually the crown position in particular suggests it's a rep. It should be even higher. Another tell is the lugholes being too high. This is a Euromariner V3. Other parts also are not gen. The crystal lacks the top edge rounding. The top edge of the crystal is way too sharp to be a gen crystal. the pearl is most likely a watchmaterial pearl. The tell of that is the luminous material doesn't fill up to the inside of the rim. The CGs were reshaped superbly. Amazing job. But there's a tell at the CGs. If you draw a line across the base of the U of the CGs, below the line, the surface should be brushed, not polished. But hack, I won't even do it. Again, it's an amazing CG mod. The gen crown and gen/generic springbars are great additions to this superb rep.

-bk

the noobfactory is infactuated with serial no. ending with 117. The F serial is F520117. Now the M serial is M092117. SSD's is Z539117.

-bk

JO insert is very nice esp for $15 shipped. The numbers, paint, and gloss are very close to gen. It's actually a thinner insert than gen. You save yourself a lot of filing to get it recessed in the bezel bay for wm9, PT sub, and MBK/Euromariner. Only complaint is the "4" a little different from gen's "4". I use JO insert a lot.

-bk

great writeup, stilty. I always knew the bezel sat too low in relation to the top of the retaining ring, just didn't know it's because the click teeth were cut too deep from the bottom. It also means the part of the retaining ring that the bezel fits onto is too thick. Can you confirm this by measureing the retaining ring's bottom thickness, stilty?

I took a look at the wm9 bezel, it's also cut deep. I haven't measured the depth. Maybe it's not as deep because the same insert (tried JO and stock rep insert) can snap in to a wm9 bezel but can't snap in to a Euromariner bezel. It's not recessed enough though. I have to mill the inserts some. I have to tell wm9 George to improve this.

My fix (without going to a gen bezel assembly) is to shave some off the top of the retaining ring and the insert snaps in. Of course with a Clark crystal which is 2.02mm, the crystal looks too high above the insert. But a thinner crystal like wholesaleoutlet's (1.84mm) or the stock crystal won't look so high.

-bk

these PT subs have those nickel plated 2836-2's. My Mainland Chinese supplier also got a hold of a few of them. He told me they are used movements pulled from other watches (could be unsold watches) but gen ETAs. Just service them.

-bk

Thanks all. The more pics the better.

I'm sourcing H and E movements also. I found an Asian H which looks like this, pretty economical:

I also found a better grade one. The supplier said it's Swiss. He's probably not lying. But terminology is a tricky thing. All in all it's obviously higher grade and better looking one:

-bk

@elprimerozen: does your 2678-2 clone look real like the 2836-2 clone does? Is it visually obvious that it's a clone or you really have to know what to look for?

I'm pretty confident that the 2678-2 used in wm9 v2 sub is gen ETA. If anybody knows how to tell between a gen and a clone 2678-2 like what Chris did, pls share it so we can keep wm9 honest. I myself have a watchsmith check every 2836-2 to make sure it's gen ETA. Once my watchsmith found a couple clones for me, I told my supplier don't do that again. He's been honest ever since.

Shundi said it right. Neither 2836-2 nor 2678-2 is correct. As long as it's gen ETA (hopefully more precious and even on the dw) it's as good or better than 2836-2. I'll post pic how the dw overlay works with this smaller movement.

-bk

I'm in China on vacation and business. I met a very good dial maker who's done many high quality pam dials. His prices are very economical. I'm looking to make my own versions of 111h, 112h, 000, and 002. If you can help me by sending me pics or links of these dials, square on pics, I'd really appreciate it. Pls help.

-bk

cape cod is perfect for polishing a small area. It's not good enough for a larger surface which requires a dremel and rouge. The combo can really do a factory grade polish/high shine which cape cod cannot do (there's still a haze if you look close). For a small area, cape cod does have the advantage of not being so messy. Dremel and rouge is dusty and you get dust on every thing including your hair, your face, etc. My dear friend who's an expert at this sticks the whole works in a large clear plastic bag when he uses the dremel to keep the dust inside the plastic bag as much as possible. I just make him do my watches for me.

-bk

What about a gen insert or another aftermarket insert. Does it fit ok?

problem isn't with the insert. It's the bezel/retaining ring combo. Once you got the retaining ring top shaved a bit, any insert can go insert with a recessed look. But if you don't do anything, any insert will be floating.

-bk

good job, im2, esp. happy to see you got the insert nice and recessed.

if you like the euromariner, you'd love the PT 'cause the bezel is thicker, there's no issue of the insert not going in, no need to shave the top of the retaining ring. I didn't have to shave the back of the insert either on the PT i just finished modded (shown below). Not only the insert goes in recessed without mod, the Clark crystal doesn't appear too high above the insert, just perfect. If you want to lessen the high crystal issue on the Euromariner, you can go for a WholesaleOutlet999 crystal which is 1.84mm thick instead of Clark's 2.02mm. It's not as nice as Clark's though. You can see Clark's has almost the gen's rounding/beveling on the top edge of the crystal. So damn close to gen's look. Sweatness.

-bk

ray t is right, ask for c2 gasket. the crystal on the link is correct. btw, Clark is a perfect match for wm9 but too thick for MBK/Euromariner because MBK/Euromariner's bezel is thinner so the insert sits lower (that is after you recess the insert which is a proper thing to do for rollies) and therefore expose more crystal than it's supposed to. With Clark's 2.02mm thickness, the crystal just looks too tall. Again, not a problem for wm9. It's very nice nice looking.

-bk

get The Zigmeister, or vaccum, or everestwatchworks to superlume your dial and hands.

just use the hands on the euromariner. you don't need new ones. Gen tudor hands are only nice-to-have.

I recommend just using flat needle file to trim the CGs. It's slower but less risky than dremel. Before starting, heat the tube and case to break/soften the glue on the tube so you can remove the tube completely when filing. Very simple and no risk of busting or ruining the tube thread.

-bk

I really feel good about bringing the wm9 watches to the forums. Many of you know I started as a hobbyist, a modder, before carrying watches. I stress a rep has to make senses in terms of value and closeness to gen. The new wm9 v2 sub makes sense. $530 for a near 1:1 construction (only the crown position is not so 1:1. It is still lower than gen's because a thicker than gen movement is used) with superlumed dial and hands, 1:1 dw overlay, no need to trim the CGs, etc., is truly good value. Some people said $530 is a lot of money. So is $350 and so is $120. You have to look at comparable products and compare the prices. I don't need to break the price down for you. Just look around.

-bk

I think the wholesaleoutlet crystal is a more economic and more sure solution. Other bezel might not fit. The wholesaleoutlet crystal looks the same as the Clark's except it's thinner, which I think is perfect for solving the MBK/Euromariner's issue.

Edit: I found out on closer inspection, Clark crystal has better details. The top edge actually has gen style rounding/beveling. Clark's better but wholesaleoutlet is a better match for the MBK/Euromariner because it's thinner.

-bk

I've looked at a few pics of the LH dials. The "L SWISS MADE L" looks off centered to the right. I believe the space between the letters S and M should line up with to the center of the numeral 6. I might be nitpicky but for $200 for just the top plate, I expect that to be correct too.

-bk

the top one is a noob sub, the bottom one isn't. The bottom isn't a very good sub. It has its cyclop too far to the right and a conical rehaut. It doesn't have enough rehaut thickness either. Neither watch is an MBK/Euromariner.

-bk

BTW, after I filed the top of the retaining ring, the insert snapped in perfectly with a nice recessed look. Absolutely no glue is needed.

-bk

I also found pairing the Clark crystal with the Euromariner is not ideal. Since the bezel ring is thinner and sits lower, after you manage to get the insert in nice and recessed by filing down the top of the retaining ring, the Clark crystal will appear too high above the insert. The one on the left in the pic is a MBK/Euromariner fitted with a Clark crystal and the retaining ring filed.

The fix is to use a WholesaleOutlet999 crystal which I just received yesterday. The WholesaleOutlet999 and the Clark crystal look about the same in terms of cyclop mag and beveling. But a Clark crystal measures ~2.02mm while a WholesaleOutlet999 measures ~1.85mm. I think a WholesaleOutlet999 crystal is perfect for the MBK/Euromariner. The crystal will have just the right height above the insert.

-bk

awesome!!

is that the mbw bracelet and clasp on there?

I think yes. It's the same bracelet as my mbw 1665 which I bought new from a collector.

-bk

I think I get it. There's more space between the top hook and the close loop.

Trusty's pic of the full ceramic. 6 looks like this:

MJ at RG just got his full ceramic and the 6's look like this:

Jiro's older version:

-bk