tc670207

Part I of II

A member asked me if I could cost down a little bit as spending $500 plus for a rep watch is extreme. While I was at my seller's place I turned this question to him and I got an answer to this. See gen ETA 2824 is retailing for $180 nowadays and the price will only go up. Gen ETA 2678 is only retailing for $80. This is a lady's size automatic movement that functions all the same like 2824 or 2836. The power reserve is 38 hours, but it performs nothing less than its bigger brothers.

So I brought back several 2678s and the movement retaining rings that is designed dedicated to house the small movement into a gen construction TC Sub watchcase.

Here are the parts: we've got the watchcase, the case back, the bezel assembly, crystal, dial and hands set, the bezel insert, gen ETA 2678 with the movement retaining ring a.k.a movement holder, and crown/tube set.

The movement holder is of an ingenious design! It secures the 2678 movement by movement's own screws that were used to secure the clamps. The assembled movement and movement holder works like a full size watch movement that flushes into the watchcase. Then the screws fastened the whole gut to the watchcase like a gen 3135 does to a gen watchcase. Notice there's no clamps here whatsorever. This is by far the most advanced way I have seen to house a movement, only seen in a Rolex. No big brands, not even Omega or Pams have adapted such an ingenious way to house the movement in their watchcases.

A side note on observation, this movement holder is made of a chunk of solid bronze. It feels quite heavy. When assembled with the 2678 movement, the whole piece weighs very similar like holding a bare gen 3135 movement. I will ask the seller if they have made this particular movement holder out of gen 3135's weight or if the weight of the complete watch ever considered when they first designed it.

The movement holder costs $20. It comes with 2 generic Rolex style screws to mount holder to watchcase. My seller offers a collections of movement holders, for 2678, for 2000, for 2824, for 2834, for 2836, and for 2892 and etc.

Let's take a look at TC's date wheel overlay (DWO). I was told to place double sided tape on the ridge of the movement holder on dial's side. By doing so, it'll give enough room for date wheel overlay to jump through just beneath the dial. This is what I did.

I fixed the DWO to 2678's date disc also by double sided tape. At date 30, there is a printed indicator. All I have to do is to align the indicator to the stem of the 2678 movement then press down.

Let's take a closer look at the DWO. Notice how each date is finely printed the Rolex font date is raised high gloss like gen. The DWO costs $15. The maker of the DWO has a MOQ of 200. I got this DWO through my case seller's connection.

I then installed the dial. There is no cutting feet, no modding needed. I just installed the dial and made micro adjustments by gently tapping the edge of the dial so the date is positioned in the center of dial's date window.

Let me show you how good this DWO is:

End of Part I

Shitinerand is an incredibly cool country. Have you ever been to Gelena? There is this company Monarch Polfy SA. I think they make the Polex stuff.

Oh I just received an email from my supervisor telling me I should visit this company Monarch Polfy SA. in Gelena Shitinerand in mid Feb. So I should work on my Chinglish real quick

Thanks Andy, I got it.

BR

TC

Sorry for the newbie question, but I couldn't find answer around.

I have a watch listed in the trade section and it is sold.

How To Mark Item [sOLD]?

Thanks

I want to introduce to you one of my latest findings during my CNY visits. I call it TC 93250 Bracelet V2.

I had a dinner with TC Submariner watchcase maker and his family. A lot of alcohol was consumed, a lot of red envelops were given to the children, and I asked him to refer a good bracelet maker so my TC Submariner would look better. A bracelet maker that his product is better than TC 92350 V1 maker.

Let's first review how gen SEL looks when fitted on gen watchcase. Notice there is no gap or play between the SEL and the case lugs.

The gen SEL sits just a tiny bit lower than the lugs surface. Note these pictures are taken from macro lenses. In reality, the height difference is very, very hard to notice.

This is gen mid link curve that chefcook pointed out a very important gen feature most rep bracelet makers ignored or just can't make.

Let's take a look at gen SEL finish.

Then the gen engravings within the trench of the SEL:

I met the V2 bracelet maker the next day. I'll just call him TC 93250 V2 maker.

Let's see TC 93250 V2's end link and its engraving. The construction is right, but it looks like it is a little bit thicker than gen.

The laser engraving fonts and placing looks right, but it is like the laser output was turned too high it actually burnt the steel surface. Nonetheless V2 quality appears to be better than V1.

Let's then check polishing job on the edge of the bracelet I mentioned lack on V1: It still has very sharp edge on surface side.

Here on the reverse side, the edges is slightly polished. A good sign of a well made bracelet.

I want to check how TC 93250 V2 Bracelet fits on the watchcase. Here's the fitment on TC Sub m-series:

It looks very good! Let's check the 12 o'clock side, this is still with the m-series case:

Notice TC 93250 V2's SEL sits just a tad higher on the m-series case than gen.

Now let's take a look at how V2's SEL fits on TC Sub v-series case:

V2's SEL sits at exactly the same height as gen does on v-series, as if V2's SEL is made matched to v-series case.

The clasp has slightly better polishing than V1. Note the V1 clasp is already good enough. The edges of safety buckle and clasp are mirror polished they are brighter, smoother than my gen clasp. Pictures of TC 93250 V2 clasp are available in my TC Submariner 16610 M-Series post.

V2 clasp operates smoothly and firmly with no play at all when opening and closing it. This is a unique feature only brand new gen clasp has. Over the time I have read on forums how good the quality legendary BK/wm9/wm10/TW Sub is. The thing surprised me is that the V2 engravings on the clasp matches the legendary BK/wm9/wm10/TW clasp from coolchu's review. Same DE6 initial and SWISS MADE without space between the two words.

Did I just find the holy grail? I don't know. There are thousands of bracelet makers in GD province and I have only visited 1/10th of them.

Now back to specs, width of TC 93250 V2 SEL is 20.13 mm. Length from lug to lug of TC Submariner Watchcase is 20.17 mm. There is still 0.04 mm gap in total, that is, 0.02 mm gap on each side. Gen's tolerance is only 0.01 mm in total, that is 0.005 mm on each side.

In conclusion, TC 93250 V2 Bracelet is an upgrade rather than the final solution in my pursuit of the perfect Submariner.

In terms of cost, the V2 bracelet maker didn't take my business directly because I could not fulfill his minimum order requirement so I was directed to his sales rep in GZ market. That guy asked $60 per piece. I pointed out so many details I don't like about, some I made up though, then we close the deal at $39. That's one thing I like doing business with Chinese, they take dollars!

A side note, people are wrong about dealers in GZ market don't open for business during CNY. In fact, Jan 5 in Lunar Calendar is one of their major business day of the year they call it "Spring Gathering". Dealers from all around China, South East Asia, and Russia gathered on that day and make major trades of the year. Once deal is made, gourmet food, alcohol, girls, and unthinkable games are on the table. But it is invitation only. Sorry, no pics here, those are rated R.

Thanks for reading

TC

That's a great looking watch! Lume seems a little bit blue-ish, did you PS that?

If this happens it will be awesome!!!

TC does it get wm9 dial or i will have to trim it???

I don't know if my dial is made by wm9 but I don't have to trim it to fit the case. It flushes into the case as gen does.

Tc, one Q. please.

Do the seller got on lugholized version too?

Last time I was in their presenting room, I didn't see a Sub case with lug holes. But I did find some vintage Sub cases that look like what I saw in MBK mall in Thailand.

I'll check that my seller in a few days.

Now on to your End Link project please Want to see if I have to continue with my project

Chef I'll make some update during my CNY visit to the suppliers.

this looks all very professional

so you creat your own brand here like MBW or Little Hero ?

are these TC Subs and parts for sale ?

cheers,

Frank

Frank, please check pm later.

Who sells this case?

I bought this case in HK.

One note.

A Lot of members here are Sub freaks like me for a long time.

Now you come to RWG and take the"who has the best Sub" to a new Level.

That's the first time that a member comes with his own sourced Sub in parts.

Simply amazing.

Thanks for that.

Thanks for compliment, Tribal.

TC,

I am in awe. thank you for the amazing work.

question for you, is the tc case actually 20mm at the lugs? or 20.13ish like the sean case?

and can you get a rep dial that fits in the case and is accurate!

M

I did a quick measurement using my caliber, it is 20.17 mm

Are you selling these "TC" cases? If so, you better be getting thousands of them! Every Sub fan and his brother will want one! HaHa

Excellent write up, looking forward to more!

I'll consider it.

I would love to know, as I am sure everyone would, where you can get one of these and how much they are?

The watchcase kit is one of the 3 things I think expansive but its quality made me believe I could build a very good Sub rep base on it.

I brought back 5 in my last trip. It is $180 each but there are 3 of m-series and only 2 of v-series. I thought they were the same at first but later I found v-series have better crown guard shape than m-series. I don't know if I'm being had or this is just a business trick my seller played on me.

http://tc-submariner.blogspot.com/?m=0

More news soon i guess?

Just as long he dosent call himself wm10 or somthing with wm in the future

What is wm10?

Yeah the bezel is below par yet again. Why do they never get the teeth good!

The case is great apart from the rehaut engraving. Puzzled as to why they overcomplicate the process of coying the case by wanting to add this feature as many would never want it and also many do not like it on gen Rolex either! me included!!

Great work TC so get ready to sell many of these!!

I have a suspicion though that we will see completed watches soon using this case and the updated 2nd generatoin of the 3135 so called clone movement!

I'll check that with the N-factory owner during my CNY visit.

Part II

Let's then take a look at how gen crown fits TC Sub tube. Crown screw in, screw out, pull out the crown to the "heck" position, push in the crown to winding position, it operates smoothly just like the crown is with the gen tube.

Let's take a look at TC Sub's bezel assembly and then mount it on the watchcase:

Then screwing the crown down to the watchcase end, with the bezel assembly mounted.

So far, it is confirmed that TC Submariner watchcase can

1. house a gen 3135 including gen dial, gen hands, with no additional modification, checked.

2. take gen 25-295-c crystal with gen 2.5 mm gasket and the date mag still reads at 2.5x, checked.

3. tube takes gen crown, checked.

4. take gen caseback, checked.

I'm going to dis-assemble the gen bezel assembly then take gen bezel insert to see if it fits TC Sub bezel assembly. Here's the tool:

Steady and easy:

Pearl on the gen bezel insert. This is the last mile:

Side by side comparison of gen bezel assembly and TC Sub bezel assembly:

I put the gen guts back to the gen Sub watchcase, leaving only gen bezel insert ready to be mounted on TC Sub bezel assembly.

Here it is. The gen bezel insert fits on TC Submariner bezel assembly perfectly, it clicks into TC Sub bezel ring just like popping into its own gen bezel ring. No additional modifications needed.

Let's take a look the laser engravings between the lugs. Apparently the fonts are different. The engravings on the gen looks far smoother than on TC's, but I don't really care about this.

Finally, let's take a look at the crown position, gen vs. TC side by side:

Now I confirm that TC Submariner watchcase fits the description of "taking gen parts". It can

1. house gen 3135 movement, and gen dial flushes into the watchcase opening without any modifcation.

2. take gen 2.5 mm gasket and gen 25-295-c crystal and the magnification still reads at 2.5x.

3. TC Sub's tube takes gen crown with no problem.

4. bezel assembly takes gen bezel insert.

5. take gen caseback.

6. TC Sub's crown position is identical to gen.

and

7. This watchcase is designed to house ETA 2824, Sellita SW200, ETA 2892, and so on.

8. My seller also told me, with a proper movement holder, this watchcase could house an ETA 2836 or Sellita SW220.

This watchcase is one of the 3 major parts that are expansive to me in my project to build the perfect Submariner replica. However, it stands out from all the other competitors. I didn't know how good it is as a base kit until now. I want to thank to the member who asked me the question, "could your TC Sub watchcase take gen parts?"

Yes, it can!

Thanks for reading.

TC.

Part I

A member asked me if the TC Submariner watchcase can take gen parts. I didn't know what does that mean at first. After massively reading and researching the forums, I conclude "taking gen parts" by strict definition, means the watchcase should be able to

1. house gen 3135 movement without any modification, that is to say the gen dial should flush into the watchcase opening without any modifcation as well.

2. take gen 2.5 mm gasket and gen 25-295-c crystal and the magnification should still reads at 2.5x.

3. tube takes gen crown with no problem.

4. bezel assembly takes gen bezel insert.

5. take gen caseback.

So I'm determined to make an experiment on the TC Sub watchcase I brought back. An experiment that may damage my gen Submariner - I am going to swap the gen guts into the TC Sub watchcase, and see if all these gen parts could fit on it.

Let's take a final good look at the gen Submariner one last time.

Here is the TC Submariner watchcase that is ready to receive transplant. Note that the laser etching "X" is aligned to the tube. This is a good sign of attending to details.

Gen Submariner 16610 crown guard shape:

TC Submariner crown guard shape:

Ok, let's open the gen Sub caseback:

Gen Rolex 3135 movement. It is beautiful!

Note the screws on the sides of the 3135 movement. This is how Rolex mounts its movement to the watchcase.

Let's then check the crown and tube:

There are 2 O-rings within the tube:

Let's make a side by side comparison of gen caseback (to the left) and TC Submariner caseback (to the right). The diameters of the two casebacks are the same. So I assume gen caseback could fit on TC Sub watchcase and vise versa. Finish of the gen caseback looks better though.

Then the lugs shape:

Other observations:

I noticed my gen Submariner's 25-295-c crystal has an AR coating applied underneath the cyclops. I looked my other gen, a 2002 k-series Yacht-Master, a 2006 z-series two-tone Submariner, and found there's no AR coating applied underneath the cyclops. I don't know if it is a new upgrade, but it does make easier to read the date through cyclops.

Here's one thing I found TC Sub watchcase is different from the gen. This is gen movement receiving hole:

Here's TC Sub watchcase movement receiving hole. Note the gen receiving hole is located at 8 o'clock with a slightly bigger R curve. TC Sub watchcase has a smaller R curve receiving hole located at 9 o'clock.

Nonetheless the gen dial and 3135 movement flushes into TC Sub watchcase smoothly.

Placing a silicone oil greased O-ring:

Unscrewing the screws until they touches the watchcase chapter and fastened the movement to the watchcase:

Let's see how gen caseback fits on TC Sub watchcase. Fits perfectly.

Let's see how the laser engravings aligns with gen dial minute lines:

Let's see how a gen 25-295-c crystal with a 2.5mm gasket fits. This is taken from my gen Sub LV.

Other observations:

My gen Sub LV is of m-series. The crystal does not have AR applied underneath the cyclops, so I believe it must be an upgraded feature since v-series. My gen Sub 16610 is v-series.

End of Part I

TC if you read this please ask your contact about 93150s with 501 end links

Andy, I asked my seller he doesn't have 93150 bracelet. He has 93250, 93253, 93160A, and 78760 and that's it.

TC

This happened:

Cheers!

TC

The reference number of the GMT II strap is 78790A. The flip lock is shorter as the standard fliplock on a sub bracelet.

Carpe Diem

Cats

I asked my seller, he doesn't have 78790A bracelet, but he has 78760 and 93160A bracelet. I'll bring some back the next time I'm dispatched to Asia.

Are you sharing your source or do we need to pm you if we want a bracelet?

My seller is Chinese. I'm pretty sure he doesn't speak English. If you speak Chinese, I'd love to send him business.

Amazing! One question, can you get me a bracelet or two! Not kidding, pm me is this can happen!

Thanks for the awesome write up!

M

M, I'm glad to. Pls give me a pm.

Incredible, can you make a perfect bracelet for my GMT II

Carpe Diem

Cats

Cats, I didn't make the bracelet, I bought it. Do you know the reference number of the GMT bracelet? I'd happy to ask my seller if they have it or not for you.

A member commissioned me to build the second TC Submariner. I promised to document the process before sending out the watch.

Before beginning the assembly, I want to make a brief introduction to the 93250 Oyster Bracelet I bought. This particular part costs only $30. It is cheap, comparing to other marked parts, but it has its disadvantages and rooms for perfection.

Let's start with the spring bar that holds the end link to the lugs.

The spring bar is of gen construction and 1:1 to gen size, 2.00 mm.

Gen spring bar to the left, and TC's spring bar to the right. The spring bars comes with the bracelet.

On one side, the end link fits the TC Sub watchcase perfectly.

On another side, the end link is too narrow it leaves 0.05 mm gap from the lug. It is not notice-able for bare eyes, but the gap just can not be ignored under a macro lens.

Gen 93250 laser engraving within the SEL

Gen SEL finish:

TC's 93250 laser engraving within the SEL:

TC's 93250 SEL finish:

TC's 93250 SEL with gen 2.0mm spring bar

TC 93250 Bracelet has hollow mid-links. This is a gen feature. However, the edges of the bracelet are not very well polished. It feels a little bit sharp.

I polished 3 remove-able links using #400 sand paper for the initial polishing, #600 and #800 for finer polishing. The result is promising!

The diver's extension clasp marking, gen and TC:

Gen marking on the clasp VS. TC's. My gen Submariner is of V-Series. I think my seller uses an older series as datum i.e. K-series.

Gen K-series clasp marking:

The polishing job of the clasp edges and safety buckle edges are top notch. I don't understand why my seller doesn't polish the edges of the bracelet just a little bit more so it would give the whole bracelet gen feel. But the bracelet is only $30, what can I ask more?

The markings within the clasp:

In conclusion, this is the best quality 93250 oyster bracelet I could find during the 4 months searching, and it doesn't come expansive at all.

It does have some disadvantages such as narrow end link on one side and sharp edges on the bracelet. But it also has some great features: top notch quality clasp, in and out; gen style hollow mid links; and the edges on the bracelet are so easy to be improved, one can polish off the sharp edges with only sand papers at home.

One thing I forget to mention, the screws on the remove-able links are very easy to operate. They flush into each link cleanly end to end. This is nothing I see from other replicas found in GZ watch market or anywhere else. And it costs only $30.

One member asked me if the TC Submariner watchcase is of gen construction. Here's some pictures of the watchcase.

At the 12 o'clock side, it is laser engraved "ORIG. ROLEX DESIGN with 16610 T" underneath. At the 6 o'clock side, "STAINLESS STEEL with M588220 underneath".

The caseback is stamped "ROLEX GENEVA SWITZERLAND STAINLESS STEEL" and ROLEXSA with an oval circle around it followed by the number "2160".

The bezel assembly is constructed with 4 pieces: a inner ring, a thin flat steel ring, a spring bar, and the bezel ring which holds the bezel insert perfectly.

The crown turns 2 and half cycles to fully screwed in. There are 1 rubber o-ring on the stem of the crown, 2 rubber o-rings within the tube, and 1 rubber o-ring on the tube.

M5 case, could be wm9 even. wheres the date wheel from?

From HK, bought with the mvmt.

180 for the case ? where ?

care to get a few more ? i offer 250 for it

I have 1 spare. give me a pm if you really want it.

Looks really good!

Cant believe you got the parts so cheap.

So u must build a lot of them and sell them now

I'll think about it.

It's a very very good work here !

I just do not agree about the fact you leaved the rehaut engraving, witch is very bad and obviously telling it's fake, but everything else is great !

Even the pearl is not so bad

Congrats !

That's right! I thought about that too, but can't get rid of it.

Beautiful!!! Amazing comparison there! Thanks for sharing that. Subtle differences between the two dials in the last shot, but the biggest tell for me (and the part that would drive me nuts) is the coronet. That gen dial really makes a HUGE difference! Now get that 2893 in there!!!

I don't think this case could house a 2893. Otherwise, beautiful watch!

very nice looking! love the side x side comparison

whats the breakdown of parts?

Case $180, Crown $20, Crystal $35, Bezel Insert $15, Dial & Hands $65, Lume job $35, Bracelet $30, Mvmt $180, Rolex Font Disc with Labor $20. That's about it. I remember the case, dial, and the movement are the 3 things that are costly.

Excellent job! What was the original piece, noob.

I have no idea. Bought all parts in HK except mvmt from a Swiss friend.

My first time building up a watch.

Parts from various sources. Cost per piece: roughly at $500, I lost count. Time spent: 4 months. Joy gained: priceless.

To the left is the gen of mine I use as datum.