archibald

An absolute Tank of a watch. Mine has been my weekend work around the house watch for 3 1/2 years--absolutely beat to hell but still keeping great time. It is also pretty accurate except for one huge flaw--the gen has a date.

why can make chanel ceramic

and why can not do panerai 292 ceramic

i can not understand???????????????????????????

I asked the same question about the Black Magic...the answer was basically "we don't know why but we can't make it."

Puretime sells a brushed ceramic version. But still its not good because the gen does not have the 2 dudes riding a tuna on the dial...

I thought there was a gen w/ the cheesy dudes. Maybe someone @ Panerai had a sudden flash of clarity, and that dealbreaking logo was removed from the production version.

any mods feel free to remove/delete/or move this post.

i am going to pick up some genuine parts for some members later on and the dealer has let me know that there is a NEW genuine Super Avenger BLACK dial and a WHITE dial available. if any member would like these for a Franken please let me know. ONLY ONE of EACH. first come first served. $385 shipped anyhere in the world EXPRESS with tracking a PPAL INCLUDED.

also eta/val 25j 7750s in stock and read to go.

NO other dials or parts avail. however i can always check ;-)

If you could check for any montbrillant datora dials, I'd certainly be willing to pay top dollar...

As for brand-named merchandise, sure it is a possibility but I have a lot more faith in the ability of legitimate corporations to audit the factories they do business with than I do in the black market.

You do? I'd bet that after about 15 minutes of doing some googling on the working conditions in the chinese factories making stuff you use every day, you won't.

The manufacturers of genuine brand name products certainly have more to lose from adverse publicity and that should provide some deterent against using slave labor. Whether defending their good name is sufficient incentive to avoid the practice is anyones' guess. However, we know that the manufacturers of reps don't face the constraint of defending their good name.

If regulation and enforcement are lacking, if organized labor and watchdog groups are non existant, and if the media is state run where's the risk?

How do you know that you're getting a gen bezel and crystal and how is it available without the gen case? Is this allegedly coming from someone who broke up a J111?

My point exactly - unless there is a clear provinence to the bezel & crystal you should not assume that this is what's being offered for sale. How did someone acquire a gen bezel unless they parted out a gen watch and parting the gen case from its bezel makes no sense whatsoever - this needs very careful examination.

And even the bezel and crystal can be verified 100% gen, IMO it has very little real value over modded rep parts since maybe 20 people on earth would be able to determine their genness when installed into a watch-- which is of course why they're for sale, w/ a healthy profit envisioned to be sure.

If they were offered to me, I'd figure out how much complete jimmy cases and sapphire crystal set would go for (in the unlikely event they could ever sell consistently for $200 I may consider trading mine since I have 3 each still in paper and cling wrap) and add a few bucks for the time and money saved by not having to pay, wait and ship for the next AR run. Maybe $60 or $70.

The BTR chrono uses Ebel's 137 movement (one of 4 that are produced by Ebel). This is an in-house movement, designed between 1990 and 1995 as a replacement for the Zenith El-Primeros that Ebel used previously. While many of the parts are made by Dubois-Depraz, the movement is not related to the 2894.

Unfortunately, like the 2894, there's little hope of duplicating the tight subdial spacing of these movements.

Thanks for the clarification Avitt...knowing that the ebel uses a manufacture movement makes me want to buy a gen...and want the rep even less. If would be nice if the the rep makers would split the difference and do the new Discovery Chrono pictured in this month's IW, which has the BTR design, a cool orange bezel and looks like it's powered w/ a 7750.

Wow! great info on the gens Uncle Jay, and a fabulous lead on the rep front, S.!! Threads like this are what this board is all about!!

So i've been having an email back and forth with Davidsen about his new auto and GMT models - trying to figure out which case they're using - his case, or a standard rep case...

Apparently the CGs from his manual models won't fit on these autos and GMTs, but he says that it's not a standard rep case... curious if anyone can lend some insight to this

In my experience davidsen makes his cases to fit his dials and vice versa. Unless it was my turn to take one for the team, I'd certainly wait to see if someone succeeds in combining parts before I tried it.

How do you know that you're getting a gen bezel and crystal and how is it available without the gen case? Is this allegedly coming from someone who broke up a J111?

IMO the jimmy case is the most valuable part of the trio. I doubt anyone could tell a gen bezel from a jimmy or even rep bezel, and only a very few hardcore paneristi could tell a chieftang single ARed rep sapphire crystal (worth about $60) from a gen. A jimmy case, however, is clearly different and more gen-like than a rep case.

I'm sure there are many guys here who would pay in excess of $200 for this combo. I certainly wouldn't.

Fish, other than the crown being too close to the case (I think the rep crown has no lip on the underside like the gen) it's a near perfect 61.

The title says it all...calling on PAM experts...how much should I pay for this case set?

Which bezel? Cyclops on crystal?

I have to agree with Rolli on this one. This requires someone with a lot of experience and the appropriate equipment if you are trying to match up PVD's. I would not spend a lot of money on DIY pvd.

Plus, let's face it: aside from Jack, PVD isn't that expensive. Even if you figure your time @ minimum wage, by the time you learn how to do it, you won't save much and probably won't like the result. I'll be outsourcing the PVD on my new 28 and spending my time on projects that have a reasonable chance of success.

Thank you archibald,

would you mind sharing some of your most accurate PAMS?

Sure. A few of my favs, not in order. Of course, like any PAM, reasonable mods--lume, DW, etc) are required.

PAM 24A (needs bezel polish in addition to the usual)

PAM 27A

PAM 29B

the old PAM 183 (needs the newer engraved movement swapped for the old one)

The "cartel" logo base (will be damn near 1:1 when V's CG arrives)

PAM 036

In fairness to DSN, I should say that if his dials were drop ins into "cartel" cases, some of them would be preferable to their dials. The trouble is that since davidsen doesn't want to sell a bunch of dials only, every single one I've tried needed some work to fit, and a couple couldn't be made to fit.

ASAP, and as long as I manage to find back those parts I tried... I might have thrown them away, in consideration of how bad they had come out.

Even if we find a product that blackens like PVD only half the battle is over--we'd still be left w/ the bead balsting which provides at least half the look of the final PVD.

IMO it's yet another "coulda been great but turned out about average" watch offered by davidsen. I bet he sells hundreds.

Unless you're going to be spending a lot of time with people who are watch enthusiasts (who happen to know their Panerai), I think its safe to say that it will pass as a gen to 99% of people out there It won't be questioned also because Panerai is a brand which many aren't familiar with.

That is true of all reps, and you can add .999% to the percentage of people on earth who wouldn't know a $100 asian 21J automatic PAM 005 from a gen. I always assume when people ask about specific versions they want to know about all the differences between the rep and the gen. To peepshow's list I would add that the crown is too close to the case and I bet the AR is the typical instant-tell rep AR.

look genuine is mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

The genuine is ceramic, which makes the rep a no go for me. But IMO it can only mean that the beautiful 287 is on the way!

I would say his Pre-V pieces are pretty accurate, but no DSN watch is in my personal top 10 list of most accurate PAMS.

As much as

I admire Biver for turning half-interesting design and plain stock parts into a personal gold mine, I just don't see the Big Bang thing, rep or gen.

Another nice looking watch I'm to OCD-riddled to wear. Just can't do the reps of 2894 powered watches. The subdial spacing and pusher position will bug me every time I check the time and I will live in irrational terror that I'll run into some WIS who will embarass me in public. Judging by the "What's in the pipeline" thread there are at least 3 more reps of 2894 watches coming for all who don't mind the instatells.

Mcafee is giving me a security warning for that link....

Thank god for this site! I was abut to pull the trigger on the Lange below on the bay!

Seriously, I'm with this guy in spirit, but he ought to get his homework done before he starts promoting the value of his cmparisons. Too bad the Cigar Afficionado writer didn't stumble upon Richard's site which is much better.

I think it's great that folks are happy w/ Jos and Andrew, but IMO, it's in out best interests collectors to support, at least w/ a portion of our business, Angus and other dealers not/no longer affiliated w/ the cartel.

Michael Clayton

That's what everyone says when I describe my job, but sadly it's without the exploding cars, or any drama at all actually. Just a lot of listening to people b*th about other people on the phone. Sometimes I get to go to The Palm, though.