rionrlty

This is a fishing expedition to see what kind of demand there is from forum members in CONUS for having watch crystals AR coated. I'm in Southern California and there are companies here who do various AR coatings on everything from $1.5 million dollar, one foot square saphire radar lenses for the military to eyeglass lenses for optometrists and in materials ranging from polycarbonate to heat tempered glass. Regrettably he has yet to do any watch crystals. The process has to be done under extreme heat to get the proper hardness and scratch resistance. It is almost always done on both sides of the lens. I'm told there are two basic types and one has a slightly blue tint, the other a slightly green tint when viewed against a white surface. The price would be $40 per crystal with a mimimum run of 4-5 units. They make 3-4 runs a week with a 3 day turn around time not including the time for me to receive and return the crystal at/from my location. Postage would be minimal but the responsibility of the buyer/owner of the crystal. This seems to be a much shorter turn around than other AR services I've seen on the forum. I'm currently trying to get together enough crystals for a test run to evaluate quality and if your willing to participate I will only charge $20 each just for the test run. I can contribute 2 of my own so I only need a few more to make the test run. Please send me a personal message if interested. Mike (rionrtly)

Actually I did that first with string but it loosened up more so I used string and superglued it in place. It looks fine and I can't see well enough anymore to use the slide rule function anyway. I sure would like to get the movement transplant and AR done though. I love that watch and now they don't make it anymore. rionrlty

I'm looking for someone to repair my Navitimer fighters. It has a 6 year old broken A7750. The watch looks great so I would like to put in a gen 7750. Also the bezzle is loose and needs repair. It is super glued in place right now. I would also like the AR to be done as the watch never had any. Please contact me if you know of someone or can do it yourself. I am in Southern California, US. rionrlty

The original Cobra might be a little better than the Factory five, but a Super Performance Cobra is a virtual double to the original only better handling and more driveable. At around $60,000 the difference is still many orders of Magnitude and who in their right mind would drive and abuse a 2 million dollar car? Thanks for your support. rionrlty

Ssteel suggested that I post pictures of my collection. This is way less than half so I guess my original estimate of 100 was on the low side. If you guys would like me too I will take pictures of the rest and post them in a couple of days. Please keep in mind that a lot of these date back many years when reps were not so accurate. As you can see they are grouped by brand as much as possible.

Hi Paneristi, I have a good story too Back about 20 years ago the only really good replicas were Rolex Subs and Yacht Masters. I had both in stainless steel and they were two of my earliest watches. They both came with ETA movements and still perform well to this day. I was curious about just how good they were and took the Yacht Master in to a watchmaker who had worked on my gen watches for a long time. Restoring old Rolex’ was kind of a hobby for him. He was also a good friend so I felt safe. I handed it to him and told him I had just picked it up on Ebay for a really good price but it was running slow and ask him to check it out for me. He always let me come in the back near his work bench so I followed him in and we talked about the watch for a while. He said it really looked great to him and that I’d really made a good buy. I watched as he used the special tool to remove the back cover and continued as he donned his loop visor and started the inspection. He looked for maybe a minute and put up his visor and just continued to stare down at the watch. After a couple of minutes he removed the visor and, clearly reluctantly, turned around with a very serious look on his face. “I’m afraid I have some bad news for you”, He said, and then continued “someone has put an incorrect movement in this Rolex”. I just stood there smiling broadly and then finally simply said, “I know, It’s what they call a replica”. “It’s a what”? He asked. He was clearly relieved that I knew about the watch and was impressed with the quality. Once he was aware of it he began to notice small differences but commented that without knowing he probably would not have suspected. Good replicas were more expensive back then and when I told him that I had paid $550 for the watch he was even more impressed. At that time I had two Genuine SS Date Justs but from that time forward felt good about my sub and YM.

As I said earlier I’ve been into reps for nearly 20 years. In a way I’ve kind of grown with the industry. I don’t believe that good replicas really change the bottom line much at the gen manufacturers. A long held theory of mine has been largely confirmed during my short time so far on the forum. People who own reps, especially good ones, also own gens. Reps are a matter of practicality for many for who can't afford to own 20, 50, or even a 100 genuine expensive watches. However, when I wear a $300 Submariner the vast majority of people who see it, do not suspect that it’s not real. It just makes them want a real one. As a result I feel that what we do is actually a form of advertising, which promotes the brand. I’ve been a restorer and collector of classic cars for most of my life. Most of the cars that are restored are done, at least partly, by amateurs using poorly made reproduced parts. Amateur labor and poor reproduction parts combined meant that most restored cars fell far below the pinnacle of a “Concourse Quality” restoration. However 99.9% of the people who saw them at a typical car show considered them to be like new and were unable to see a difference between them and the show winning perfect car. As a result, after restoring several of these “concourse quality” cars I fell back to much less expensive ordinary restorations which seemed to give me the same amount of satisfaction. I think it’s the same with replica watches. I can pick out microscopic imperfections on a restored car as well as some of the experts on the forum can pick out small flaws in replica watches. I take pride in that ability and appreciate that someone can and will do that on the watches. I too gravitate toward perfection but, as I learned on my cars, perfection costs a lot of money. I would rather have ten, slightly imperfect cars, instead of one perfect one, which I can’t drive anyway because I might reduce its perfection by doing so. Perhaps a good compromise would be to have one perfect one, to take to shows on a trailer and win admiration from experts, and 9 slightly imperfect ones, to use every day in public, for which I get the same amount of attention from the masses of uninitiated admirers. I read most of the reviews on the forum especially Breitling which is my favorite brand. I appreciate that someone took the trouble to do these reviews and take great pride in having learned from this. The truth is however that probably 999,999 out 100,000 people you meet, even with the Navitimer and it’s numerous flaws, would not be able to spot the replica, even with a 10x loop and plenty of time and I think this goes for most owners of genuine Navitimers. In fact I believe that over 2/3 of watch makers would not know the difference with a cursory examination. I’ve owned several real Navitimers, as well as several other brands, down through the years and what is most obvious is the evolutionary changes, even on gens, over that period of time. This was especially evident after mass production started and many parts, especially dials, were sub-contracted, so just as on production automobiles, things changed slightly over years or even months. It’s great that someone is interested enough to find and record the history of these changes but, once again, the average Joe, even rich ones who have no problem spending $30,000 on a watch, would not know the difference. That’s just my opinion folks. I’d like to hear yours.

I'll give it a try but most of my watch picture taking is with a good digital with a super macro setting in special light box which is too small to hold more than maybe 5 watches at a time. I'll have to experiment with settings on the camera and see what happens. rionrlty

Its not easy to take a picture of 100 watches all at one time but I will try to take smaller groupings and post them. Like I said, the older ones or more of the cheaper ones and many are fantasy reps. I moved about a year ago and just got my photo gear set up for the first time since the move. I expect I'll be posting some of the better ones in the for sale forum because want get some new ones. rionrtly

A few years ago a cache of new old stock Breitlings was found in the old factory building they occupied before going out of business. There were stop watches, and others but the one Iiked bestg was a gold plated Cosmonaute 24 hour watch with black dial. It came without a band or buckle. I had a gen buckle so I sourced an aftermarket band for it. I wish I still had it for comparison reasons. If I remember right, although it looked like modern Navitimers, it was only about 40mm in size (Modern Navs are near 42mm). It was also hand wind but lacked the heft of the later ones to. rionrlty

Hi Ssteel, I had the same thought when I compared them. Whats missing here is a gen example of the larger 20mm deployant to get a better comparison. This deployant came on a late 90's genuine Super Ocean with blue dial that I had. I also had a rep Super Ocean at the time to compare it to and for it's day it was one of the best reps around. I still have the SO but I later sold the gen but kept the deployant which was on a thrashed gen Breitling brown leather strap. Anyone out there got a gen 20mm deployant so we can compare? rionrlty

Here is a comparison betwee Gen and Rep deployant and band size. Mine came with a replica black lea. strap and deployant, and it is more comfortable and I prefer it to the SS bracelet. But the SS looks so awesome. I actually have an aftermarket strap with an original Breitling deployant that I used on my Serie Speciale also and here are some comparison shots. The Gen is on the left and rep on the right. Both the rep and gen lea band are 22mm at the lugs, but the rep is 20mm at the deployant, and the gen is only 18mm. The gen deployant is much smaller, more rounded and more finished looking too. Note the engraved emblem. The rep is better than most but is really different from gen. I think the rep. deployant was probably created for the larger watches like the Avenger. rionrlty

I've been collecting both gens and reps for almost 20 years. I have over 100 reps, many of them cheaper examples and many with quartz movements. I have only been on the forum now for a few weeks. For the last 6 years I've been wearing, as my main, watch a Navitimer Serie Speciale black dial with an early A7750 movement that I sourced from Narikaa. I loved that watch even though It had silver subdials and I was never sure if that was accurate. The watch always ran slow, one minute plus per day, so had to be adjusted frequently. Probably because of this the stem finally pulled out and would not stay in. Also the bezzle loosened up until it rattled and and had no resistence to turning. I finally glued it in place. I tried to have the watch fixed but was unable to. A couple of weeks ago I started looking for a replacement. I finally bought a catch and release from one of the members through the for sale forum. It was the black and white version with the 28,800 A7750 movement, but not a Serie Speciale. It came with SS band, plus a leather band with deployant clasp. I am extremely happy with it, especially since I Iearned after receiving it that production had stopped and they were no longer available, even considering the flaws noted in some of the reviews. I've been wearing it for perhaps a week now and surprise! It seems to be keeping perfect time. I have a small wrist and this is my favorite watch style of all time. The SS band, which had never been adjusted, just fits my small wrist at full length, so is very short and probably would not be long enough for most people. The Serie Speciale came with 4 links more than needed. Per advise on the forum I soaked and lubricated the band to loosen it up. Regrettably this also loosened some of the tiny screws in the pins and one went missing. I had extra links from the Serie Speciale so tried one of those screws. The threads did not match. The pin for the old band was slightly larger than the new one so did not fit. After reducing the size slightly it was made to fit and my band is now complete, but if I lose another screw, I am screwed (pun intended). My biggest complaint with this watch, other than the band, is the engraving on the back. While correct, it is lazer etched and very shallow. I have other, cheaper Navitimer reps with accurate backs but none will interchange. I am considering changing to the incorrect back off of my Serie Speciale (if it will fit) just so it doesn't look so cheap. Here are a few pictures of the new watch. rionrlty

Does anyone know of a rep of the original Lindberg hour angle watch?

thanks for the reply. I'm not sure it's a 380 because it has sandwich dial but it is the same shape and size with the wire lugs. Poor rep though as the gold is already going away.

Hey guys. I am new to RWG but have been collecting gens and reps for almost 20 years now, mostly Breitlings and Rolex. I have a small wrist and most of the Panerais are too big for me to wear. I do however have a 45mm Radiomir Blackseal (380?) with a sandwich dial and wire lugs. I love it. It is in gold however, Was this watch ever made in gold or is this a fantasy rep? I love your site and have been plodding through for a week or more trying to learn everything I can.

I am new to RWG. I have been collecting gens and reps for over 20 years now and have a collection that numbers more than 100. Regrettably most are older, cheaper and less than accurate reps many of them with incorrect quartz movements. I do however have some better reps that I've collected over the last 5 years or so. I have been using a Navitimer speciale for about 6 years now and it finally gave up the ghost a couple of months ago. It was SS w/Black dial and silver sub-dials. I loved it and it kept reasonable time but the stem broke and could not be repaired. Also the bezzle had gotten loose and was an aggravation. I have a question regarding the deployment buckles on the Navitimers and others. I have a genuine older Super Ocean that came with a spare leather band and gen. deployment. It has no prong or holes in the strap and so is infinitely adjustable and I can tighten or loosen it if my wrist varies during the day. I notice that some of the newer reps come with a similar deployment but much larger and thicker than my gen version although they are for the same size strap. Most of the Navitimer reps have a different deployment with a prong and holes in the strap. Is this simply a poor imitation or did Breitling actually have both versions"