RobbieG

Man, great photos in this check thread. I almost don't even want to post. I can't compete. Oh well, I still have this on from two days ago from my trip to the hospital...

I know there are those here who may be disappointed, but my trip to the emergency room a couple days ago with chest pains failed to kill me. Actually, I wasn't having a heart attack as it turns out, although it was angina. Due to some familial risk factors they decided to admit me to the hospital and do an angiogram / heart catheterization on me. I found out that I have some kind of genetic defect where one of my coronary arteries loops back under the heart muscle so sometimes when my heart rate increases the heart muscle pushes on the artery giving a sensation of angina like you would get if you has blockage from plaque in the artery. The good news: 1. No big deal. Plus, I kind of get to start over knowing that all my artieries are in great shape and completely clear with no evidence of any hardening or plaque anywhere. I'm just going to take a very low dose beta blocker to keep my heart rate down so I don't feel that feeling much. 2. I got a laugh out of having my groin shaved while three pretty young things hovered over me saying. "Here, let me drape this modesty sock over your parts..." 3. When I went down for surgery they took my stuff to lock in the safe and asked for my watch. I said I didn't care if it was against the rules, I'm wearing it in. If I die, I'm dying with my watch on. When I said that the girl looked down and saw my gen Datejust. So she goes, oh I see I is a Rolex. I winked at her and told her it was a replica but it had sentimental value. The bad news: 1. My [censored]*ng groin is KILLING me. I had no idea. The doc said it is because sometimes they hit a nerve going in and also I'm skinny and without a lot of fat right there where they go in the muscle can be really tender. 2. Constipation from the morphine. 3. I missed the Jandrew drama thread and had to let Lani hold down the fort practically by himself (not). Another one closed huh? When we will all learn? The good of the community in that case may actually be to just let it go and all us adults here will make our own decisions as to who is a crook and who is not. One thing is for sure, in the conterfeiting business now and in the future there will surely be a crook somewhere. But we are all big boys (and girls - V) and will continue to decide for ourselves who to patronize and who to steer clear of. The best thing though? Passion. Man, isn't it cool how passionate we all are about our hobby? Never a shortage of that here. Just awesome. And even though I may not agree with them, I appreciate my brothers who are only trying to protect us by weighing in the other direction. So take it from me, don't sweat the small stuff and most of all, try to find the good in anything - including disagreements. My whole trip could have gone the other way and instead of writing this post I could be dead in a metal drawer right now. Good to be back with my passionate mates at the greatest online forum in the world. R

So you are saying he sent you an email or PM or something and said he was going to kill you if you didn't shut up or he was going to kill you period? Either way, all I can say is wow. Seems a little extreme for a guy who is going to sell a lot of watches no matter what anyone says on these boards - wholesaleing I mean to other resellers...

Yeah, I used to love them. Accuracy was less important as they were only for photo shoots. Boxes and papers to me have provided some of the best image setups that I could never have had without them - especially for more abstract type images. Some of them are not very accurate either... And then they are also fun for the "group" shots...

I must have missed this - calling him out on what and in what context did he threaten your life? I hadn't heard that as I kind of missed that whole Josh/RWI thing and the little details. Do tell...

Yeah, I'm fine with bracelets but I stop there. The other things are what I can't do. I just discovered that the little details are what move me in horology and that is what drove me to gens. I mean I really wish I wasn't a gen guy actually. If I could do my own work I probably wouldn't be, but if a rep out of the box doesn't nail the vibe of the gen it must be fixed/modded. Take the PO as a great example. dluddy has a great one that is every bit as nice as the gen and he has maybe $800 into it. Correct logo transplant, relume, double AR, gen crown and hands, etc. Perfect. If I had the inclination I would have the same watch instead of the gen I bought. Or even small things like a crooked dial or DW that doesn't line up or bezel that wont center. Those are the things I can't live without. And here is the distinction for me it isn't how accurate the rep is to the gen visually. At this point even marginal reps are usually fine in that respect. But the little details of QC type errors - fingerprints, crooked stuff, too loose, threads stripping, rotor grind. That is the stuff that drives me crazy. For me horology is all about those little details. Serifs on a logo font mean nothing to me... That said, all those things I mentioned can usually be fixed. I just ran out of interest in the "projects" as I kept getting disappointed. So precision, not accuracy drove me to gens hence my opinions really in this whole post. To me, the lack of truthfulness is sort of the least of my worries because even when I get the watch I see in the picture I'm probably going to have to do something to it - so whether it is real ETA or real gold or whatever doesn't matter if the cyclops is crooked or dates don't drop in the center. Fake gold or real gold - unless that is fixed who cares as far as I'm concerned...

Oh not much really, just the single most important underlying issue that effects everyone who collects replica watches. You kill me sometimes Sox...

@vmena I think it is great that you have kept up the good fight on this particular issue over the years. It is true that progress has been made on many fronts by questioning the Canal street regime. Things get better on the dealer front all the time. Like I said, I am not really the guy to ask as I haven't been active purchasing lately, but maybe I got lucky over the years. I never had any problems with my dealer or cherry picking for me, QC, etc. from that front. My issues all stem from the factories. But in fairness, even they are doing way better than ever - just not up to the level that I want for my watches lately in large part. I suspect that we are nearing the peak of what can be expected from small sweat shops with unskilled labor though in that regard. It is maybe pretty remarkable how good they can produce stuff when you look at it that way. If I had watchsmith skills or time it wouldn't be a problem. I could clean dials, straighten DW, center bezel detents - spit and glue, etc. But for a guy like me, a watch has to arrive pretty much "done" or I'm in for a trip to the post to send it off to someone to fix something. It isn't the time or the money there that started to bug me - it was the effort to correct silly stuff...

http://www.prestigetime.com/item/Ulysse-Na...3-102-3~91.html

So it doesn't have that completely over the top gen UN fit, finish and feel then after all Noel?

Amen to that Fakey. That sums it up for sure. There is no easy answer and acceptance is probably advised - but in the end most discussions are a little moot since we all evaluate on a slightly different level and ultimately view and react to this market in our own way. Sounds like my job actually. My trades are neither the only nor the single best or whatever - too much information to make that judgement. They are just my decisions and I interperet them the way I see fit at the current momnent...

No doubt we are all after the same thing and he differences are just mergers of thought. That said, I do agree that the Canal street mentality starts at the factory and our vendors are more saavy and Westernized. I do still know though that the factories are not open system wholesalers - bring your cash and I'll sell to you. They make a LOT if not all the rules when it comes to who sells what, and in what price range. You have to agree that at the very least, mafioso controlled supply systems make sure the pricing is fixed within a narrow range to define the market they create and control. So in the end, the Chinese street merchant mentality runs through everything. I mean in the end, there is still usually only one best watch at the moment for each model anyway - until the next one comes along. The kind of makes my point further actually - this TT Sub I mean. Gold or not, THAT isn't what makes anyone want to buy it. The same number will sell because it is the best TT Sub around now and so whether the gold issue is true or false nothing really changes because of it. And this is what baffles me about Chinese merchants. Even if they don't need it they throw it into the mix. Why even mention the gold if nobody expects it in the first place if you know it will be controversial. And if he didn't know he needs to get his head examined. Same with the movements and the fact that the factories do what they do and even the dealers don't know if a batch of watches will have genuine or rep ETA's in them. This is kind of old news now so why the dealers don't just take another tack is amazing to me. If I were a dealer I would say this about movements: I sell the two best versions of the watch you see in the pictures. The movement says ETA on it but I don't know if it is rep or gen. I do know that it is the only watch with the highest quality movement coming out of that factory right now & I'll send you that one as opposed to the 21K Asian movement which isn't as nice. There are only two movements Swiss or Asian or not. One better quality. But there is only one watch so if you want it right now and the movement isn't a real ETA it is all there is anyway so let's no focus on it. I mean why tak ethe heat for the factory and risk losing a customer by getting accused of lying - even if you weren't or worse you can't even tell the difference. Like I said, there is still only one watch version and you are only going to be able to get it with one of two movements. It isn't like the dealer can go, oh wait, I'll just get it from another factory who I know uses real ETA's - or I think....

Absolutely. And I'm not for one minute saying because I think the reality is a little shaky that there is no reason to stand up and fight. Just know going in sometimes the deck is stacked against us...

Yeah I'm in for wherever, pretty much whenever with a weeks notice.

Yeah I get it Vmena but nothing really changes. I clearly don't see it the same as you - or I do actually, but my view just has added conditions. I'm saying I don't agree with the forum criteria not because I don't think it is right, but because I don't think it is realistic. I also do know obviously that there is a distinction of the products we buy being higher quality than the Canal street stuff, but the fact is the participants are the same and deal with the same kinds of wholesaleers and suppliers. It is a corupt industry. So the issue is control and true control is of course impossible in life to begin with, but even more impossible is control in a corupt industry. Try we must, but alas, a Chinese counterfeit guy is at the mercy of his own industry too - no matter his character... Make to mistake,I agree that you have the right to ask for better than Canal street behavior when you pay top dollar and get that we sort of look to the board to do its best to protect us from these evils. I'm just saying that if we are after having consistent quality, truthfulness, and overall typical retail internet commerce experience I'm not sure it is realistic. To that end, I have sort of chosen to participate less and less in the commerce aspect of it myself due to fairly predictable disappointments regardless of product or dealer. I will say that my own chosen dealer whom I have done 90%+ of my business with has never once lied to me and yet he would top any list of liars from the membership here. He has done nothing but his very best and been 100% truthful, but I hear that he hasn't with others. So this is exactly my point. The experiences are very hit and miss as are the products, hence this whole post of mine. All you can do is evaluate how your experience is with whoever by trial and error, evaluate the results and decide how you will proceed in the future. But it will nver be cut and dried for urposes of any group evaluation or rating - even the word "trusted" is suspect. Trusted to do what, and when, and with who are immediately needed to even come close to getting an accurate description of a dealer in this industry. I'm not saying that we shouldn't strive to do our best to equalize things and protect our membership. We must and I'm grateful for that. But we must realize that we aren't going to nail it everytime. Peace

Involt is spot on, and while I agree with his principles I don't feel they are worth fighting for simply because it is a battle which cannot be won. But in spirit, I'm with you brother. I wish it were different too. The industry drove me from being a buyer for slightly different reasons. But I must say I have always just sort of refused to react to or expect the industry to tell me the truth. Not saying it is a valid excuse, nor is it right, nor is it a watch thing - it is kind of a Chinese street merchant mentality thing. These are the same people you see selling DVD's, LV knockoffs, Armani, etc. "You buy now, same material as genuine. Perfect. No one tell difference. Solid gold. HD quality. Made in Italy. Swiss movement. Genuine Crocodile. Real silk..." Simply put, I have never met, seen, or heard about a Chinese street vendor type merchant that has ever told the truth about anything. Ever. It is almost comical in fact being so stereotypically accurate. So I don't really think of our dealers or factories as being any different than a guy hustling me to buy his swag on Canal Street. Same guy to me so I have the same expectation. Dressing it up with a website and a "trusted" designation here means nothing to me... It is about expectation. I feel that to get the most fun out of this hobby you just have to let go. I hate TT watches, but I'm certain that WM9's is the best Rolex TT Sub I have ever seen and if I wanted one I would buy his - knowing full well that he is a liar about the gold and is full of sh*t. Like I said, he is still a Chinese street merchant and it is in his blood and every fiber of his being to lie. But for me it just goes with the territory. So while I agree that in sprirt the "You should expect this as it goes with the territory" should not be let go, the reality is that it needs to be let go. I think the divide is in bridging the gap between the standard we would "like" to hold these people to and what is realistic. To me, there is no such thing even as a replica "scam" site by the board definition. I paid a grand for a Sub once and it was a great rep. The cost is a non issue. A guy can mark up a rep at whatever he wants as long as he can find a buyer at that price. It is a free market guys. So is furniture at 1000% markup. Is the furniture store that sells for a 100% markup not a scammer and the 400% guy is? Come on. The "little white lies" are not little. They never have been and they never will be and the fact is if we started banning for them eventually there wouldn't be ANY dealers here. For example how about and experiment? I'll order one watch of my choice from ALL the dealers here claiming to be Swiss. Then I will take them to an ex ETA employee to verify authenticity. Based on his report, we ban any dealer that shipped a watch with a fake Swiss movement. How many do you think would be left? 10%, 5%, 0%? I think you see my point. You can't draw lines on this stuff - or gold - or 1:1, whatever. There is a lie in there somewhere from everyone from a variety of items and if we try and hold a line it will just frustrate us. We will always be at the mercy of the biz and fighting it is futile. You can't win. It is ingrained in the culture of counterfeiting. Expecting counterfeiters to be completely transparent is like expecting infomercials to stop saying, "Only if you call in the next 5 minutes can you get this deal". Cultural... To me, the only "scam" site is one that doesn't ship watches at all and if the board keeps them off the list that is the extent of its job IMO. If a dealer sells the best quality rep at whatever price all is fair. I'll also bet that a great % of them don't even know if the movements are real or fake - or gold. They just repeat what the factory (read: Chinese Street Merchant) tells them. And so it goes down the line. This issue isn't complex. Trying to discover every complicated angle of it is. It is simple. These people are trying to sell the same product and differentiate themselves from their competitors any way they can - just like the guys on Canal. "I see you talk to other guy. I have better. Real gold on my Rolex. I sell to you for same price as him. You buy now..." When you boil it down to that level which is the pure and simple truth of this industry it kind of makes you feel silly for trying to hyper analyze it doesn't it? They are just knockoffs made in China guys and the price and materials range on all the best quality stuff (which is a given that is the only range being sold on these boards) is very, very similar. As long as you get shipped the watch you studied for hours in a picture and for the agreed upon price whatever it is high or low, that is all you can hope for. If you need more than that I'm sorry but you are in for continual disappointment. Personally, I got tired of another form of disappointment - quality issues. But like these other issues there is no point in fighting reality. Now I shop at the AD.

Yeah, The Jones is a great piece. Mine didn't get much wristtime so it didn't hang around, but I did enjoy photographing it. And the movements in these are great. Inexpensive, but quite reliable. I'm still an IWC fan, but now I just have an Aquatimer. Still, you are right, there is something about the FA Jones...

Interesting. What is the origin of that movement? Don't know that I have seen that particular Asian version before Andy.

Go back tomorrow, ask to use the restroom and leave them an upper decker...

That arabic Oyster DD is growing on me Demon. Funny, I have gotten used to not seeing Oysters on DD's since they were discontinued. I kind of miss them now. The arabic and Oyster is a nice sporty combo. I do like the President bracelet best with Romans though - and the Jubilee is best with sticks on DJ's IMO. Funny how different bracelets can completely change the vibe of these otherwise similar watches...

Rhodium attack... First a carry over from the other day. Still marveling at the most elegantly finished dive watch I have ever seen at any price with the absolutely scary fit and finish. And tomorrow I will be hanging with Corgi - if that is allowed since newbie Spidey the platinum sensation is his new best friend...

9 posts and you are already one of the family. Must be some kind of record...

I always liked this pic from a creative perspective Pug, but I still chuckle everytime I see it thinking it looks like something someone left behind in the shower...

I love the look of the screw balance and it is used by virtually all the high end makers, but wonder if it really is superior? Certainly one could find a physical and theoretical reason for why it might be for very fine adjustment, but in practice and reality can a fine screw regulator adjustment achieve rate results just as good all other things being equal? Just curious as to whether tradition is really all that drives the choice. Of course that is fine by me as I personally love to look at them and I think it is amazing how much more mundane a movement looks with a non-screw balance. Anyway, I'll look forward to the opinions.

Yeah - surprised you bought it without asking first. Oh well, you will be able to resell it I'm sure. Personally, I think the rep bezel and insert is fine...