The Technician

Don't be a fool The Zigmeister, even the old L&R rotary machines have a heat/spin cycle. For a reason. Centrifugal force and evaporation. Moves dirt and fluid away while accelerating evaporation. You use a hand blower intended for keeping dust out while you work. Did you use 4 rinse (different containers, each cleaner than the other) steps like I said? I bet you didn't. Yours looks like you haven't rinsed at all. I'm not calling your basic method to task, as taking everything down, rubbing it with naptha and a stick and drying in sawdust does work, but you are being european silly about what actually NEEDS to be done to make sure a watch is running correctly. And deep down you know it. Like I said, I did it like you for 10 years. I know total disassembly works, but it isn't necessary in all cases. Or even most. If you have professional equipment and skill. How many REAL watchmakers do you talk to daily? Ones who actually make parts? Who can bring a rusty wreck back from the dead without ordering stuff based on calibre? One less than I do, apparently. My boss does "vibrate" hairsprigs, and he's been doing this for more than 30 years. It's standard instruction in watch school. Not so specialized for people who have actual training in the field outside of books or web forums. (No, I didn't go to school either, but now I'm recieving instruction from someone who did, and he's passing what works down to me. Not dogma.) I post here for fun, not profit. You post here for profit, it seems. I service watches, you service watches (here). Mine all time out to spec or better, you say the same. (But I still say you use too much grease.) I've gotten ONE watch back in the 300+ I've done in the last 6 months. You keep the faith, old man. I'll learn how to do things the effective and efficent way and move forward. And I'll learn how to use a lathe to MAKE parts. And I'll learn how to make hairsprings. And since that was a point of contention for you, (since he didn't mine the metals, smelt and and draw it out to fine wire himself)even if he was actually pounding out wire, why would that be so strange? All these old pocketwatches we see every day are handmade, long before calipers and even electric light. And they work great. After we service them. As soon as I figure out how to take decent pics I'll show you what's what, and the inside of some watches you will never see outside of pictures, that I get to work on, or watch a master watchmaker work on daily. Though I'm in no rush, as this forum isn't my livelyhood.

Don't be a fool The Zigmeister, even the old L&R rotary machines have a heat/spin cycle. For a reason. Centrifugal force and evaporation. Moves dirt and fluid away while accelerating evaporation. You use a hand blower intended for keeping dust out while you work. Did you use 4 rinse (different containers, each cleaner than the other) steps like I said? I bet you didn't. Yours looks like you haven't rinsed at all. I'm not calling your basic method to task, as taking everything down, rubbing it with naptha and a stick and drying in sawdust does work, but you are being european silly about what actually NEEDS to be done to make sure a watch is running correctly. And deep down you know it. Like I said, I did it like you for 10 years. I know total disassembly works, but it isn't necessary in all cases. Or even most. How many REAL watchmakers do you talk to daily? Ones who actually make parts? Who can bring a rusty wreck back from the dead without ordering stuff based on calibre? One less than I do, apparently. My boss does "vibrate" hairsprigs, and he's been doing this for more than 30 years. It's standard instruction in watch school. Not so specialized for people who have actual training in the field outside of books or web forums. (No, I didn't go to school either, but now I'm recieving instruction from someone who did, and he's passing what works down to me. Not dogma.) I post here for fun, not profit. You post here for profit, it seems. I service watches, you service watches (here). Mine all time out to spec or better, you say the same. (But I still say you use too much grease.) I've gotten ONE watch back in the 300+ I've done in the last 6 months. You keep the faith, old man. I'll learn how to do things the effective and efficent way and move forward. And I'll learn how to use a lathe to MAKE parts. And I'll learn how to make hairsprings. And since that was a point of contention for you, (since he didn't mine the metals, smelt and and draw it out to fine wire himself)even if he was actually pounding out wire, why would that be so strange? All these old pocketwatches we see every day are handmade, long before calipers and even electric light. And they work great. After we service them. As soon as I figure out how to take decent pics I'll show you what's what, and the inside of some watches you will never see outside of pictures, that I get to work on, or watch a master watchmaker work on daily. Though I'm in no rush, as this forum isn't my livelyhood.

I didn't intend to try to teach total beginners how to do it. Battery swap is $2 for standard, $7 for lithium. The girl at the counter in the front does them, unless the watch is a nice one. Why do you use so many periods?

They'll FALL OFF if you take the calendar mech apart like you need to. I didn't mention the calendar mech because not all watches have one, and they are all different unless they are variations of the same movement. And I also told you to SPIN IT DRY, which you admit you aren't capable of doing. I told you to oil the cap jewels in place with a auto oiler, which you also couldn't do. I didn't think I'd have to walk you through everyu step. I'm not a typist. Whatever The Zigmeister. Here's an article on making a new hairspring in watch school: http://www.tp178.com/jd/watch-school/6/article.htmld That one guy in the SWATCH group must be teaching others how to do it now.

You are willfully ignorant, The Zigmeister. I didn't tell you to not take apart the calendar mech, because it's obvious you need to. I didn't mention the dial side at all, because the hour and minute wheel will FALL OFF if you don't take them off. And I didn't tell you not to pull the cannon pinion because I thought you would understand. I told you to pull the winding bridge, and leave the CLICK SPRING in place, not the wheel. I basically told you to leave everything you didn't have to dissassemble in place, I figured you'd know how you carry that out properly. I'll take pictures of how it's done when I can. Photography is not my specialty. You also obviously did not rinse thouroghly with L&R cleaning solution & rinse, (THE ONLY CLEANER AND RINSE A WATCHMAKER SHOULD USE) and do no have a heat/spin dry cycle on your ultrasonic, otherwise all that goo wouldn't be left behind. From the looks of that I'll bet you don't use proper cleaning solution at all. To lube the barrel wall, use your smallest oiler in the gap between the spring and barrel wall. You have way too much grease on that barrel wall. That will result in too little friction causing the spring to slip when the watch is not at full wind. Your method = reduced power reserve. Forgot: Also, the cap jewels WILL come clean in an ultrasonic when together if you use proper cleaner and rinse, and will dry in a spin cycle, but you can't oil them in place without an automatic oiler, which you obviously don't have. Nobody makes hairsprings? Where do they come from? Storks? I just watched my boss make a new one for a 100+ year old minute repeater. Heat bluing and everything.

When you oil a movement, it (with the exception of the cap jewels ((unless you have an automatic oiler)) and a few other parts) is mostly back together anyways. This method allows you to clean the average movement without taking -everything- apart and achieve the same results. All stupid analogies aside, it never occured to me to do it this way because it isn't taught in any of the books, mostly because they were all written by guys in the 1930's who had to take everything down, clean it by hand with pegwood and dry parts in sawdust. No modern equipment available. I think the adherents to the NO WAY BUT MY WAY has more to do with long division "so the kid understands what they're doing" than lack of effectiveness, or ignorance and blind adherence to dogma. All you have to do is try it to see that it works, or not. If you have a super gummy movement, or one that has problems other than normal dirt and dried lube you will have to take the whole thing down as I always did, and The Zigmeister still does, everytime. But now I'm turning out watches at 3 times the rate, with the same results doing it this way. I'll take my lessons from the guy that MAKES hairsprings, arbors, screws, etc... that I can watch and talk to from now on. [censored], if all you do is read books, and do it note for note without questioning, you'll never progress. I didn't. George Daniels recommends you just throw out old screwdriver blades when they are worn rather than sharpening. Plain [censored]. If all I worked on were top drawer Chopard's and APs, you can bet they'd get that treatment everytime. But i'm working in the real world, and the time saved gets passed on to the consumer as dollars saved. Once you get past the "magical" watch stage, and see how everything works together it's no different than a car. I do a normal tune up, without buggering things up, and fix and other current or up and coming problems as fast as possible without any shortcuts AS FAR AS RESULTS. All the shortcuts are in labor. I have a great tip I'd share that makes pushers super fast and easy to install and remove, but since there are "no tricks", please don't take a stout pair of tweezers and put a notch into one of the tips so you can put downward pressure onto the clamps when putting them back without slippage. 3rd, I'm not selling anything. Nothing. No services, no dials, no relumes, no parts. Just posting tips when I have time because I feel like it. All are welcome to try and discard anything I have to say. Just trying to contribute.

Try joining the AWI instead. The NAWCC is mostly collectors and amature watchmakers, plus they are mostly clock people. The AWIs publication is invaluable for tips and tricks, and general watchmaking fun.

I'll bet you bent your hairspring just a tiny bit when you did that. Try a local watchmaker.

What part of the movement did you touch with the needle?

Sounds like you either broke or unscrewed your stem from your crown. Take it to a local watchmaker. Should cost under $20 to fix.

I'm prettty sure The ZigmeisterZumba is in Canada. Look him up on the boards.

Ok The Zigmeister. I did it that way for 10 years. First off, I never said anything about a "lube rinse". I have no idea where you got that. I oil the watch normally after the cleaning with 9010, 8415, D5, 941, PML, etc.. Next time try this: Pull your autowind bridge. Pull your winding bridge off. Leave the click spring in the bridge. Leave the balance in place. Leave the keyless works in place or as much as possible. Pop your mainspring barrel open, put open side down in cleaner basket. Do 10 minutes in the cleaner step, and three rinse steps at 4 minutes apiece, then spin dry for 10 to 20 minutes. Pull the balance, one dip it, use an automatic oiler on the cap jewels while they are in place(auto oiler is also a big time saver, buy one) and check everything out. Lube normally. Put on timer, see perfectly running watch. Now tear it completely down like you normally do. It's as clean as it would be if you had done that in the first place, isn't it? My mentor's watches stay out for 5 to 7 years after service like this. He let me do it the hard way for a month before he showed me how he managed to work on 6 watches at a time. Obviously there are watches that are either rust damaged or have been too long without a service to do like this, but on the average watch it works like a dream. Try it before you pooh-pooh the whole idea. He's no dummy. I work for his family, and they've owned the business for 51 years. We are swamped with business and if it was a sub-par way of doing things, we wouldn't have customers who have been coming in for 2 generations for service. It's a matter of determining whether the watch needs a complete teardown to get clean. It just isn't necessary most of the time. If you think $45 to $150 for a service and regulation with a year guarantee from a brick and mortar shopthat has been there for 51 years is a swindling, you're welcome to your opinion. I did it just like you for 10 years. A school-trained master watchmaker with 30 years in the business showed me this. I suggest you try it before you knock it.

OK, first of all, I'd like to say that the ETA movements in most of these watches you guys discuss on this site are very nice and if they are oiled correctly and no junk is left in the case will run well for many years without worry. So if you have a 28..whatever under your caseback, and it's been done right from the beginning, you have a nice watch, regardless of the fakery of the rest of the parts. 20 seconds a day is not bad for an unregulated movt. But with tweaking for the owner's habits, most are capable of much more. Hairsprings are a [censored]. Never attempt to correct errors in your own hairspring if you can see them and you don't have lots of practice. I still practice, and I still curse them. Not necessarily relevant to the reps here, but since most of you are across the board enthusiasts, here's a good one. a 3 slotted screw in a handwind or auto ALWAYS denotes left hand thread. In a chrono, it can also mean it is an eccentric (adjustment screw). Never touch the 3 slotted screws in a chrono if you don't know what they are connected to. The factory adjusted them, and chances are you won't be able to improve upon their work. 2 slots can also mean the same thing. the extra slots are not just decoration. Waterproofing is not forever. Even in gens. Always get it checked before you go swimming if it's been a couple of years or you have had your case open. And make sure you crown is screwed down. Black dials will show EVERY flaw, so be careful when working on them. The tiniest scratch will show, and you'll forever kick yourself. Don't pull the whole movement apart for service if you have a decent ultrasonic. This was the biggest trick I've learned yet. Pull the windiUnless the movement is rusty or very old and gummy all will come clean in the ultrasonic, and save you a ton of labor. You can check pivots and play with the wheels and pallet fork in place. Trust me on this one. My mentor/bossman with over 30 years does it this way and it works. Now I do too. Use end cutters, not side cutters when fitting new stems. Almost no dressing required in comparison, and way faster. Also, if you cut just a little too short, flatten a piece of solder, and cut little chips off with a razor blade, and "pack" the crown with them to make it fit. This trick can save you lots of grief. Most non-AD watchmakers will work on your reps. You might be charged a little more because reps are a pain, but trust me, we see tons of them. Not many will turn you away. I'm beered up right now, and that's all I can think of right now, but until next time, happy watchbreaking!

Ploprof. Grail of many diver watch fans. The red button unlocks the bezel.

I have gen hands and a dial on my 4th gen PO and some c3 and c1 powder, and it's actually c3 on the gen. If you look at c1 it's VERY white, c3 looks identical to the gen markers and hand lume color.